Why are you so goddamn fat? Part Three.

28 Mar

fat

Maybe it’s just a slow news day, but glancing through the Huffington Post today (several different national editions), I’m really struck by how much conversation there is around being fat.

Fat babies!  15 lbs at birth.  Jesus.

baby

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/27/baby-george-king_n_2967517.html

Fat, pregnant reality stars!  How the hell do you fat-shame someone who is shameless?

kim

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/emma-gray/kim-kardashian-pregnancy-weight-fat-shaming_b_2951324.html

Fat woman loses +100 lbs by exercising!

danni

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/27/biggest-loser-winner-danni-weight-loss_n_2927270.html

Fat women feel better when their clothing labels suggest they are smaller than they really are!

waist

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/kinnie-starr/vanity-sizing_b_2963511.html

214 lb woman is proud of her weight and wants to look good in a bikini! (Good luck).

200

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brittany-gibbons/why-im-revealing-my-weight-on-the-internet_b_2949053.html

I’ve written before about fatness as an extension of our cultural belief that we are all special, special snowflakes to whom the rules do not apply (except that they do).

http://judgybitch.com/2012/10/23/why-are-you-so-goddamn-fat/

And I’ve tackled the fact that young women just don’t give a shit whether men find them appealing or not (they will care so much more when they’re 30).

http://judgybitch.com/2012/11/18/why-are-you-so-goddamn-fat-part-two/

I’ve also talked about the fact that fat kids are being failed by their parents, especially their mothers, who generally take care of food preparation in most homes.

http://judgybitch.com/2012/11/27/if-your-children-are-fat-you-are-failing-as-a-mother-time-to-take-some-action/

Today I want to talk about how to protect ourselves from being fat, and why it’s so important, especially for my daughters, to not be fat.

True story:  down the street from us live a couple with two very lovely daughters. The girls names really do start with A and B, so I’ll call them AGirl and BGirl.  The Dad is in great shape and not overweight in the slightest, but the Mom…oh my.  She is a good 100 lbs overweight and maybe even more.  Mom is super strong and athletic and she is always inviting me to go on insane physical activities like a four hour hike up a mountain or a six hour crossfit marathon.

bike

Gah. No thanks.  My preferred forms of exercise are walking, riding my granny bike, and to a (much, much) lesser extent, housecleaning. I’m not really a sporty kind of gal.

It comes down to the food they eat. Standing out in front of their house last summer, Mom came out and asked the kids if they wanted strawberries. Strawberries!  Yummy!

strawberries

She brought out a plate of strawberries that were coated in caramel and then dipped in chocolate and she served them with marshmallows on the side.

Good fucking god. Way to ruin a perfectly healthy snack.

Unfortunately, AGirl, who is just one year older than PinkiePie, is fat.  It’s very sad, because she is just a beautiful girl, but her beauty is increasingly being erased by her fatness. BGirl, who is one year older than LittleDude is now starting to pack on the pounds, too. By the time they are teenagers, both those girls will be obese.

fat girls

AGirl, who is 12 years old, wears ladies clothing in size 10-12 now.  She very kindly brought down a bag of size 6-8 ladies clothing that she had grown out of for Pinkie to wear – lots of hoodies and yoga pants. Well Pinkie is still wearing children’s size 8, and there is no way she can wear AGirl’s clothing without duct tape and shoe laces tying it all on her.

But guess who can?

I didn’t think through what happened next, and I deeply regret it.  When AGirl came over and saw that not only was I wearing her too small clothes, but they were actually fairly roomy on me, she was devastated.  Her face crumpled. It was really terrible.

crying

I hurt her, most unintentionally, but more importantly, being fat is hurting her.

There is an entire social movement called Fat Acceptance that is trying to carve out space in the culture for fat bodies to be loved and admired, and for those bodies that just ARE fat, that’s a laudable goal.  But the insidious underside of Fat Acceptance is teaching girls (and boys, but to a lesser extent), that’s OK to be fat, all the while ignoring the fact that their hearts are breaking when they look at their own bodies.  Fat Acceptance teaches that feeling bad about being fat is a cultural problem, not an instinctive one.  That the concept of an attractive body is entirely socially constructed, and that there are no biological imperatives that shape which bodies we find attractive and which ones we don’t.

It’s very akin to the idea that gender is socially constructed.

And both those notions are dead wrong.  Both of those ideas steer young people, who are the most impressionable, down paths that lead to self-loathing and profound unhappiness.

Men have a very strong biologically based preference for a high hip to waist ratio in women.  Even men born blind prefer a high ratio!

blind

http://www.psypost.org/2010/07/men-blind-prefer-low-waist-to-hip-ratio-women-1092

Women have a very strong preference for men with strong facial bone structure and broad shoulders, especially when they are most fertile.

rupert

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20101014/masculine-faces-keep-women-sexually-attracted

There is nothing socially constructed about those preferences.  They just are.  And even very young women like AGirl know, deep down, that they are unattractive to ever increasing numbers of men and it just kills them.

There is nothing I can do to help AGirl, except never wear her clothes again, and you can be damn sure I never will.  But I can help my own children by teaching them, most importantly, how to eat. All the exercise in the world won’t help if you don’t know how to eat properly, and one of my principal jobs as a mother is to make sure my children are healthy.  And that starts with knowing how and what to eat.

food

Another true story:  Mr.JB’s parents are in town for several weeks, and last night, the Dowager decided to serve the kids a really fun meal she had learned about from watching a television show.  Now, in all fairness to the Dowager, she thought the kids would really love it, and she is trying to reach out to me by serving what she considers really trashy food more in line with my social class.

Yes, she’s a giant fucking snob.  That’s a whole other story.

Her heart was in the right place.

Okay, so she grated some cheese, chopped up some lettuce, fried some beef with packaged taco seasoning, opened a can of refried beans and a container of store bought guacamole and then gave the kids each a bag of crushed Doritos to use as some sort of base to load up with all the toppings.  The idea is that you eat your “taco” (or whatever), directly out of the bag and hey, no dishes!

doritos

My kids were completely horrified!  They’re polite enough not to say anything to Grandma’s face, but they looked at me in astonishment.  LittleDude, hilariously, pointed out the calories and salt and sugar count on the side of the package.  Grandma was seriously annoyed.

label

And yes, I have taught my children how to read nutritional labels.  I get them to compare the amount of sugar and salt in any given item to the total calorie count.  A 28 g serving of Captain Crunch cereal has 18 g of sugar!  It’s more than 50% sugar! That is why we don’t buy it.

And I have taught them to steer away from high-fructose corn syrup.  They will read the labels on food products and see if it’s made with real sugar, because they know there isn’t much point in asking for foods loaded with HFCS.

Check out the reaction to this mom:  she put her overweight seven year old on a diet and was subjected to heaps of scorn and accusations of child abuse:

vogue

http://jezebel.com/5895602/mom-puts-7+year+old-on-a-diet-in-the-worst-vogue-article-ever

I can just imagine what Jezebel would have to say to my approach to kids and food.  You know, generally, I don’t have any rules or restrictions surrounding food. Don’t like dinner?  Find something else to eat.  I only have one rule:  don’t have shit food in your house and your kids won’t eat it!

Listen to this mom whining and crying about how she is judged because her kid is fat.  But she also admits that she keeps her house stocked with garbage.

FML-NHT-LUCY CAVENDISH5-19-3-11.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2296616/Guilt-middle-class-mother-fat-child-Lucy-Cavendishs-son-Leonard-overweight.html

At the end of the day, it is the responsibility of the ADULTS in the house to make sure their children are eating properly.  But I guess when you pay someone else to take on the majority of the responsibility for raising the children you chose to have, it’s pretty easy to just throw your hands up and decide your fat kid is someone else’s problem.

But you know whose problem it really is? The child’s.  The fat kid is the one who has to pay the price for the parents (mostly moms) failure to take ownership of her child’s plate, set some boundaries and refuse to cave in to whining and pleading.

The debate about obesity is often framed in terms of “health” and while it is undeniable that being overweight comes with a whole host of nasty physical side effects, the real pain, especially for children, is to walk through the world knowing you are unattractive. That you are ugly.  That people find you repulsive.  That every additional pound you gain means one less person who will ever desire you.

fat kid alone

Kids aren’t stupid.  They can see the hypocrisy of adults trying to tell them weight is about health, when really it’s about love.  When you let your child become fat, you are telling them, in a very real way, that you don’t love them.  And that you don’t care if anyone else loves them either.

That’s inexcusable.  My children could very well end up fat adults, but that will not be because they didn’t learn how to eat properly.  It won’t be because I acted like being fat was cute.  It won’t be because I taught them it’s all right to be fat.  It won’t be because I let them get fat when they were children and they don’t know any different.

If my kids are fat adults, it will be because they have made the choice to be.  And fat is a choice.  That’s the part of fat that needs acceptance.  If you don’t like being fat, it’s really very simple:  make different choices.

choice

It’s your body.  And your choice. Eventually, your children will make their own choices, but for now, their bodies depend on your choices too.

Make good ones.

Lots of love,

JB

98 Responses to “Why are you so goddamn fat? Part Three.”

  1. Ashley March 28, 2013 at 16:59 #

    I remember when I used to criticize the shit out of fat acceptance movement. I still don’t agree with everything they say, but over the last 3 or 4 years in reading my own research daily, they have their valid points. The truth is, body weight is primarily biological, and secondarily environmental. Human bodies do not always respond the same way to food and exercise. Some people are thin no matter how much they eat or how little they work out, and some people can eat next to nothing and still be overweight. Health and weight are two different things. Yes, weight is a factor in health, but not the only one or the main one. I’ve learned to value health over weight. Our nation suffers are lifestyle and health crisis, but everyone is so damnned focus on the number on the scale right now that they don’t even realize they are missing the mark entirely. Maybe one day they’ll get it.

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  2. Alex March 28, 2013 at 17:09 #

    the fat acceptance movement is probably why it’s so much more expensive to eat healthy. saw a video that i believe was part of a documentary about the food industry (or it could’ve been from surpersize me) where they recorded a family buying food. the father himself said that it was easier to go to a fast food place and get food than to go to the grocery store and buy some broccoli (although, now i think about it, the video might’ve been about immigration, or just poverty. probably poverty). course, they tried introducing salads to the menu, but i doubt mcdonald’s is the only place with an unhealthy salad

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  3. Wilson March 28, 2013 at 17:41 #

    Every great big fat person I have put in the well in my cellar has slimmed down nicely. Sometimes, or dare we say always, 2-1=1.

    Like

  4. zykos March 28, 2013 at 17:43 #

    Yes, part of it is genetic, but you have to ask yourself, how did we get here? There’s always been fat people, but if weight is mostly genetically inherited, how come the average weight of the population has increased over what it was a few decades ago? Is it really that fat people have more babies? I don’t think so.

    And if the argument is that whatever fat gene there is simply lay dormant during history because it couldn’t be fueled by the amount and availability of food we have now, and especially its caloric content, then that still is not a valid excuse for fat acceptance. Reduce the portions! Change from high caloric to low caloric food! Yes, it will suck, you will be hungry, but maybe that will be a good reminder of the fact most people on this planet are also hungry.

    I’ll agree with you that it’s not just a matter of the number on the scale. You can not be fat and be unhealthy, and we still don’t have a comprehensive model for how most of the chemicals interact in our bodies and affect how we process and absorb food. However, we know what works and what doesn’t work. People for whom eating well “doesn’t work” are simply people who have accustomed their bodies in a certain way for years, and now expect overnight results. Even if it’s too late for them, that doesn’t mean they should tell the younger generation, who still has time to do it right, that it’s not working, it’s not important, and they should just be happy the way they are. That’s not how the world works, and as JB remarked, someone who tells you that does not love you.

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  5. judgybitch March 28, 2013 at 17:58 #

    Chemicals are only a problem if you EAT them. There is no reason to buy taco spice in a package or to buy guacamole in a container from the store. That is just sheer laziness.

    Those things are loaded with preservatives and chemicals and salt and sugar and they are so unnecessary.

    Guacamole? Seriously? Smush an avocado with some lime juice and garlic. A tiny bit of sea salt if you like. That’s it! How long can that take?

    I don’t buy the whole “environment factors” story, either. I live in the environment, too. So why am I unaffected? Maybe because I eat almonds for a snack and drink water?

    It comes down to choice. Pure and simple. The only ones who don’t get any real choices are the kids.

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  6. EMMA March 28, 2013 at 18:16 #

    Really? A picture of a pregnant KK?

    Like

  7. Ashley March 28, 2013 at 18:25 #

    I think Americans are significantly gaining weight partly because food available everywhere is becoming more fattening and processed. As food in other countries are starting to become more Americanized, they are starting to gain weight too.

    Another thing that the fact acceptance movement has made me think about is that no one has an obligation to be thin. No one has an obligation to be healthy either. Some people choose to be fat, some people choose to smoke, drink, do drugs, and ultimately some people choose to be unhealthy and that will never change.

    I will agree that kids are more at a disadvantage, but tat can go for a list of unhealthy behaviors and lifestyle choice, food or health is just one of hundreds I can think of though.

    Like

  8. zykos March 28, 2013 at 18:44 #

    You mention people smoking, drinking, doing drugs. There’s a lot of shaming going on there, this is what has allowed us, as communities, to limit the number of dysfunctional individuals and keep the rest healthy. You have a right to ruin your health, sure, I have a right to express my opinion that what you’re doing is stupid and disgusting.

    It is about the kids, but not necessarily their kids. It’s heartbreaking, but they should be allowed to raise them however the hell they want. No, shaming is for the kids because by shaming drunks, drug addicts and obese people (and it’s pity more than anything), we are sending the message to our kids, and to people we care about at large, that we would disapprove if they took that path. That we would not like them that way, and this disapproval is our part in shaping the way they behave; it is a way to fulfill our role as educators.

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  9. Gwen March 28, 2013 at 18:55 #

    So many thoughts on this, mostly emphatically agreeing. I teach my kids that you have three voices telling you to eat – your head, your mouth, and your tummy. Your head tells you to eat out of habit, or because it’s ‘time to eat”. Your mouth tells you to eat because, “Oooh, that’s yummy! I want that!” Your tummy is the only voice that you should listen to, because that’s the one saying, “I’m hungry and I need more fuel for my body.” Sometimes we can listen to our mouths, but we have to keep control of them, like moms keep control of two year olds. They don’t know what’s good for them, so we have to enforce good behavior. It has worked very well to help them understand and they reference it frequently. “Mom, my mouth wants ice cream, and my tummy thinks it’s a good idea, too!”

    Somebody did a study years ago about variety in our food and our appetites. They found that if they gave their subjects chocolate ice cream and let them eat to satiety, the subjects would get full and not want any more ice cream. BUT, if you then gave the subjects _strawberry_ ice cream, they would experience a renewed appetite and eat strawberry ice cream until they were too full to continue. But offer them yet another flavor of ice cream and the process would start all over again. We have enormous variety in our food choices. There’s always something to get the mouth and brain going. It comes down to being self-aware and having to make the decision to walk away, even though you’d really like the yumminess on display. (Something that holds true for sex/fidelity/promiscuity, as well, come to think. There’s probably a connection there.)

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  10. judgybitch March 28, 2013 at 18:59 #

    It’s called the Coolidge Effect.

    Men can generally only have one orgasm and then they need a break to recover. But that only applies if it’s the SAME woman.

    Bring a new woman, and he can get an erection and have a second orgasm.

    There must be some limit to the effect, but I’ll leave it to someone else to explore that.

    😛

    Like

  11. judgybitch March 28, 2013 at 19:03 #

    She’s not just pregnant. She’s pregnant and fat. Being pregnant is a dangerous time to get really fat because it’s bad for the baby, and it’s so damn hard to lose.

    Says the woman who gained 60-70 lbs all three times I was pregnant!

    And trust me, it didn’t just “fall off”. It took a lot of effort. Which failed to stop me from gaining the same amount with the other pregnancies.

    On the other hand, I gained the weight eating walnuts and avocados and whole grain carbs. Not donuts and cheetos.

    God it was great.

    Like

  12. judgybitch March 28, 2013 at 19:03 #

    lol

    Like

  13. sqt March 28, 2013 at 19:03 #

    I honestly don’t understand how parents can let their kids be so fat. My kids are naturally skinny. They don’t want to eat massive quantities of food- much like my brothers and I were as kids. My daughter is almost 13 and already 5’5″– and she’s a size 0 because that’s her natural body type. Sure, she’ll fill out as she gets older but I doubt she’ll be any bigger than me (I’m 5’9″ and a size 6). I’m at the age where I have to work to keep my weight down, but it’s not rocket science. Limiting processed food is pretty much all I have to do…

    I used to resent that my mom was always on me about my weight. It was somewhat unfair because I was never fat (she definitely pushed me to be on the skeletal side) but she did understand that society will judge us based on our appearance. Like it or not that’s the way life is.

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  14. GrimGhost March 28, 2013 at 19:05 #

    In March 1987, I was the second-fattest person in an office of 160 people. The fattest guy was morbidly obese; when he stood with heels together, he was shaped like a football.

    In March 1987, I was fat and getting fatter. One day, I discovered that my pants were getting tight. I was dismayed that I’d have to buy a complete set of 2 inch-wider-waistband pants.

    But then I thought, “No. This stops now. I’m doing something about this.” That evening, when I got home from work, I changed into what passed for exercise clothing, and I ran around the block.

    Do you know how humiliating it is to run a quarter-mile when you’re fat and out of shape? I looked ridiculous, and at the end of this paltry distance, my windpipe felt like someone had jammed a toilet brush down it.

    But I didn’t quit until I could go no farther.

    Then the next night after work, I ran again.

    Meanwhile, I had cut out snacks, cut out seconds, and cut out desserts.

    Three weeks after I started diet and exercising, I noticed that my pants were roomier around my butt. I still looked fat, but now I was encouraged. By now I was exercising like a fiend after work.

    Fourteen months after I started exercising and dieting, I wasn’t fat anymore. I entered a 5K race, came in third, and I still have the (cheapo) medal hanging from my rear-view mirror.

    =====

    I have nothing but scorn for the “fat acceptance” movement. Their claims, and my replies–

    1) “Fat people are discriminated against, like women and blacks.”

    No, fatties are discriminated-against like child molesters and armed robbers.

    Being fat is the result of choices you make — at the grocery store, at the pantry, and at the refrigerator. Being fat also is choosing not to exercise. You don’t choose to be black or be female, but a dozen times or more a day, a fat person chooses to get fat or to stay fat.

    In 1986, I was fat because of choices I made. In March 1987, I made new choices. In 1988, I was no longer fat.

    A man who is rich because he robs banks doesn’t deserve to be treated the same as Sam Walton, who made his money from hard work and cleverness; why does a fattie think she’s entitled to the same social rewards as a fitness instructor?

    2) “I have a fat gene.”

    Guess what, sweetheart — maybe I do too. SO %$#@ING WHAT? Only children (and childish adults) stop doing something (say, diet and exercise) because it’s “hard.”

    3) “Dislike of fatness is socially constructed.”

    Only in the sense that women of Rubenesque proportions were considered babes centuries ago, instead of being thought disgusting. But fat women were considered beautiful back then because only rich women could get really fat. Ditto, pale skin. Ditto, long fingernails (in China). Peasant women back then were slimmer, tanned, and had short fingernails, by necessity; so “beauty” was defined as any quality that a peasant woman could never have.

    But as JB argues, men preferring slim women who have hourglass figures, this is biologically based. And wisely so.

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  15. sqt March 28, 2013 at 19:09 #

    I won’t lie, I took it for granted that I could lose the weight easily when pregnant (never had a weight problem prior) so I ate like crap. I gained about 45lbs per pregnancy, which isn’t awful at my height, but it was sooooo hard to get the weight off. I don’t eat like that anymore…

    Like

  16. Unscrupulous Men (@Unscrupulousmen) March 28, 2013 at 19:44 #

    Yep, calories COUNT above and beyond everything else. No matter your exercise habits, no matter the macronutrient composition of the diet, no matter the meal frequency, no matter the eating style (paleo, vegetarian, VLC, ect), everything is at least secondary to the amount of calories consumed. It is really that simple. If you eat above caloric maintenance, you’ll grow; eat below it, you shrink. Eat whatever the hell you want, while sitting on the couch in front of glaring TV and it’s guaranteed you’ll turn into a fatass.

    Like

  17. Leap of a Beta March 28, 2013 at 19:50 #

    Sounds like an excuse.

    Yes, everyones body responds differently. But with the information on the Internet you can easily, EASILY find reliable information on how to shape any body type with various exercises and diets. Heck, half of it is knowing the exercises and then half is knowing how to properly do them (amount of weight, reps, rest time, etc). You can’t change your bone structure, but its readily apparent if you take care of yourself. And while not everyone can be an 8 or 9, I’ve yet to meet any man or woman that couldn’t make a 5 if they put in 3-4 gym trips a week.

    The health vs weight thing also is used as an excuse too often. Yes, its a factor. So is smoking, alcoholism, and everything else. There are healthier smokers than non-smokers and healthier fat people than non-fat people. What such claims ignore is that being fat ties in with almost every major physical and mental issue. Especially as one ages. So while it is technically ‘a factor’ it is the most important factor by such a wide margin that it could nearly be ‘the factor’.

    Yes, people shouldnt focus on the number on the scale. Instead they should focus on their body fat percentage and how to get their body looking the best it can.

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  18. Kai March 28, 2013 at 20:00 #

    Even when fat was considered attractive because it was rich, the rich women that men liked were the ones with the right waist-to-hip ratio. That doesn’t change, even as the exact measurements do.

    Like

  19. Kai March 28, 2013 at 20:06 #

    Not every person can have a 25-inch waist.
    But that doesn’t mean anyone is doomed to a 55-inch one.
    Yes, there are natural variances. People carry weight well, and are healthiest at different weights. People today take that to an extreme in suggesting that it’s ever healthy or ‘just biology’ to be 300lbs.

    Plus, the adults who have real trouble with weight control are often the ones who have so completely screwed up their body systems that the best they can possibly hope for is to be ‘a little fat’, rather than morbidly obese. Which makes it all the more important to feed children well, and keep their weight at a reasonable amount to set them up for the rest of their lives.

    Think back to when you were a child. I distinctly remember ‘the fat girl’ in my grade 4 class. There was just one, and she was notably fatter than any other girl. I have a photo of her. She wouldn’t stand out in a classroom today. She’s still fat – that hasn’t changed. But she’d be pretty average in a class of 2013 10-year-olds.
    If it were truly biology, it wouldn’t have changed so quickly.

    Like

  20. Kai March 28, 2013 at 20:11 #

    How you eat determines what size you are. How you exercise determines what that size looks like.
    For most people, if they just ate reasonable portions, and moved a bit, they’d be at a reasonably healthy weight, and putting in real effort could take them up from there.

    Like

  21. Ashley March 28, 2013 at 20:58 #

    Why should they have to if they don’t want to, is the question I’m asking. What is it to you if a woman doesn’t want to conform to the standards of beauty? I can predict a “Well, she can look which ever way she wants but she shouldn’t whine when men aren’t looking her way because she’s fat.”

    Like

  22. judgybitch March 28, 2013 at 21:04 #

    This is exactly the point, Ashley.

    You are free to look however you want, but there is something deeply fucked up about complaining when no one finds you attractive. You can’t demand the standards of attractiveness change, because they are rooted in some very deep biology.

    It’s not fair to do that to kids. If you choose to be deliberately unattractive, well, have fun.

    But it’s awful to see children who are being made unattractive against their will.

    Like

  23. Ashley March 28, 2013 at 21:08 #

    If it’s biology that determines that men find thin women attractive, why have fatter women been preferred in cultures throughout history?

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  24. judgybitch March 28, 2013 at 21:11 #

    Biology determines that men find a high hip to waist ratio attractive.

    Weight is irrelevant as long as that ratio is there.

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  25. Ashley March 28, 2013 at 21:17 #

    Would you then say there’s a genetic flaw in the people that find rotund women more attractive?

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  26. GrimGhost March 28, 2013 at 21:26 #

    You want to be fat, be my guest. If your fashion heroine is Andrea Dworkin, “it’s a free country.” But if a guy sleeps in a cardboard box under the overpass, is he entitled to complain when no woman will boink him? Is he “entitled” to social acceptance when he’s a bum?

    Like

  27. judgybitch March 28, 2013 at 21:31 #

    If by rotund you mean someone with no discernible waist, then yes.

    A high hip to waist ratio predicts successful reproduction (which is why it’s attractive in the first place), so preferring a characteristic that is not correlated with reproductive success is by definition, a genetic flaw.

    You’re preferring something that is less likely to result in your genes being successfully perpetuated.

    Obviously, it’s not that stupidly simple. Clearly, a lovely, caring person built like a brick shit house will be preferred over a bitchy, selfish hourglass by many men (the intelligent ones, anyways).

    But in general, our sense of what is attractive correlates strongly with reproductive success.

    Like

  28. GrimGhost March 28, 2013 at 21:32 #

    Your argument is irrelevant, unless a) you have a time machine; and b) you’re prepared to use that time machine to give up a 2013 lifestyle.

    More to the point, I flat-out question your statement. I know of only one period of European history when fatties were considered beautiful.

    Like

  29. Leap of a Beta March 28, 2013 at 22:04 #

    To answer your question without the most apparant of answers that even you could answer your own question; here are some other ones!

    If someone is fat, male or female (and I wasn’t even gender specific in my post, so I personally will continue not to be, because fat men are repulsive and engender a lack of respect from me as well) and they ‘want to be fat’ they should be ok with the following:

    Higher cost of health insurance due to increased likelihood that they will run into numerous physical health issues at higher rates than people who are not fat. Including higher costs if their health insurance covers mental health as they’re proven to be more depressed, suicidal, and a few others. People in shape shouldn’t have to foot the larger bill for larger people.

    Higher cost of transportation. Buses and planes have to use more fuel to move fat people around, as well as it’s getting to the point where some people should just buy two seats. Because one seat can’t contain all that awesomeness!

    Less hourly pay for anything requiring physical labor. Ever see how long it takes a 250 lb obese man to restock a shelf? In my young days of working retail I know I have and thought it was silly that I got paid the same. Fit people can work faster for longer.

    Different prices on clothes. Actually, nevermind. I could care less. I’ve never seen people I’d consider obese buy good, professional clothing, so they’re not affecting prices besides other people that shop at wal-mart and kohls or online for those extra extra extra plus large sizes.

    There. Three things off the top of my head fat people also need to be ok with. Besides, you know, having a harder time finding someone who will love them. Sorry but staying fit and healthy is a big part of many people’s lives if they’re fit and healthy, to say nothing of sexual attraction. I wouldn’t dream of getting in a committed relationship with someone who didn’t go to the gym, even if she was attractive when I started dating her. And I wouldn’t marry a woman that didn’t know a full rotation of healthy meals she’d be able to serve me and any kids. Because feminism and divorce laws have made it so that the only reason I’d ever consider marriage was to have kids, you’re damn straight I’d be putting ‘home and child rearing skills’ at the top of any list for a wife, right under ‘sexually attractive, skilled, and faithful’

    Like

  30. Z March 28, 2013 at 22:23 #

    re: expensive to eat healthy… here is the part of the argument I think gets left out… Even though it may “look” more expensive to eat healthy, the way most healthy food is packaged (i.e. the quantity of it you get… like in a bunch of bananas, or a bag of oranges, or one of those packs with 6 individually sealed chicken breasts… or whatever)… that food goes FURTHER than most junk food.

    When I started making a menu for the whole week where I was planning ALL meals and snacks, not just dinner, I found that I was spending less and buying less that went further.

    Maybe other people’s mileage varies, but that’s my mileage. So I always get confused when people say junk food is cheaper. Maybe, but you have to buy more of it, it doesn’t go as far, and because the food is so low quality it takes more to fill you up. Take a box of cheez its and some high quality protein and tell me which fills you up faster. There are a lot of factors that go into all of that that isn’t necessarily about surface cost assumptions.

    Like

  31. Z March 28, 2013 at 22:30 #

    The thing you’re not realizing here is how much people overestimate their exercise/activity and underestimate their calories in. Most studies on diet and weight are based on self-reporting which are extremely unhelpful studies. The studies where people are kept in a lab of some sort and their food is measured and tightly controlled and their exercise is measured… lose weight. Every time.

    It’s why every single person on The Biggest Loser drops massive amounts of weight. Despite the fact that they should be these people you’re talking about who can’t lose weight if that were true and not just denial/nonsense.

    Some people do have damaged metabolisms… mostly from yo-yo dieting. But that is a damaged metabolism… not a genetic defect, and there are ways to heal metabolism. But crap like “set point” and all this other fat acceptance nonsense is just denial.

    Fat acceptance is like if you take a group of alcoholics and let them define their level of trouble with alcohol. Of course you will get denial.

    Also, your arguments ignore the fact that 100 years ago there was a lot less fatness. That can’t all be genetic. That’s lifestyle and changes to the food supply.

    It’s true the number on the scale may not tell the whole story, but that’s only for athletes with so much muscle and so little fat that the number makes them look fatter than they are. For everybody else… they should pay attention to the number on the scale.

    Like

  32. LJBiFed! March 28, 2013 at 22:46 #

    Kim K. is not fat, just pregnant. She’ll get back to her curvy self within 6 months of delivery.

    Like

  33. LJBiFed! March 28, 2013 at 22:49 #

    Ha! I read this

    http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20101014/masculine-faces-keep-women-sexually-attracted

    as masculine-faces-keep-women-sexually-attractIVE

    ……which when you think about it, may be right.

    I mean, the more attractive men there are in a population, the higher likelihood of their being more attractive women, right?

    Like

  34. Mark March 28, 2013 at 23:38 #

    I just read the Wikipedia article on it to see if it was really named after Calvin Coolidge, and found this explanatory passage:

    “The President and Mrs. Coolidge were being shown [separately] around an experimental government farm. When [Mrs. Coolidge] came to the chicken yard she noticed that a rooster was mating very frequently. She asked the attendant how often that happened and was told, “Dozens of times each day.” Mrs. Coolidge said, “Tell that to the President when he comes by.” Upon being told, President asked, “Same hen every time?” The reply was, “Oh, no, Mr. President, a different hen every time.” President: “Tell that to Mrs. Coolidge.”

    Great comeback Calvin. I had no opinion of President Coolidge before, but I think I like him now.

    Like

  35. Mark March 28, 2013 at 23:59 #

    There’s an idea called the ‘social contagion of obesity’ (look up Nicholas Christakis on wikipedia for more info) which is basically the view, based on some evidence that how much weight a person gains over a period of time tends to correlate with the weight gain of people they associate with.

    The hypothesis has some faults (I wrote a college paper criticizing it a while ago) but the reason explaining the phenomenon was interesting: basically, people get fatter when they perceive that is is more socially acceptable to be fat, which happens when they perceive people around them getting fatter.

    This would have implications for the fat acceptance movement, as it means that making obesity more socially acceptable would reduce the general public’s inhibitions about gaining weight.

    The question is, how to properly ‘shame’ unhealthy behavior so as to socially deter it without driving obese people (especially children, given how surprisingly ruthless kids can be) to depression and suicide.

    Like

  36. LJBiFed! March 29, 2013 at 00:40 #

    Ejaculation and orgasm are two different things.

    Men are also capable of multiple orgasms. These are learnable skills.

    Like

  37. Emma the Emo March 29, 2013 at 02:39 #

    I used to like the fat acceptance movement, because I generally am for leaving fat people alone. If it’s about bullying, of course I’d be with that movement. But unfortunately you’re right. It seems to have a bad vibe about it. Like people gave up trying to lose weight and decided to turn a flaw into a badge of honor. Not true acceptance. But regardless, if I was in the FA movement, I’d be one of those who really means it 🙂 Fat is sexy to me and I wouldn’t mind being slightly fat myself.

    Like

  38. TMG March 29, 2013 at 03:46 #

    I don’t believe in fat acceptance either but I am about 30 pounds overweight, look much more overweight than that, and can’t lose a pound and this is despite the fact that I run/walk/hike 20 miles a week, lift weights, and eat around 2,000-2,250 calories of reasonably healthy food a day.

    I look at skinny people who eat more/work out less than me and I want to choke them with something.

    Like

  39. LJBiFed! March 29, 2013 at 05:29 #

    ” She is a good 100 lbs overweight and maybe even more. Mom is super strong and athletic and she is always inviting me to go on insane physical activities like a four hour hike up a mountain or a six hour crossfit marathon.”

    Is it common to be so obese and yet super strong, athletic and able to do all that?

    I guess that could be an argument for “fat doesn’t necessarily mean un-healthy”.

    Like

  40. Marlo Rocci March 29, 2013 at 12:56 #

    It’s really like an off/on switch with me. I either find a woman attractive in the first two seconds I see her, or I never will, regardless of whatever she says, her accomplishments or whatever. It just won’t happen. It’s always been clear to me that this is an instinctive reaction and not one I was socialized to follow.

    Like

  41. greeneyedjan March 29, 2013 at 13:37 #

    Go Paleo. Marksdailyapple.com

    Will. Change. your. life.

    And really, its not calories total, but type. I eat a pound of meat a day. Easily 2500 + calories. Full fat cream in my coffee. Dark chocolate. Kalamata olives or nuts for a snack. Red wine. Super nutrient dense

    What I dont eat: Anything form a box. White bread. Bread period. Grains. HFCS. Anything that isnt the original food- taco mix is not a good. Meat ( all cooked in 100 percent grass fed butter or coconut oil , delicious and SO good for you )fruit, and nuts are food.

    And Soda of any kind. Liquid poison.

    I work out three times per week for 30 minutes. Heavy weights as I can life, kettlebells, and walking.

    5;’5″- 128 lbs. Im certainly not a supermodel, but this stuff WORKS.

    Like

  42. Liz March 29, 2013 at 13:45 #

    Ever run a marathon? There are a LOT of fatties, and many of them make good time…always amazed to find you really can’t tell by looking at someone how they will perform in a marathon (aside from the Kenyans and professional runners, that is).

    Like

  43. Liz March 29, 2013 at 13:50 #

    She gained an enormous amount of weight during just the first 5 months of pregnancy.
    For a first pregnancy in particular (subsequent pregnancies your body gets a belly quickly, though actual weight gain should remain the same), that is FAT not pregnant. Now she is both pregnant and fat, with many months to go.

    Like

  44. Liz March 29, 2013 at 13:58 #

    At the hospital we had actual cranes to move people because they are so large now. I’d say we needed to use them on about one out of every three patients. In the airlines, people will have trouble fitting through the door of the airplane and then cry and call foul when then can’t fit into one seat. It’s always the same claim, “This never happened to me before! I want to talk to the manager!” it’s awful for the personel who are required to confront the individual in the first place. Why are you they so goddamn fat indeed? I think there’s a line a person crosses where they simply go over it and decide they don’t care and live just to eat after that.

    Like

  45. Z March 29, 2013 at 14:05 #

    This is true. I do think calories count, but macronutrient ratios matter a lot. There was a study (one of the controlled studies where they measured and tightly controlled food portions in a lab) for weight loss. They put everybody on the same calorie weight loss diet, but varied the macronutrients. Those on a mostly carb diet didn’t lose any weight. (But because their calories were below maintenance they didn’t gain either, or at least most didn’t. A few actually might have). Those on mostly protein lost weight. The surprise was that those on mostly fat (healthy fat not trans fat or veggie oils… except olive), lost the most weight. Lesson? Fat is your friend. Carbs are your enemy. And protein is really important. But… calories still count.

    And I’ve also found that minimal exercise but EFFECTIVE exercise is all that’s necessary. I’m doing the Jillian Michael’s body revolution. It’s 30 minutes 4 times a week. (it’s a split routine.)

    Like

  46. Z March 29, 2013 at 14:11 #

    Have you had your thyroid checked? No one is saying there aren’t some legit medical issues. If you have a thyroid problem and get that under control… the weight should come off. Also, are you measuring/weighing your portions? Do you KNOW for a fact the number of calories you’re eating? Almost everybody underestimates. If you are “off” on that count, no matter how much exercise you do, you may be sabotaging. Likewise people overestimate the number of calories they are burning with exercise. None of what I’m saying is meant to be blaming or offensive. I just figure if you are doing ALL THAT work you should have it work for you. I’m not sure if you are male or female but an imbalance of your reproductive hormones and PCOS can also create weight loss difficulties. That would be the next thing to check if it isn’t thyroid.

    Bottom line… you aren’t a magical unicorn. It’s either a case of under/over reporting things, or a case of a genuine thing, most likely hormones. Thyroid, female hormones, or also insulin. If you’ve got a problem with your blood sugar, it can make it so your cells pretty much refuse to release their fat. In that case you can try your workouts first thing in the morning on an empty stomach when insulin is lowest to kickstart it.

    Hope something here helps! (Unless you are happy with your weight, in which case, ignore all this lol. This is just for if you aren’t happy with it and if you might not have tried one of these things.)

    Like

  47. TMG March 29, 2013 at 14:32 #

    I had a battery of tests a year ago and my thyroid/blood sugar/insulin are not perfect but they fall in the normal range. I track all the food I eat on a smartphone app. I will look into your other suggestions. I am male. Thanks 😉

    Like

  48. Scratch March 29, 2013 at 16:14 #

    I don’t understand why ANYONE thinks it’s more expensive to eat healthy than to eat fast food. That’s such bullshit! A can of wild salmon is two dollars! A roasted chicken is six dollars! Stalks of broccoli are 3/$1! A goddamn fast food meal is going to run at least $5/person!

    Like

  49. sqt March 29, 2013 at 16:20 #

    I don’t follow a perfect MDA diet- but pretty close. And yes, it definitely works.

    Like

  50. Alex March 29, 2013 at 16:36 #

    generally among the less well off families. when you can get your kids dinner off the dollar menu, why try to break the bank eating healthy?

    Like

  51. Ashley March 29, 2013 at 16:50 #

    Look. Shit is the way it is. You can “you should” all you want, you aren’t going to change fat people or feminism, whether you like it or not.

    Like

  52. Ashley March 29, 2013 at 16:58 #

    Just like fat acceptance isn’t going to change who men are attracted to, which is one of the things I have tried to tell them, why would you attempt something like criticizing feminism and fat people for trying to change people and then turn right around and do the exact same thing? It’s high time someone pointed this out by now.

    Like

  53. Ashley March 29, 2013 at 17:04 #

    “they should pay attention to the number on the scale.”

    What they should or should not do is up to them only.

    Like

  54. LJBiFed! March 29, 2013 at 17:28 #

    Yeah, this is common for curvy women, or thick (not fat) and voluptuous women. Like that red head everyone was crazy for – from Mad Men? If she were to get preggers she’s probably blow up too. I’ve noticed this is common amongst that body type. Same with Beyonce too, right?

    Like

  55. LJBiFed! March 29, 2013 at 17:33 #

    When I did Dr. Douglas Graham’s 80/10/10 version of raw vegan diet I could eat as many calories a day that I wanted and still lost weight. Amazing energy levels and overall the best I ever felt in my life.

    Like

  56. Wilson March 29, 2013 at 17:40 #

    2300 calories could be close to maintenance-level intake depending on height and age. Obviously it is for you. Going to have to eat less. Yeah, easier said than done, but unless you are peeing blood….

    Like

  57. Liz March 29, 2013 at 18:31 #

    I’m sure you are right. It must suck to be in the public eye all of the time.

    Like

  58. Liz March 29, 2013 at 18:37 #

    ” I know of only one period of European history when fatties were considered beautiful.”

    Probably during a famine. Like some places in Africa where they will trade many cows for a thick woman. Low metabolism is a boon if you’re looking to find a wife in an environment where access to adequate food isn’t a foregone conclusion.

    Like

  59. Richard Olsen March 29, 2013 at 18:40 #

    I have to say, I agree with you as far as fat caused by diet. However, you have to look at the bigger picture. There are many reasons why people are fat.
    I was a fat child and am a fat adult. My mother was fat, my sisters (all four of them) are fat.
    Obesity is a complex issue for some. You shouldn’t just go around assuming that every fat adult, or every fat child, is fat simply because their parents don’t love them enough and/or feed them appropriate food.
    There are genetic (yes, there are really genetic) factors associated with the weight of a person. Just as there are genetic factors associated with height, hair colour, eye colour and skin colour. There can also be health reasons for obesity. For adult women, one of these could be Polycystic ovary syndrome, which in itself has been suggested to be genetic.

    This is why society is screwed up when it comes to judging people by the way they look. This is why it’s dangerous to assume that someone is fat because they’re eating too many hamburgers. It’s also just cruel and it also shows you as a sadistic bastard with no ability to empathise with another human beings position, or to even understand their situation.

    Yes, quite a lot of obesity is just about eating the wrong foods. However, what do you say to someone who eats all the right foods, but is still obese?

    Society needs to spend less time competing with each other to be thinnest in the world, and accept that people do come in different shapes and sizes. Then, once we accept that, we can start working on root causes of obesity, such as eating disorders, depression, poor diet, self-esteem issues, genetic disorders and other health problems.

    Like

  60. Kai March 29, 2013 at 19:01 #

    Well, let’s note that the biggest loser is a recipe for disaster. If that were to be a true competition, they should be judged by who still has the most weight off two years later. Because the vast majority of the contestants gain it all right back. Losing weight in an all-exercise-all-the-time situation isn’t helpful when they have to go back to their normal lives and their pre-existing issues.
    Anyone can drop massive amounts of weight on a starvation diet with nothing to do with their time but exercise, but it does take more work to lose weight sustainably.

    Like

  61. Kai March 29, 2013 at 19:02 #

    People judge themselves by their peers. If everyone you know is morbidly obese, overweight looks pretty good.

    Like

  62. Leap of a Beta March 29, 2013 at 19:06 #

    Ashley, I have no desire to take away people’s freedom to be fat.

    What I want is to stop having to pay for it. Just as I want to stop having to pay for social security, medicare, and upcoming obamacare. I don’t want to pay for other people’s decisions.

    Because right now I do. As I speak I’m about to have to go in and repair a couch for a show I’m working on here in Chicago. I have to do so because the 300 pound stage manager sat on it in the exact spot she shouldn’t have when she shouldn’t have been using the furniture at all. I told the actors and director what weights I knew it was ok with bearing and how it could be treated. I do this with every piece of the set now, because inevitably the fat actor on stage will use furniture how it’s not meant to be used by skinny people, let alone by fat ones.

    I know schools that are having issues because their chairs are breaking under the weight of obese kids that weigh more than I do. To make new ones weight bearing for kids that age and size is prohibitively expensive and stretches our public education budget when it’s already under a large deal of stress. I know this because my best friend here in the city’s wife is the one that sells the chairs to schools and gets complaints. She’s the one that has to tell them that they need to buy more expensive chairs and deal with them telling her they can’t afford it.

    Then parents turn around and blaim the school. The teachers. Society.

    Instead of blaiming themselves for keeping sugary baked goods within reach of kids who haven’t been taught an iota of self control.

    I have no problem with fat people. I have problems with people who foist their issues off on society to deal with instead of walking a mile or two a day and not putting that second or third donut in their mouth, let alone having something healthy instead of the first donut to begin with.

    Like

  63. MaMu1977 March 29, 2013 at 19:11 #

    One question, then: where are the fat African refugees, the type that live in armed camps and eat three meals of calorie-laden grains a day? If obesity (or even fat-based overweightness) was inevitable, then obesity would exist at all ends of the diet scale (and not just in physical activity-deficient, junk food-filled cultures.)

    Like

  64. Kai March 29, 2013 at 19:13 #

    And yes, there are some genetic flaws.
    Some people lack the desire to reproduce. Obviously, given that that is the natural drive of any animal, it is a less-selected-for trait, as people who don’t want to reproduce often don’t, and don’t pass on their genes. Doesn’t stop it from popping up, but it does make it not a majority.
    Historically, the odd man who preferred a truly toothpick-y woman, or the one who preferred a single-curve woman (out in the middle) would have selected one less likely to be able to bear children and pass on their genes. It too does not mean that won’t keep popping up, but there are logical reasons for the majority opinion.

    Like

  65. Kai March 29, 2013 at 19:20 #

    Simpler than the food, change your exercise routine (without adding to your food intake). what kind of weights are you lifting? If they’re not heavy, you’re doing yourself basically no useful exercise.

    Running, walking, and hiking long distances do basically nothing for losing weight. The more you do it, the more efficient your body becomes at it, and the less calories you burn. Go out of a 1 hour run, and you’ll probably come back hungry enough to eat three times the calories you burned while out. I’m a big hiker myself, and I’m not saying don’t do it if you enjoy it, but don’t expect distance work to do anything for weight loss.

    Change up your run days to hills and sprint programs to work power. Make sure your lifting program is full-body weights (no machines), and heavy weights with low reps.
    That, with the sprints, will get your metabolism going and burn calories. Distance will not.

    Like

  66. Kai March 29, 2013 at 19:23 #

    Genetics will make someone overweight. Being a person who eats and exercises well, and is healthy at 20lbs overweight is not going to be a big problem. Heck, today, 20lbs overweight puts you in a pretty good percentile.

    But no-one gets to 300lbs by genetics alone.

    Like

  67. greeneyedjan March 29, 2013 at 19:24 #

    Amen. Its only after I bagged the “chronic cardio” and went full on with the weights, kettle bells, and tabata sprints that things changed. When I see all these people on treadmills I just want to go up to them and say” you can get off this thing, you know….” Truth is though, 80 percent of how you look IS determined by how you eat. Exercise is just icing on the ( flourless chocolate:) cake

    Like

  68. GrimGhost March 29, 2013 at 21:58 #

    I’m curious, Ashley, do you flip that? Do you tell fat people and feminists, “well, men are going to criticize you, and for some good reasons, so you have no right to try to change their attitudes and behaviors?”

    Also, your statement assumes that both sides are equally “right” — but somehow men are less “right.” Nonsense. “Fat Acceptance” has no more valid arguments than if I came up with a “movement” of unshaved, unshowered men called “Slob Acceptance.” As for feminism, I haven’t agreed with them since the feminists stole all the bicycles from all those poor fish.

    Like

  69. Liz March 29, 2013 at 23:13 #

    My sister-in-law has always had a weight problem. A few years back she wanted to enter the navy, but the cutoff for her weight at her height was (if memory serves) something like 195 pounds and she weighed 205. She ate nothing but cabbage soup for a week and barely passed the weigh-in. Then, she went to basic training. About eight weeks later she was unrecognizable…a size six. She’d lost about 45 pounds.

    Two years later she was a size ten, another two she was basically back to her old weight.

    Like

  70. Kai March 29, 2013 at 23:59 #

    And?
    It’s well-known that the faster you lose weight, the faster you will gain it back, as it blows up your metabolism, and crazy diets (like nothing but cabbage soup) make it really hard to eat properly afterwards (especially as your body is now trying desperately to conserve every single calorie it can.)
    That doesn’t mean your sister *couldn’t*, if motivated, lose the weight properly and then keep it off.

    Like

  71. Kai March 30, 2013 at 00:04 #

    How you eat determines how much you will weigh.
    How you exercise determines how you will look at that weight.

    In studies, when people are told to exercise more, and no other changes are prescribed, they don’t tend to lose weight, as they eat more because they are hungrier.
    But losing piles of weight based on proper eating alone will leave you small, but soft and weak.
    Eat properly to get to a decent weight for your body, and exercise hard to make that weight in a solid, attractive shape.

    There are many benefits to steady-state cardio, but weight loss is NOT one of them.
    Not to mention the problem of people who go for a 30min run, drink a bottle of gatorade over the course of it, and then eat a powerbar afterwards… The gatorade alone made your run useless, and you’re gaining weight out of it by adding a meal.

    Like

  72. LJBiFed! March 30, 2013 at 03:35 #

    I never understood the treadmill thing. I mean, why not go for walks and jogs outside in nature and get some sunshine? It makes sense in the dead of winter, but for the rest of the year – GET OUTDOORS!

    Like

  73. LJBiFed! March 30, 2013 at 03:37 #

    ” Stalks of broccoli are 3/$1!”

    They are? Where?

    Like

  74. LJBiFed! March 30, 2013 at 03:46 #

    “Chemicals are only a problem if you EAT them.”

    And apply them to your skin and hair.

    With regard to healthy snacking on almonds, even some completely raw vegans who eat no grains and no cooked food are a little bit heavy because of eating a lot of fat in the form of nuts, avacados and coconuts.

    Like

  75. LJBiFed! March 30, 2013 at 03:48 #

    “Another thing that the fact acceptance movement has made me think about is that no one has an obligation to be thin. ”

    Agreed. I’ve seen a lot of complaints in the Manosphere that the increasing fatness of Americans infringes upon their “eye candy rights”.

    They are mad because the same women that are obese now could be thin and providing them with eye candy to look at.

    Like

  76. LJBiFed! March 30, 2013 at 03:50 #

    “You are free to look however you want, but there is something deeply fucked up about complaining when no one finds you attractive. ”

    I’ve not seen this complaint on the fat acceptance sites. Basically they are not asking to be flirted with, they are asking to be not made fun of.

    On the other hand I have seen much complaint in the Manosphere that fat women are not providing the with eye candy and that they should lose weight so that when men go out in public they have thin women to look at.

    Like

  77. LJBiFed! March 30, 2013 at 03:57 #

    Plus, Rubenesque women were not that fat.

    Like

  78. Rod Van Mechelen March 30, 2013 at 05:36 #

    In Fat Is a Feminist Issue, Susie Orbach extolled the virtues of being a lard bucket and it was a bestseller that’s still in print more than 30 years after it was first published. That’s an insane mentality, and I’m delighted to see an article like this that confronts it. Primal diet, astaxanthin (12mg a day), walk, light exercise, the pounds will melt away.

    Like

  79. sqt March 30, 2013 at 06:51 #

    I found my way to the Paleo lifestyle after I was diagnosed with a genetic condition that was causing me awful pain. I had done the chronic cardio for years not knowing that my body was unable to handle the strain- long story short, I’m an arthritic mess and can’t exercise without pain. Diet is everything as far as keeping my pain in check (no grains) and staying a healthy weight.

    Like

  80. princesspixiepointless March 30, 2013 at 07:08 #

    Hey, no calling each other ‘tards, fuckwits or asshats’ not in our comment section. We have people at home that can do that for us, thanks.

    Like

  81. Liz March 30, 2013 at 12:18 #

    That was my intended point.
    If she could lose 45 pounds in eight weeks of boot camp it obviously wasn’t a problem with her glands. People of normal weight don’t lose that much in boot camp. Sometimes really skinny people gain weight in boot camp (it isn’t a low calorie menu, quite the contrary).

    Like

  82. MaMu1977 March 30, 2013 at 23:14 #

    You walk for 20 miles a week, plus lift weights, but you can’t get rid of 30 lb. extra weight? Unless your body fat ratio is over 20%, you don’t have a problem. Muscle weighs more than fat and you sound like the type of person who does a lot of body bulking activity.

    Like

  83. Scratch March 31, 2013 at 23:59 #

    I work in the produce dept. of a grocery store in western Canada. This week, we have 3 bunches of broccoli on sale for a dollar. True story.

    Like

  84. Clover April 2, 2013 at 09:16 #

    Chipping in late, it’s not just about feeding your kids right, but what you do during pregnancy. Lots of fat women have underactive thyroids, and being hypothyroidal results in the child developing with a lower IQ. I think it’s awful that women are so selfish as to risk their child’s wellbeing just because they want to eat cake.
    Sadly though, lots of people are ill informed about how to control their food intake, and their food choices actually make them hungrier – your body will demand a minimum amount of nutrients, and if you eat things with calories but no vitamins and minerals, your body will insist you keep eating even if you’re full, because it needs those building blocks to keep functioning. If people just ate real foods with proper nutrition, rather than sugar and baked crap, we wouldn’t have such an issue with obesity, but misinformation and convenience foods lead poorly educated folks to eat badly and then they end up fat even if they’re trying not to!

    Like

  85. Clover April 2, 2013 at 09:28 #

    Please though, don’t suggest people do that to their children. I know his family, and his daughter is a pitiful thing. She’s not fat, but she’s got barely any teeth left, and she looks seriously stunted. As an adult trying to lose weight your body might be able to handle a diet like that, but something so extreme for a child is dangerous.

    Like

  86. Clover April 2, 2013 at 09:42 #

    The thing is, your body can vary its basal metabolic rate. I’d know, I’m thin, and if I over-eat to try and gain weight, I find myself wandering around the house in my undies with the heating off wondering why everything feels so damn hot. I never excersise, and I eat as much as my boyfriend (who has about 9″ and 50lb on me), and yet my weight remains constant. Our endocrine systems are in control of our metabolic rate, so foods which influence that will also influence weight gain/loss. Calories count, but you never know what your body will decide to burn, so there’s little point counting them in my experience.

    Like

  87. Master Beta April 3, 2013 at 10:46 #

    That’s just not true. What is true, is that different people respond differently to different foods, this is especially true of that demon sugar. The fact is, we never adapted to eating modern processed foods (and processed foods includes whole grains), we never as a species went through natural selection on a modern diet (with fatties dying). Having said that, due to genetic diversity, plenty of people can eat a modern sugar filled diet without getting fat.
    The point is, if you eat a diet we are actually evolved to eat of game, fish, fruit and veg – you will not be fat. It would be near impossible to get fat on such a diet, because if our ancestors had gotten fat off that diet – they died and had no babies.
    The other point is, if you’re not losing weight on your low fat, high fibre diet, try a low carb diet, and if nothing you do works? You can always do a ketogenic diet, which is virtually guaranteed to make you lose weight.

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  88. Master Beta April 3, 2013 at 11:04 #

    JB, there’s little to no evidence that salt is bad for you:

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=its-time-to-end-the-war-on-salt

    And it’s so important to the basic functioning of the human body (right up there with oxygen and water), that you’d have to be mad to limit your salt intake, especially if you’re craving it. Having said that, too much oxygen will kill you.

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  89. Master Beta April 3, 2013 at 11:16 #

    However, what do you say to someone who eats all the right foods, but is still obese?

    They’re not eating the right foods.

    The right foods for one person are the wrong foods for another. For example, I have a friend who’s allergic to Gluten; Bread will kill him, it will nourish me. Who’s to say bread won’t also make one person thin and another person fat? There are no objective “right” or “wrong” foods, it depends a lot on the person.

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  90. K April 10, 2013 at 16:36 #

    Many fatties have subconscious reasons to be that way. Me, for example. I was huge, gonna die unless I got help. Went into therapy. Wellbutrin greatly helped my depression & took away some of the craving for junk food. (Was not surprised to find out Wellbutrin is sold under a different name [Zyban] as a quit-smoking aid.) Found a diet that really worked for me. Lost a bunch of weight, no supermodel but approaching human form. Very proud of myself. It wasn’t even that hard! Woohoo, I’m normal now, got this thing licked! Started getting compliments. Freaked out & put most of the weight back on. Stuffed myself like one of those poor geese in France. Didn’t even enjoy it most of the time. Why was I doing that to myself? A good (short) book on the subject:

    The Gabriel Method

    Like

  91. freetofish April 24, 2013 at 19:47 #

    Here’s a doozy on the topic

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/24/oatmeals-ny-fatshaming-sign-removed-twitter-complaint_n_3146847.html?utm_hp_ref=women&ir=Women

    Basically, a restaurant posted a sandwich board that said:

    Did you know:

    Bagel with cream cheese = 600 calories

    Oatmeal with berries – 150 calories

    Summer is coming…just saying

    And some princess gets on twitter to call the restaurant out for “fatshaming”

    and of course Huffpo picks it up.

    Like

  92. Diana May 4, 2013 at 13:01 #

    I’m against fat-shamming.Mostly because it’s redundant.You know you’re fat, it’s not news to you.I used to be obese as a kid and most of my teenager years.I had high testosterone but thankfully not high insulin.And I still developed some insulin resistance.My testosterone has been high since I was 13 regardless of how fat I was.I used to be 94 lbs for a while and my testosterone still high.Now I’m sticking to 110 lbs as my normal weight.My cousin not as lucky…she has both of them high and yea she’s rather on the heavy side and on her way to diabetes type 2.She can slow it down but not stop it entirely.When I see a fat adult I think it’s not my business.They’ve surely been warned about the health consequences and I’m rather sure they don’t want want to on the first page of Fitness today.With kids on the other hand I tend to get mad.I do think it steals your childhood, damages your health and your self-esteem.Not taking your child to a doctor and help him manage his weight makes you a really bad parent.

    Like

  93. Jack Strawb October 18, 2014 at 08:47 #

    By the way, there’s also that whole business of blaming the media for the stress women are unreasonably put under to be thin. The problem is, the “problem” does not exist.

    Take the past month. I haven’t seen a single image of a woman of unhealthy weight who is represented as desirable. A typical height and weight for a woman pitching product or otherwise shown to be attractive is around 5′-7″ and 135 lbs, with height and weight proportional from those numbers. No one is scrawny. No one is rail thin. You might find a few genuinely skinny runway models, but runway models are a tiny fraction of women the mainstream media presents as attractive, and there are enough jokes about them it’s hard to imagine anyone taking runway models seriously as the paragons of female attractiveness. Besides, the occasional woman in real life is thin. Don’t they deserve representation, too?

    In addition, the men we see in the MSM presented as desirable are no less fit and trim than the images we see of women; most obviously hit the gym. Entire films are shot with leading men who have just pumped iron prior to every scene, to get that extra bit of muscle definition. Yet men seem far less afflicted with eating disorders.

    Young women don’t have eating disorders because they’re trying to emulate unhealthily scrawny women in the media. Anorexia, just to take one example, has nothing to do with images in the MSM. Can we find even one woman going 5′-6 and 105 lbs presented as attractive? Women with anorexia are not trying to fit any sort of media created depiction of desirability.

    Like

  94. Jack Strawb October 18, 2014 at 08:48 #

    I don’t even know what “fat-shaming” is. Pointing out that someone is overweight or obese is not “fat-shaming.” Can you give actual examples?

    Like

  95. Mozite January 3, 2015 at 18:06 #

    Yelling out of a car at an overweight person who is obviously exercising is the best (and by that I mean patently contradictory) example I’ve experienced. Other examples would be pointing it out in situations which don’t merit it, or using it with malice aforethought.

    That said, I feel that it’s been broadened much too far. A key problem to me of fat shaming is that all it does is promote the person to not lose weight, as if the reason is to avoid shame, I imagine most people will take the easier option – stay home. Don’t want that person in the car to yell at you? Don’t put yourself in a position where the person in the car can yell at you. So, real and true fat shaming perpetuates people remaining fat, remaining in the head space which made you amenable to the shaming in the first place.

    That can be contrasted to (more personal anecdote time, yay!) an anesthetist who, during the pre-op talk for some unrelated surgery, takes the time to point out to you that you are at the moment clinically obese, rather than sugarcoating it. Who informs you of problems with obesity you’d never heard of before (apparently it has an impact on what types of anesthetic can be used especially at older ages; not only does it have general health risks, but it also makes simply having surgery harder). Who doesn’t treat you like a child who needs to have your feelings coddled against confronting the fact that there is a very real problem with where you are at, while also (or I guess necessarily) letting you know that you can fix it with hard work and diligence.

    Like

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