Yesterday morning, Mr.JB was feeling very affectionate and lovey, and on his way out the door, he kissed me and told me I was his “best friend”.
Aww. How sweet.
First of all, you should know that he’s leaving on Sunday to attend a conference in a really big, glorious, proper city, and he’s giddy with joy at the prospect of getting out of our little town. Mr. JB is a city boy at heart, and there is pretty much nothing he loves more than the sound of traffic and sirens and the sun bouncing off skyscrapers and the hustle and bustle of millions of people shoving their way down crowded sidewalks.
Me? Not so much.
http://judgybitch.com/2013/01/12/it-aint-all-tits-and-champagne/
What he really wants to say is “See ya later, hillybilly! I’m outta here!”, but it comes out as a smooch and “You’re my best friend”.
It’s straight-up bullshit, but funny bullshit, so I don’t mind. But it did get me thinking….
Mr. JB is a great guy, obviously, and I love him to pieces, but he is NOT my best friend. My best friend is Pixie, by far, followed by GloryGirl, SuzyQ, SnowWhite (who is in France for the year with her husband and kids, but she’ll be back in September), JudgyAsshole, Prince Charming, CleverGuy and NurseRachet. Those eight people form the core of my circle of friends. They are the ones I complain to, ask for advice, laugh with, discuss endless amounts of minutiae and just generally share the details of my life with.
On the one hand, it would be awesome to be married to Pixie. She does laundry! And she cooks! And she sends the most hilarious ecards about how much cooking and laundry sucks! We spend many days counting down the hours until wine o’clock and no one appreciates my contempt for internet assholes quite like Pixie.
On the other hand, I wouldn’t like to fuck her. Oh, she’s super cute and hot and has awesome hair, but the whole girl thing doesn’t do it for me.
So there’s that.
After the “best friend” comment yesterday, I thought I would try a little experiment on Mr.JB to see just how good a friend he is. I copied and pasted him, the whole morning, on all the texts I sent to Pixie. Here are the main issues in my life at the moment:
The hamster is loose in the ductwork. (Don’t ask, it’s a long story).
The stitch marker fell out of the slouchy hat I’m making for LittleDude, and now I’ve lost my place and the whole thing is fucked up.
Who the fuck gives a four year old Sharpie markers? How do I get Sharpie markers off the coffee table?
Do these yoga pants make my ass look fat?
I don’t have any lime juice to make the barbacoa. Can I use lemon juice instead?
What the fuck is wrong with Amanda Marcotte?
The Catching Fire trailer will be out on April 14th! Squee!
Do I have to wait until the kids get home from school before I have a drink?
On a scale of one to ten, how hot is Chris Hemsworth?
Just as I predicted, shortly after 11AM, my phone rang. I have a special ringtone for when Mr. JB calls: It’s the Imperial Death March from Star Wars, and when I hear it, I know this shit is serious. He never calls unless it’s really important.
Dear, what is all this bullshit you are sending me? Am I supposed to do something about this?
Then of course, I drop the F Bomb.
But I thought you were my friend! My best friend! Don’t you want to know how my day has been?
*crickets*
Let’s not be friends.
You see, I think there is something totally and utterly destructive in the notion that your spouse should be your friend. Your best friend, even. Friends are people who share your interests and who are going through some of the same stages and having the same issues and confronting the same obstacles that you are.
And sometimes, when friends pass into different stages of their lives, the friendship loses some of its intensity and value and there is a disconnection and often those friendships drift into fond acquaintances and that’s it.
Graduating, getting married, having children (especially having children), buying a house, moving cities, moving countries, changing jobs, managing health problems – all those things can change a friendship into something less.
Sometimes, it’s just time to move on.
I’m incredibly fortunate that my best friend has been my best friend for almost 20 years now. Pixie and I have been inseparable since our first year at college. I’ve known SuzyQ for 13 years. CleverGuy’s older brother was the best man at my wedding, so while I have only known him really well for 5 years, I have known his family for a long time.
CleverGuy is a really good friend. I can talk to him about tons of stuff that doesn’t interest my other friends, but he is about to graduate from an engineering program, and who knows where he will end up? If he moves very far away, we’ll still be friends, but not as close as we are now.
And that’s okay. That’s life.
Friends fill in little voids in your life that your spouse either isn’t interested in, doesn’t care about, or just can’t fill in! There is no way Mr.JB can ever appreciate how valuable cimmaron is when making Mexican-fusion dishes. JudgyAsshole, who is a wonderful cook, can. JudgyAsshole’s dad has brilliant advice about flower arranging. No way in hell Mr.JB will EVER have an opinion on that subject.
At the moment, I happen to give a shit about those topics, and I am lucky to have friends who can share those interests with me. It’s conceivable that my interests will change in the future, and I’ll need a different set of friends to reflect what’s new in my life.
And that is absolutely a two way street. I don’t care what Mr.Jb’s Xbox score is. I don’t give a shit which part of the budget will be used to fund a new hire. I do NOT want to watch Naked Gun. I don’t give a fuck how much trouble linen pants are. Text your friends, dude. Don’t bother me with this shit.
But what happens when your spouse is your friend, and your interests change? Then what? You start feeling disconnected, alienated, lonely. When you ask your spouse to meet your needs as a friend, you run the very real risk that your needs will change, and your spouse won’t be able to meet those needs.
That’s a tragedy. The solution is NOT to trade in your spouse for a new one. It’s to STOP asking your spouse to be your friend.
http://articlesofabsurdity.com/2011/10/27/hes-not-my-friend-hes-my-husband/
http://mouthyhousewives.com/husbands/is-it-ok-that-my-husband-isnt-my-best-friend
So if Mr.JB is not my friend, what is he?
It’s very simple: he’s my husband. I’m his wife. We are partners in an enterprise that matters deeply to both of us: our family. Of course, we have shared interests and I find him hilarious and fun to be with and when he’s gone, I miss him deeply. He’s also really great to have sex with. But ultimately, we are partners, not friends.
If all my friends were to suddenly disappear, I would indeed be very lonely and sad and unhappy. But that wouldn’t be my husband’s fault, nor would it be something he could solve. Getting rid of my husband wouldn’t change the fact that I am friendless. It would just mean that I am without the protection of a partner.
And it would mean, that in a very real way, I would lose most of my most cherished memories. In a long term partnership, like the one we have, we are the repositories of one another’s memories. Our shared life together exists in one another’s minds. Our life is a tapestry of tiny threads, woven together, into a work of beautiful art.
Chains do not hold a marriage together. It is threads, hundreds of tiny threads which sew people together through the years.
Simone Signoret
http://www.marriagemoments.org/index.php?p=loyalty&s=content
I don’t need my friends to create art. I just need my fellow weaver. When I find the work frustrating or irritating, I don’t turn on my partner or throw away the whole project. I text my friends.
That’s what friends are for.
Now, does anyone have any ideas about how to get the hamster out of the air ducts?
Lots of love,
JB
judgybitch 
No idea about the hamster, but rubbing alcohol normally removes sharpie.
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I don’t know if I have any.
Can I use vodka?
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Perhaps, and on the plus side, you can always drink the vodka and just not care about the sharpie anymore.
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The way I see it you have two options: Let loose the cat or use cheese 😀
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The problem seems less about having your husband as your friend, and more about having only one friend that doesn’t cover all your interests. My SO is definitely my friend, but of course, not the only one 🙂 The problem is trying to get ALL your needs met from one person.
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Very true. I have a bunch of friends that I have “compartmentalized” into different areas of my life. There are interests I share with some that I wouldn’t want to discuss with others, because I know they just don’t care or wouldn’t understand. Since your spouse is supposed to complement you, chances are there will be relatively few areas of interest that you’ll have in common, but of course, “building a family” has to be one of them.
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Chris Hemsworth is an 11!
Just had to chime in on that.
This is a really interesting post to me. I’m not really the “girlfriend” type of girl. I have friends- many of them. And they do fill the void in me that needs girl talk. But I don’t have any “best” friends. I wish I did, but we moved so much when I was a kid (11 different schools in 12 years) that I never had the stability needed to keep friends and I’m more used to having acquaintances rather than buddies. But that works for me. I find close friendships to be a lot of work. I’m in a book club that meets every other month and I swear that’s about as much social interaction as I can handle. It’s exhausting.
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Poor Mr JB! I’m sure he thought he was just being sweet. 🙂
It does always sound weird to me when a man refers to his wife as his best friend, though. Reminds me of salespeople, or motivational speakers for some reason. I start to wonder if they have a family cheer….
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I don’t know about hamsters, but rats LOVE peanut butter.
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block all but one of the exits and wait
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The concept that a friend is distinct in kind from a mate is one of the tougher blue pill to red pill transitions for ‘nice guy’ betas to process, and one that deserves more attention.
I grew up with the core belief that romance was an evolved form of friendship that added loving intimacy and sex. In other words, a girlfriend was higher on the scale than a friend, but it was still the same scale. If there’s an entry lesson of the Manosphere, it’s that that’s *not* how the male-female sexual dynamic actually works, and friend and mate (husband, boyfriend, lover) are different things.
I’m confused – if courtship is not, as I once thought, an evolution of friendship, then what is it. At this point, I figure friendship may overlap and perhaps enhance the relationship, but it’s not, as I once believed, the essence of the relationship. I don’t know the relationship and balance between friend and mate.
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You know, I think you and I would really get on IRL, Sadie.
🙂
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For starters, stop using the word courtship.
Unless you are over 50 and that is totally cool and on point.
I grew up believing in true love and christian marriage so I feel your pain.
that kind of romance you speak of, may exist. But i aint’ seen it outside of John Hughes Films.
YOu can be friends with your lover, but that isn’t the core basis. Spark. is the start.
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I’d say it skews heavily towards “mate”. The basis of the bond between a husband and wife is not shared interests (outside of family), but sex.
Reproductive sex (which is the hottest sex ever), and sex for pure physical pleasure.
I don’t really want to discuss with Mr.JB our very different ideas of what makes for a good film (Lesley Neislen is not on my list of requirements), but I always want to fuck my husband.
A sexless,or sex-starved marriage isn’t really a marriage at all. It’s a couple of (maybe) friends living together. It can be awesome in lots of ways, but it’s not a marriage.
That may sound hopelessly reductive – the whole relationship comes down to sex? Well, yeah.
But sex is just so great. It’s a primary driver of human feeling and motivation and connection and a profound part of love. I feel that connection very deeply, which is maybe why I’ve never been one for one-night stands. I want to love the person I have sex with. And conversely, I have always felt a bit of love for the men I have had sex with.
On days when I am being a completely irrational bitch (it happens), or my husband is being a relentlessly detail-oriented dickhead, we still connect physically.
And then all is forgiven.
But I’m still not watching Airplane. That shit is just stupid. Sorry honey. Your taste in movies sucks.
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You beat me to it!
Nice answer!
Here’s me: ramble, ramble, ramble…
tl;dr
Here’s you: it comes down to spark.
Yep.
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Writing over top of it with a whiteboard marker and then using a whiteboard eraser works, too.
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If any of the kids are still small enough, just send’em up into the duct with nets and blocks of cheese, and you’ve got yourself a solution. Of course when my family lost out cat in the ceiling, we just played the waiting game.
Oh, but more to the point. I have to take the opportunity here to quote Nietzsche (I never miss a chance to do so): “It is not a lack of love, but a lack of friendship that makes unhappy marriages.” Of course Nietzsche was never married. And he did have syphilis. But I can see his point. You spend a lot of time around someone, and most of the time you’re not having sex with them, that means you probably have to talk to them a lot. It is not a question of sharing every interest. But if they don’t share some interests, what exactly do two people talk about any way?
And who is ever interested in the trivialities of even their friends’ lives for that matter? I don’t care what my friends ate for breakfast or what they like to drink (maybe because I don’t drink; I’m no fun, I know). Of course, I may just have unusual friends, but I almost never talk with friends about the trivial things going on in my life, unless they are grounds for a joke; otherwise, the topic is usually something like music, history, how terrible 99% of American films are, or ridiculous names to give one’s children as a means of humiliating them for life for the sake of humor (I have a great surname for this; I could really torture my potential offspring if I were so sadistic). And in any case, though I’m sure most people will disagree with me, I happen to think sex is phenomenally overrated. I suppose I’m rather ascetic though as far as people my age go these days.
Bad taste in movies may be forgiven, but I don’t think I could ever marry a woman who likes Jackson Pollock’s paintings. Gross.
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I hope you didn’t learn that by accident.
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I recently ranted on Facebook about the difference between partnership and marriage. It came down to basically this: marriage is a special kind of partnership, so don’t diminish it by calling your husband or wife your “partner”. Only a husband and wife can run a family together. Partners run a business together.
I know this is slightly OT but I think I have noticed a trend of using the word partner synonymously with spouse, husband or wife and it’s even more insidious than your friendship example.
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Very well said. It’s nice to know there are others in the great beyond who don’t consider their spouse their bestie. I consider friendship a huge responsibility, which I would never bestow on my hubby.
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And a partnership dissolves when it ceases to be profitable. And partnerships, as often as not, end with an agreeable handshake. Marriages more often end with the throwing of pottery at one another, in addition to insults of course.
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I bet you could use vodka to make it so you don’t care about the sharpie anymore. 🙂
By the way, what do you think would happen if the gender’s in this article were reversed? Unless the wife was as grounded as you are, Drama City.
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True, I have not seen very many marriages end in a handshake and round of drinks.
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Three things.
1. Yay for the Catching Fire trailer. I didn’t know that was just around the corner!
2. LMAO that “WTF is wrong with Amanda Marcotte” is a running theme with you.
3. My husband is not my best friend either. Thanks for addressing this. I feel much less weird now for not thinking of him that way.
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I think there’s some ymmv here.
I’m actually pretty sure that my wife IS my best friend. But, really, she’s my wife. Totally different category — for me to tell her “you’re my best friend” would be insulting her. Thing is, she’s my wife AND we have a bazillion and a half mutual interests. We started with mild spark and shittons (that’s 2000 buttloads) of arguing. We argued and argued and argued and when it was pointed out that we argued, we argued about that.
Hottest and best sex ever in my whole life? Eh, no; I went around the block more than the average guy, and then some. Our chemistry is good-not-epic, and sex was something we worked on. But I’ve also walked away from a true 10 who had nothing to say, and from other women where the sexual chemistry was so strong that people could see it happening from across a room. I wouldn’t trade her in for a more sexually-potent relationship and am quite happy that I discarded the women that I did.
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Lol! No, thank God!
My husband grew up on property with a lot of rats, and the rats would bite the dogs. So they would put peanut butter out, wait for the rats to sit and eat it and then hit them with arrows. Kind of mean, but effective…
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“Now, does anyone have any ideas about how to get the hamster out of the air ducts?”
That depends, do want it alive afterwards?
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The kids would definitely prefer alive.
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I’ve known a lot of people who started out as friends with little if any physical interest in each other until the relationship and attraction grew. Sometimes they even disliked each other (Like the Elizabeth Gaskell’s North and South come to mind, not to mention the classic Best Ever Pride and Prejudice…Mr Darcy initially described Elizabeth as nothing special and then thought her to be the most beautiful woman on the planet).
My husband and I were friends first, but the sexual chemistry pretty much lit the room on fire even then. I was a goner….
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Yeah, this whole thing was a joke, ‘omg a women got ahead because of looks!? That NEVER happens!!!’
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I think the fact that your spouse doesn’t need to be your best friend doesn’t mean that s/he can’t be.
I’m with happycrow here. My husband really is my best friend. We were friends before we dated, and at the time we moved from friends to dating, he was already well on his way to becoming my best friend.
That said, I am not his best friend. He has probably 2 guys who would be considered his best friend depending on the role and context in question, and plenty of other friends. But most of his friends date back to high school, and their lives have continued to stay together.
I fell out of touch with all my school friends after leaving school and drifting into other interests, and while I have new friends, I’ve never been as tight with anyone as with my husband, even just on the friendship metric. Had we not ended up together, I’m sure he would still be my best friend. He just plays that role in addition to the one in which he is my husband.
That said, we don’t have children. I think having a friendship relationship on top of a marriage is additionally important when there is less going on in the business you run together.
I would love to have a separate best friend, but until I am lucky enough to find one, it’s awesome that my husband counts in that area.
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Lu and I have been married for 34 years now (35 in August) and I have no idea why we made it or what constitutes a healthy marriage. I was a married and a father at 19. Lu was 17 and 18 respectively. I suppose sex was the initial driver (there was a baby in the mix after all and we do know how that happens) but as the relationship aged and matured that becomes less and less a factor. Lines however, as in those things which do and must separate us even as husband and wife, have become more important. We love our time together but time apart is essential to both of us. We were lucky in that my career required a lot of time apart (soldier and cop). It’s trite and overused but absence can make the heart grow fonder. Or perhaps absence makes it easier to remember how much we love each other without the stress of being together constantly. That becomes even more pointed when retirement comes into play. Yes, after 33 years of tearing my body and emotions apart I am now retired. We both encourage the other to have friends, activities and interests away from the house. Is it crucial to have friends not of the spousal variety? I don’t know but anecdotally it has worked for us for nearly three and a half decades. There is more obviously; respect, honor, fidelity, etc., but I’ve wasted enough bandwidth as it is. Good questions and observations JudgyBitch (love the name!) and that you can remark upon them so intelligently speaks volumes for the strength of your marriage.
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I read Pixie’s and your response. Thanks.
I am used to being told there’s “no spark” while being rejected.
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That’s awesome, Six! 🙂
My husband is military, too (reserve now, former active duty). I’m iffy on the “benefit” of absence. When I was accustomed to him being gone all the time, I adjusted, but the long deployments were pretty stressful (my oldest basically didn’t know he had a father until he was three, there was just a strange man very occasionally around the house)….then he went reserve and seemed to be home all.of.the.time. That was stressful to adjust to also. Now he’s away more often, though for far shorter durations than before and I want him home all the time.
I’ve heard that for every wise saying there’s an equal but opposite wise saying. “Distance makes the heart grow fonder” but also “out of sight, out of mind”….I think the measure of a marriage is how you adjust to the changes (also what I call battle testing). If you’re close and do your part to promote that stability, you grow closer but if you aren’t the stressors pull the relationship apart.
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Oh Man, I’m sorry. Wasn’t trying to rub salt in a wound… I hear your frustration though. I was considered non-girlfriend material for years.
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No need to apologize. That’s what we’re here for. I said that as a nod in agreement. The red pill works when the explanation fits the experience.
Being told ‘You’re a great guy, but there’s no spark’ the first time hurt, but I wrote if off as the mysterious alchemy of attraction. When it became a pattern, I needed answers. That’s what we’re here for.
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I have no problem with YMMV. I just felt “weird” for not being part of this “my husband is my best friend” culture. I mean I love him. I love spending time with him. We go out and do fun stuff together frequently. And we do have a lot of things in common, but we also have a lot of things NOT in common. i.e. when I show him something “girlie” like a new nail polish or something… his response: “I’m a guy, dear.” Guys just don’t really get excited about that stuff. They might appreciate the “final look” when everything is put together, but he’s really not going to get excited about my shoes or nail polish or new lip gloss color.
That’s what I have friends for. I guess maybe it does have to do with how someone defines friend and what their parameters are. i’m not saying shopping and talking about nail polish is all I look for in a friend, but generally speaking, as much as I love my husband, he doesn’t fall into the friend zone.
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Yup, I’m totally in line with that. I pay more attention to style than the average guy, so I’m a great guy to go clothes-shopping with (though I hate the “shopping as entertainment marathon” that chicks dig so much). My wife, otoh, digs hardcore archaeological records that makes a bunch of HER peers’ eyeballs glaze over.
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Ok, I only said what I advised from the super geek league I come from. I was once the Queen of unrequited love, so I get what your saying.
After making enough bad choices and getting my heart properly stomped on, even by so called ‘nice guys’, I just gave up. Focused on my career, and kept going.
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That makes sense to me.
I think the women who go on constantly about marrying their best friend often don’t have a good sense for it. And a lot of them then end up losing their ‘best friend’ when they toss out their husband.
A big part of the reason my husband could be considered a friend, and also the reason why I mostly lack female friends is my lack of girliness. I don’t get excited about any of that stuff either, and own no nail polish, lip gloss, or the like, and am baffled by the interest in shoes. JB’s list of girlfriend texts above would drive me nuts as well.
What does interest me is wilderness and mountains, which makes up both my work and 95% of my play, and unsurprisingly, means I more often connect better with men. Unfortunately, it just isn’t that easy to make friends when you have little in common with most of your gender, and i’ve found it difficult to make new friends with the opposite gender once you’re old enough for most people to be in stable couples.
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Nice. When you have detailed interests like that, you have to really hunt for the common-minded, and it can give you good friends with whom you have nothing at all else in common. But who else is going to get excited about it with you?
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I think for a guy, that’s a wakeup that you have to make sure you stay in the frame of ‘interesting guy’ and not ‘friend’ right from the start, so as to make sparks possible.
Back in the days of courtship, a spark wasn’t necessary, as people evaluated each other’s potential for the role. Now, you have to make sure you’re seen as an attractive man, or there will never be a spark.
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Ha! You know, the funny thing is, Mr. Z actually has good taste in man clothes and buys most of his own. But he’s a very single-minded shopper, not like how women typically shop. He has to go alone. He’s got this single focus. He gets his stuff, he comes home. He’s done. And he doesn’t want to have a conversation about it LOL.
HA! your wife sounds like my kind of person. I get on these little kicks where I’ll get obsessed about something nobody else “gets”.
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hahaha @ baffled by the interest in shoes.
That makes sense. (re: everything you said. not just about shoes haha)
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shopping? You mean, as demonstrated in this graphic:
? 😀
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Indeed. Presenting and maintaining the right frame from the start is something I need to learn from the basics, ie, things I should have learned as a teenager.
I used to wonder why the harder I worked for a sound relationship, the more that the feedback and my room for error with the girl would lessen. I felt like I was walking a shrinking tightrope. Inevitably, she’d leave me with no regret and give me no second chances. Meanwhile, I observed girls, including the same girls, give great leeway and even work for other guys who I thought were not doing it right. WTF?!
What I believed was right was wrong and I didn’t know why, until I found the red pill on-line.
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HA! yes.
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I know this particular article is old, but I rabbit-trailed here from the link on JB’s newest blog entry. I relate to what you’re saying, Kai.
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Hear ya, happycrow! 🙂 Hubby and I are both history nerds and our son is well on his way. We can talk forever about The Crusades to the Crimean War. You know, eyeball-glazing stuff.
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On one hand I see what you mean, on the other I think you’re in danger of slipping totally apart. My wife is my best friend without doubt and has been for the 16 yrs I’ve known her. I can’t imagine otherwise
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I don’t generally think of the Captain as my best friend, but I’m really glad you brought this to my attention because I hadn’t given it much thought. Also I’m in total agreement with Sadie- consuming the vodka will actually make those Sharpie scribbles look so nice on your coffee table.
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