SOME IMAGES NSFW. REPEAT. NSFW.
On the upside, NO KATE HARDING!
So, before the pukefest at Chateau JB, we were marveling over the wisdom of Emily Yoffe, who writes as Dear Prudence over at slate.com.
The first letter in the column was rather interesting, too.
My only daughter recently came out to me as a stripper. For years she had said she worked in a standard office job. I feel as if I’ve been slapped in the face for all the years she lied to her father and me. I love her so much and this revelation has turned my world upside down. I had to tell my husband and he is furious and refuses to talk to her. Not only am I unsure as how to take this, but I don’t know how to handle my husband. I don’t want my family torn apart by this and I do not support her career choice. Help?
I wonder if Mom and Dad have seen this?
http://now.msn.com/stripper-posts-picture-to-reddit-showing-cash-she-says-she-earned-in-tips
THAT’S ONE NIGHT. And perfectly legal, in case Mom and Dad need reminding. Kind of like, oh, working for Enron or Lehman’s, except without devastating the retirement plans and savings of all the employees, and basically destroying the economy.
Bankers? Okie-dokie!
Strippers? Good god almighty NO WAY!!!
Why not? What, exactly is the objection to young ladies displaying their bodies?
Nothing to see here, right? Rapey rape rape protesters. Or whatever. All’s good here.
Mr. Putin, you sir, are an asshole. Here are my tits to prove it!
All y’all are assholes in the Ukraine. Let me paint my breasts to demonstrate how so!
Fur is bad! Here are some more naked ladies to make the point!
Female genital mutilation is bad. Let me soak my crotch in corn syrup and jello powder to prove it! Circumcision? What’s that? Shut up already. We’re only protesting the mutilation of GIRLS. Penis owners will have to take care of themselves. Jello dick, anyone?
Bullfighting is bad. More boobs!
Cellophane packaging is bad? Wait…wha?!?! Oh never mind. Boobies!!!
We need more bicycle lanes. For naked riders with piss poor attitudes, apparently.
Uhm, I have no idea. Something in SanFrancisco is bad. Maybe that bush? Who knows.
So all that shit is fine. Empowering even. Rah! You go grrrrrrrl!
This is good. Oh yeah.
This is even better.
This is nigh unto perfect!
But this!
OH HOLD UP NOW! WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?
What is the difference between all the pictures that precede the one above?
Desire. Specifically, male desire. The “protest” pictures are designed to taunt, to flaunt, to provoke. But not a positive reaction. On the contrary. They are aggressive and designed to enflame, but not in way that admires or invites desire. They are meant to aggravate rather than alleviate.
And you know, fair enough. If yanking your tits out makes you feel powerful, go for it. Bounce those puppies from here to Mars and back if you think it helps whatever cause you are supporting (although a good bra would offer hella more support!).
(That bra is hand’s down the best sports bra ever!!!)
But why should we admire, esteem, even valorize topless fur protesters and then bring down the wrath of pearl-clutching god on young ladies who decide to bare their breasts and bodies for the purpose of gratifying male desire?
Would Mom and Dad freak the fuck out if their daughter said she was a full-time activist for PETA and regularly posed naked? I doubt it.
Instead, she gets on a stage every night and dances to music while removing her clothes to the delight of her customers. Her male customers. Who pay her handsomely for the pleasure of seeing her body.
Being a stripper doesn’t make you a woman of loose morals. It doesn’t make you psychologically damaged. It doesn’t make you a crazy slut in any way, shape, or form. Are there crazy sluts who strip?
Oh hell yeah. Show me any job that doesn’t have a couple crazy sluts tossed in the mix. Whether you stock shelves at Walmart, work at an accounting firm or fold shirts at the Gap, there are gonna be crazy sluts.
Stripping is no different, but if you think every woman peeling off her pasties on a pyrotechnic stage is a crazy slut, you have got another think coming.
Things You Should Know About Strippers
- A third of them are paying tuition with that cash
- Most of them just want to dance
- 10 % of them are married
- 20% have dated customers
http://www.11points.com/Dating-Sex/11_Eye-Opening_Statistics_About_Strippers
In a way, it’s kind of understandable why Daddy isn’t thrilled his baby is stripping, but that kind of falls in line with Daddy not being thrilled that his baby might be getting used by a man and getting her heart broken. The football Captain she stripped for in private could be a douchebag, and maybe that lawyer she was dating, too.
Actually that lawyer for sure. Yech. No lawyers!! Jesus, have some standards.
(kidding)
Daddy needs to take a step back and consider the fact that a woman who is stripping to pay her tuition is, in fact, making a very smart investment. Her sexual appeal is at its peak, paying interest on loans SUCKS, and avoiding debt at all costs is a very smart thing to do, depending on the ROI, of course.
Now, let’s be clear. Debt, in and of itself, is not a bad thing, depending on the RETURN ON INVESTMENT you will get from taking on that debt load. An extended payment plan on a loan of $25 000 will result in a student repaying $52 000. $25 000/ year over the course of a four year degree and you are repaying $208 000!!! And when you used that money to buy yourself a women’s studies degree, which will earn you around $15 000/year as a Starbucks barista, and it will take you a good 14 years just to break even.
Hey! Good investment!
People are afraid of debt (except for all the people who SHOULD be – yes, I’m talking to you, idiot humanities majors), but that is actually a very short-sighted approach to wealth building.
I know, I know. Every head up their ass economic pundit out there disagrees with me. Well, guess what? They’re all wrong.
Here’s a couple of jerkwads you should NOT TRUST ever.
They’re a couple of Harvard economists who are pretty much singlehandedly responsible for the “austerity” measures that have been sweeping across the landscape of modern Western democracies, based on the idea that once you have a debt ratio that is more than 90% of GDP, growth slows dramatically.
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/21/meet_the_economics_whiz_who_outed_rr_partner/
Apparently, they never heard of the Marshall Plan.
So according to these two, the best way to get economic growth chugging is to restrict the supply of money, fail to invest in public infrastructure and let all the bridges and highways crumble into rubble, and pay down debt rather than get money circulating through job creation.
Kind of like saying the best way to ensure your home increases in value is to never do a lick of maintenance, but pay down the mortgage as fast as you can. Don’t use your money to replace the leaky roof and upgrade the furnace, just pay off that mortgage. There might be some good reasons to do that, but they won’t increase the value of your home. And if that leaky roof ends up as dry rot, you will actually have DECREASED the value of your home, although, hey, it will be paid off!
Harvard economists, like all economists everywhere (except maybe Captain Capitalism) can spit out some fancy-pants language and back that up with some even fancier mathematical models, but their advice comes down to bullshit the average person can see through in ten seconds.
http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.ca/2013/04/is-us-cooking-books-on-gdp.html
Using clear, sharp analysis and comprehensive data, Reinhart and Rogoff document that financial fallouts occur in clusters and strike with surprisingly consistent frequency, duration, and ferocity. They examine the patterns of currency crashes, high and hyperinflation, and government defaults on international and domestic debts–as well as the cycles in housing and equity prices, capital flows, unemployment, and government revenues around these crises. While countries do weather their financial storms, Reinhart and Rogoff prove that short memories make it all too easy for crises to recur.
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8973.html
Sharp analysis and comprehensive data?
Oh, oops. They made a tiny mistake in that comprehensive data, and left out Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada and Denmark. Spreadsheet fuck-up. Forgot to capture a few cells.
That can’t have any real impact, right? I mean Canada and Australia only contribute most of the natural resource commodities. How valuable can that be?
When that tiny little error is accounted for, instead of seeing -.01% growth at a 90% debt to GDP ratio, we get +2.2% growth rate.
Ooops!
Ask any person with a house if they should replace a leaky roof or pay down the mortgage in order to increase the value of their home, and you will be hardpressed to find anyone who doesn’t see the answer. Maybe if Harvard economists live in that house, you’ll see them running to the bank to pay the mortgage instead of hiring a roofing crew, but those people are clearly a special kind of genius.
Aside: ALWAYS HIRE A ROOFING CREW. Mr. JB, JudgyAsshole and my brother decided to replace the roof on our house last summer. Mr. JB ended up “managing”, which basically consisted of wandering around with a cold beer yelling at the guys to put four nails in every shingle, and JudgyAsshole and my brother did all the work. I’m not sure it ended up being any cheaper after they both insisted on being paid in cases of Scotch.
The difference between paying off the mortgage and fixing the roof has to do with time and value. The value of the house has nothing to do with how much is left on the mortgage and everything to do with whether or not the roof leaks. And the roof problem is not going to get better over time, it will get worse.
This brings us back to our stripper. She has something of value that is peaking, and that value is not going to get better over time, it will get worse. So sad, too bad.
Now, the traditional feminist explanation for why stripping is bad and de-valuing is that men always have the upper hand in the power equation between the sexes. That’s called “patriarchy”.
All men, everywhere, at all times, are more powerful than all women, everywhere, at all times. Well, except for all those women who are more powerful than men, but ssssssh. Don’t complicate the argument with facts. You know, women like Angela Merkel, Hilary Clinton, Dilma Rouseff, Melinda Gates, Jill Abramson, Sonia Ghandi, Michelle Obama, Christine Lagarde, Janet Napolitano, Sheryl Sandberg …..
http://www.forbes.com/power-women/
That is WHY the ladies have to pay the men to watch them take off their clothes.
Oh wait. No, it’s the other way around. Men pay women for the pleasure of seeing them dance in very little clothing. Who has the power again?
The reality is that young women, especially young fit women, have an enormous power they can exploit for significant gains, and that power makes an older generation of ladies very, very uncomfortable. Firstly, it does not fit with the powerless victim narrative and secondly, it is a power than wanes as times goes on. Sexual appeal follows an economics, and the value of one’s sexual appeal will depend enormously on the investment one puts in to it.
Which makes it impossible to escape the reality that women have quantifiable, tangible sexual value.
What did Prudence say to our stripper’s concerned mother?
I understand that hearing that your daughter makes her living by taking off her clothes for leering men is a shock, but think of what it took for your daughter to finally reveal the truth. You and her father need to talk out your hurt and pain together, so that you can then go to your daughter and jointly say how hard you know it must have been for her to tell you this and that you appreciate her honesty. Then you can start a conversation about her life. The point you want to make—and which surely she knows—is that her job is not a long-term sustainable one. Say that you two want to support her in helping to figure out how to integrate back into the more traditional workplace so that she can find a more satisfying career. So put aside the judgment and the outrage. Slapping down your daughter will only make her regret coming clean.
Except for the “leering men” bullshit, Prudie doesn’t do a bad job here. She gets one thing absolutely right: the job isn’t a long-term sustainable one. The value of the income-generating asset will depreciate over time, but that doesn’t make this a bad choice at all.
It all depends on how the income is being invested. Paying tuition is an excellent use of the money generated by a young woman’s sexual desirability. Just please.
Not economics.
Or law.
And by the looks of it, you should steer clear of Harvard.
Lots of love,
JB
judgybitch 
Any man that gives money to a stripper is probably an idiot. Paying to have a woman tease you is stupid and sad.
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My ex roommate was a stripper, and she was one of the bigger ones. Still she came home with 200-500 a night in tips, and that’s in a small city. I guess I kind of have a neutral view on it. I don’t think it’s particularly empowering or disempowering, but I guess that could also depend on the individual and how the job make them feel. But I would definitely say that stripper is in charge, especially when it comes down to private dances. At least my roommate was. She was one of those chicks that knew how to get what she wanted and didn’t take any shit from customers. The stories she told were often hilarious. The money would be nice but I just couldn’t bring myself to partake. I respect the women that choose stripping as a job choice, but among many other things, it’s just not my style.
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This is why strippers and porn stars laugh at feminist morons when they say their male clients are oppressing them. Its the men who pay who is really getting shafted and screwed (pun intended) financially, and its the women who strip who really holds the power. In fact, look through history and you find women who used sexual manipulation to gain power and wielded as much power as the kings, dukes, and emperors they seduced with none of the responsibilities.
But I certainly agree with panzer. Men who pay to see women’s titties are retards. I’m a virgin who sees women’s titties. Thank You Internet.
Regarding economics, ALL economists are full of shit and should be disregarded (especially ivy league-rs) because they do not deal with real tangible resources and instead with pieces of paper (or computer digits which even worse).
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Well…I sort of agree with the stripper points, sort of disagree. Make no mistake, no stripper makes 3 grand in tips simply by dancing naked for men’s viewing pleasure. There’s a lot of touchy-touch there, the majority of tips are made in lap dances (at that payrate, those are very vigorous “dances” with happy endings).
So if she’d otherwise be a prostitute, stripping is probably the more lucrative and comparatively safe and more dignified choice. But it isn’t just a ‘body physique show’. And I don’t think I’ve ever met a stripper who don’t claim to be doing it either for tuition or at least one kid at home. Somehow that degree gets further and further away as the easy money and nightlife interfer with studies.
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Would you have striped in your ”golden years”, JB?
Would you be ok with your daughters doing it if you could not afford to pay for their collage tuitions?
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I don’t know… I still think I’d be against my daughter stripping. I’ve seen how men treat the strippers in those clubs – throwing wads of bills in their faces and so forth. Some men are shitheads, even though most aren’t and strip clubs seem to attract them. If a guy treats my daughter in a manner that would make me want to beat their ass if i was there it doesn’t sit well with me knowing that they are doing it when I’m not.
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it’s a fetish for some
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I have know, eh, homina, maybe a half-dozen strippers, slightly more. Never been into a strip joint (Panzer’s point on the economics is more or less like mine – I wouldn’t waste money on sex or a blow job, so I’m certainly not going to waste money on the TEASE of one, either). Of the ones I knew, *one* did it “right,” saving, being careful, working the studies, getting ahead, etcetera.
All of the others were drinking heavily and shifting towards drug use (usually alcohol plus xanax or similar) in order to numb themselves for work, and one could see a distinct downward spiral.
Still trust one before I’d trust a central banker. R&R get a bad rap,imho, b/c the “austerity” measures the ECB is forcing on the continent are FAR from what R&R would have prescribed.
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Still, I wouldn’t be angry at her or not want to speak to her. I can’t imagine what she would have to do in order for me to want to sever ties like the father in the op, even temporarily. I’d just work to help her find another line of work if she was willing, and love her anyway if she wasn’t.
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Tough question, Vlad.
I never even considered it in my “golden” years because back then in my mind stripper=slut. If I knew then what I know now….oh hell yeah!!!
I would absolutely be okay with my daughters stripping. My big concerns would be about the club, the owners, their protection … it would all be concerns for their safety.
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it’s annoying when people say that working as a stripper or a porn star is degrading to the women. if anything, it degrades the men as they’re merely additives, especially in porn. the only thing men really do is provide the money
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My brother is a senior tradesman and he takes his boys to the ripper joint after a long day’s work all the time. Mr. JB tags along when he’s in town, and I don’t think any of those guys treat the ladies badly.
It also doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Have fun!
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Exactly. I think women who can only get political attention by ripping off their shirts are the ones degrading themselves.
Femen are a bunch of idiots.
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There are a lot of different types of strip clubs. Some wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, others..well…I’d lysol everything off before it re-entered my home, and put the clothing in the autoclave.
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What about stretching the norm one step further – f.ex. auctioning virginity (warning, a link to Jezebel) to finance a degree in gender studies? It’s an act of exchange between consenting adults, after all… regardless of poor choice of investment and the kind of publicity one is better off without.
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When I lived in San Francisco, I dated a waitress who was promoted? to a dancer. They’re actually really interesting people with a unique perspective that most women will never have. There is baggage usually (she had a coke problem – to the point she “accidentally” did a line of baby powder and called me to take her to the hospital), but who doesn’t have some baggage?
Like your post over winter about prostitutes being people too, applies to strippers. Personally, I would be upset if my hypothetical daughter or sister were to strip, and I’m guessing you nor Mr. JB would be too thrilled if your daughter did as well (unless I missed that somewhere).
When I look into why it would get on my nerves, it would be the fact that they’re not living within the values she was raised with and/or – it’s kind of like giving up. If you’re cute, and not chubby – stripping is easy. It feels like a cop-out to me personally. If I could strip for cheerleaders exclusively, fuck yeah I do it – but ain’t nobody paying to see me naked.
The most important thing for me is the deception. If you can’t be honest about what you do – then there will be deep, jagged emotional scars that will be tough to navigate.
But it seems like every stripper is paying a tuition, which smells of bullshit to me. The lifestyle that most strippers that I’ve known lead is one of impulse, intensity and sadly dark. In SF these girls earn 85-100k+ in cash a year, easy.
But hey, I’m just one guy.
I wonder if any of them are Woman’s Studies majors…..
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Gotta be honest. I wouldn’t want my daughter to be a stripper. I was a cocktail waitress while I went to college and, while most bar customers are fine, you always get the regulars who think it’s okay to pinch a girl’s ass once they gain a certain familiarity with the place. It never happened to me (my husband says I have a great “don’t mess” vibe) but a lot of girls don’t know how to keep that distance. I can’t help but think that once a girl gets comfortable with being naked in front of men it’s not a great big leap to her doing more than just stripping and there will always be a willing and readily available clientele in a strip club.
I guess it’s the slippery slope argument for me. I don’t want my daughter to strip or prostitute herself. You might be okay with the financial and moral justifications but I worry about the long-term effects. Will she actually go to college? Will she be able to marry a half-way decent man? Will she have to use drugs and alcohol to give her the courage to go through with any of it? Too many pitfalls here. That said- I don’t want my daughter to strip as a form of protest either. That’s just idiotic.
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Haha, Its always interesting to hear men “tagging” along to titty bars. Just say you want to see another woman’s tits that arent your wife’s or girlfriends. They always blame a trip to the club on other guys “Oh they wanted to go, so I just tagged along” Its the funniest thing.
I don’t care if a guy goes once in a while, but don’t make a habit out of it. There’s something very sleezy (regardless of how “classy” the joint it) about frequenting those places.
And besides, who wants a man who’s donating money to some other woman’s college fund, when it should going toward your household.
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Would Mom and Dad freak the fuck out if their daughter said she was a full-time activist for PETA and regularly posed naked? I doubt it.
Actually, I think Mom and Dad would still care about the posing naked, though they should really be outraged that it was for PETA. Those idiots have to go. Feminists however wouldn’t care. Because Patriarchy!
As others have noted, I would think Mom and Dad would be more concerned with the lap dances and the, uh, “champagne room” activities. Other comments are also right that the women have almost all the control or “power” in these circumstances, with beefy men with mob ties to back them up. The men are at the disadvantage and are largely seen as walking wallets. Not that I know about such things from experience, mind you; I hear stories….
Which is why you might want to reconsider being okay with your daughters stripping, JB. Stripping usually affects women by coloring and hardening their attitude toward men, diminishing respect for all men and seeing them as marks. There can also be other psychological damage, not to mention–as happycrow notes–immersion in a culture of drugs and alcohol. It generally takes a pretty focused and strong woman to make and save the money with a specific goal in mind and then get out. For many, however, the allure of lots of easy cash keeps them in the game long after they should have gotten out, and that can lead to working in less-desirable and less-safe clubs as well as branching out into other activities as age takes its toll to keep the cash flowing.
As for economists, most of them are merely guessing most of the time or shaping numbers to fit an agenda. As an undergrad, I started out as an economics major, but quickly became rather disgusted by it and switched to history (yeah, I know, damn humanities majors!). But that was back when the massive tuition inflation
scamspiral was only just starting. If we’d had any sense back in 2008, we would have starting to spend with a laser focus on infrastructure, because it would have put people to work and would have been an actual investment (instead of investing in banks). It’s not just the highways and bridges. Our electrical grid and water delivery systems are crumbling as well. I’m surprised we haven’t had more massive blackouts like the one in 2003 (though, truth be told, it was a great party night in Manhattan).So while our infrastructure crumbles, thanks for the strippers!
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Wearing sweatpants is crucial
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Really judgybitch (*eye roll*) are you really okay with your daughters stripping?
How about Mr JB? How would he feel about that?
I understand why this particular couple is angry, not talking to her is extreme but I understand why theyre pissed. Also, they might be considering something they did (or did not do) in her childhood that would result in her being a stripper.
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Chances are she’ll work as a waitress at some point and receive similar if not more disrespectful treatment for a wage that is offensive in comparison. And of course she will date at least one bad boy…
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Agreed. I had a friend who was a stripper and people shamed her hardcore for it. But she wasn’t sleeping with anybody there. She wasn’t doing drugs. It was just damn good money. And those bouncers watch out for those girls, seriously. And yeah, you want to protest something, get naked, but oh hell, no, don’t actually get naked for someone’s visual entertainment. Because that would be… naughty.
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I think you’re right about usually coloring and hardening attitudes about men and about being strong enough to save money, etc. But, I also think a lot of these girls are already pretty hardened when they get there. Though my friend wasn’t sleeping around or doing drugs, it wasn’t as if she came from a picture-perfect home. If she had, I can’t say she would have been stripping.
In an ideal culture, getting naked under any circumstance outside a committed relationship… or showering… haha, wouldn’t necessarily point to self-esteem issues or other issues, but I can’t argue with this. The percentage of F’d up home lives, disrespect for men, drugs, etc. is pretty high.
But, she was making DAMN good money. As much as I’m “anti-slut’, damn, I’m such a hardcore capitalist that I gotta respect a woman who knows how to use her assets for financial gain. Whether those assets involve her mind or her body.
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Yeah, I know Emma. It’s easy for me to say now, because it’s all just speculation.
I guess the only thing I’m interested in at the moment is not slagging on women who feel they have the right to define what their bodies are worth, because I believe they DO have that right.
It’s obviously pretty complicated, and I sincerely doubt it will ever be anything I have to deal with personally, but in the event that it DOES happen and one of my daughters decides to go for it, I would like them to know that I wouldn’t judge them or frown on them. I might be really, really fucking worried about their safety, but there would be no “you’re a dumb whore” attitude coming from me.
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I never thought about it in those terms. Developing a hardened view of men and male desire.
Hmmm. Very good points.
Learn something new every day!
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That’s what I DON’T want to do – shame any woman for turning her booty into bounty.
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Venturing into the clubs is a young man’s activity. One I haven’t participated in many, many years, thank goodness for protecting my wallet.
That said, I have nothing against stripping as an occupation. Some years ago, I met a former stripper who still looked good at 40 and got her to talk to me about the life. She was the typical busty medium height blonde with the All American girl look that blonde-loving guys just fall for. She started stripping at 18 in the mid-80’s and made at least $150k/year, mostly cash. Paid her way through college on the proceeds. Paid off her younger brother’s student loans as well. Nice sister. Made that kind of money every year until she quit at 33. In addition, while she never tricked herself out, she did pick up a few sugar daddy boyfriends along the way, a couple of whom introduced her to real estate investments. So at the time I met her, she had invested and re-invested over the years to the point where she was living off the income from 3 40 to 60 unit apartment buildings that she owned either outright or close to it. So there was a very smart girl who used her body at the height of its attractive power to provide for herself later in life.
Now that said, this girl was more the exception than the rule. The majority of strippers have little to no sense of money and risk management. They run out and buy the expensive designer label clothing and accessories, they drive Cadillac Escalades or something similarly luxurious. They sniff a lot of cash up their noses, they blow a lot more on party animal trips to Europe. They have the worst boyfriends. They have no respect for anyone, let alone themselves. Also strippers can and often do get an extremely warped sense of men through their “club” lenses. So if I had a daughter who wanted her to strip, I’d say OK, but I’d want her to avoid the worst of her co-workers’ lifestyle choices.
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The Marshall Plan? Really? That’s the basis for your belief that government spending causes growth?
The reason why there was such a large amount of growth during those years is because…oh yeah…WE BLEW AN ENTIRE CONTINENT UP and then financed the rebuilding. Stick to judging and bitching, and leave economics, history, and science to the men sweetie…
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You don’t have to blow shit up to fiance rebuilding!
Maintaining infrastructure requires investment whether you are building a bridge from scratch, rebuilding one that got trashed by an airstrike or reinforcing an existing one.
So yes, I stand by the Marshall Plan as an example of government investment kick-starting an economy.
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I thought that issue was pretty contentious among feminist factions. Like 50/50 contentious?
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we would have been better off if WW2 never happened. Our spending on it was just waist. We would have been better off if we could have used the money another way. google Thomas Sowell Marshall Plan he’s better at explaining than I am.
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Judgybitch fell for the socialist smear campaign against the austerity study! The study replicates findings made by Stanford and the IMF concerning debt to GDP ratios. The Left is furious that fair Harvard should suggest something other than non-stop government spending as the cure to all of our ills. Crony capitalists and crooked politicians the world over need the government gravy train to keep on chugging.
For shame…
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I disagree.
The contention was spending on bullshit programs that offer no long term benefits to society versus spending on things like maintaining the power grid and transportation networks.
One is just throwing money away. The other is investing in the future.
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True dat. Good points. As for dating the bad boy, as I said above, I can beat his ass if he treats her like garbage, and I’ll be able to make sure he knows that, so that’s less of a trigger for me.
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Consenting adults entering into a mutually beneficial contract? The horror!
That being said, regardless of how I feel about strangers doing that, I still hope my daughter is classy enough to eschew stripping and prostitution (which is what this is) . So I guess I’m a hypocrite? Is it okay to be cool with other people doing things that I wouldn’t want my daughter todo? Because that seems to be where the comments here seem to be heading.
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Your support of your daughter, should one decide to do that would help her be more likely to invest her tips wisely. I think part of why a lot of women DON’T invest wisely is that there is so much cultural shame and if they do have parents who have any involvement in their life, fear of parents finding out, etc. Without that shame and with actual support, such a choice could turn out to be both lucrative and productive and just “one of these wacky things” she did in her younger years that she can recount with a wink when she’s a bit older.
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I think it depends on the club, somewhat. Some of the seedier clubs attract a definite nasty element. But there are a lot of clubs that refer to themselves as “gentlemen’s clubs” and they work to give off a much more classy vibe. That attracts a better paying clientele and creates a safer environment for the girls and less of a sleazy atmosphere. I would assume Mr. JB isn’t going to the dive stripper clubs.
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Oh and Liz already beat me to this comment basically.
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To be fair, a lot of the sex positive feminists are in favor of women choosing to be strippers.
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HA! Yeah, I’ll shame sluts all day, but I’m a capitalist, man. I give a woman props for knowing what she can sell and make a profit at.
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I don’t know. I’ll have to ask him. He generally packs hand sanitizer with him wherever he goes, so it’s good either way.
😛
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There’s something to this comment, Goober. Kind of like I’m cool with men rock climbing and taking risks for fun, but I sure as hell would not like to see my son doing it.
Please god, not rock climbing. Scares the crap out of me.
Maybe it has to do with risks and making certain you’re not taking foolish ones?
Oh, I don’t know what I want to say.
Something just feels right about your comment.
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That rationalization hamster is really going.
Sure you get lots of money for showing your body off to strangers…but is it worth the stigma that comes with it. How about the fact you get married and your husband is one of thousands of men that have seen your honorable parts. I guarantee you most dads would not want their daughters to be strippers…and if you are married to one then you must be able to suppress a lot of protective desires. I would award her no points and may God have mercy on her soul.
Women who choose to go that route have more than a few screws loose…despite the intentions they are trying to achieve.
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I think the stigma is the part we’re trying to work through.
Should there be one, especially if the proceeds are going towards something like college tuition?
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we would have been better off if WW2 never happened. Our spending on it was just waist [sic].
Well, we’d be better off without all those dead American soldiers, millions of Jews and other minority groups in Europe and general misery certainly. I suppose we should ignore the fact that the war ended the Depression here and paved the way for 60 years of huge economic growth and prosperity here, not to mention the suppression of Fascism and Japanese imperialism. I’m sure the world would be a better place with a continuing Third Reich and Imperial Japan.
But I’m calling bullshit on the objection to the Marshall Plan comparison. Sowell and his ilk push the ideology that government spending has no benefit and want to privatize nearly everything. Because private companies and corporations are already such vigilant stewards of public infrastructure: the big energy companies think nothing of mountaintop removal and associated pollution, oil spills and toxic waste, etc. and would happily ignore their responsibilities if they could; as it is, they fight tooth and nail to avoid as much responsibility as possible. I’m all for responsible capitalism and the profit motive, but it doesn’t necessarily make for good public policy.
The Marshall Plan had multiple purposes of American self-interest, including political (anti-Communism) and economic (we needed strong European economies to export our goods to). A lot of the money was used to fuel those imports. The plan also invested in rebuilding European industry and infrastructure as well as modernizing business practices. And it wasn’t a small amount: $13 billion over 4 years; compared to a US GDP of $258 billion in 1948 when the plan started.
The point is that the Marshall Plan primed the pump that allowed Europe to come back quickly. Contrast the Soviets (who rejected participating in the plan for their East European vassal states) and the economic stagnation of East Europe.
I fully agree with JB: targeted government spending on certain infrastructure is an investment that benefits not just citizens and the nation at large, but also private business that relies on. When that infrastructure fails, all of us–citizens and business alike–suffer.
The failure to realize and do this is a shame and a symptom of our failing political system. Thomas Sowell’s “economics” serves mainly ideology, not the larger public good.
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I dated a sometime-stripper way back before I was married. She was also working on a singing career, which is how I met her. She was actually pretty grounded. She would go back to stripping (just dancing, no lap dances back then) for a few months when money was tight and stop when her paying gigs picked up.
It’s not how many men have oogled the goods, it’s how many men have sampled the goods that matters. And I include any kind of physical contact between a man and a stripper as sampling.
I agree that most dads wouldn’t want their daughter’s stripping, but I would also hope that those dads would have raised them right and wouldn’t reject them for that.
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we would have been better off if WW2 never happened. Our spending on it was just waist [sic}.
Yes, we would be better off without all those dead American soldiers; the millions of Jews and other undesirable minority dead, and general misery. Then again, we probably wouldn’t be better off with Fascism, Japanese Imperialism, continued Depression, etc., that the war ended.
I’m calling bullshit on the objection to the Marshall Plan comparison. Sowell and his ilk push the ideology that government spending has no benefit and want to privatize nearly everything. Because private companies and corporations are already such vigilant stewards of public infrastructure: the big energy companies think nothing of mountaintop removal and associated pollution, oil spills and toxic waste, etc. and would happily ignore their responsibilities if they could; as it is, they fight tooth and nail to avoid as much responsibility as possible. I’m all for responsible capitalism and th profit motive, but it doesn’t necessarily make for good public policy.
The Marshall Plan had multiple purposes of American self-interest, including political (anti-Communism) and economic (we needed strong European economies to export our goods to). A lot of the money was used to fuel those imports. The plan also invested in rebuilding European industry and infrastructure as well as modernizing business practices. And it wasn’t a small amount: $13 billion over 4 years; compared to a US GDP of $258 billion in 1948 when the plan started.
The point is that the Marshall Plan primed the pump that allowed Europe to come back quickly. Contrast the Soviets (who rejected participating in the plan for their East European vassal states) and the economic stagnation of East Europe.
I fully agree with JB: targeted government spending on certain infrastructure is an investment that benefits not just citizens and the nation at large, but also private business that relies on. When that infrastructure fails, all of us–citizens and business alike–suffer.
The failure to realize and do this is a shame and a symptom of our failing political system. Thomas Sowell’s “economics” serves mainly ideology, not the larger public good.
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I don’t care about my husband going to strip joints – it’s part of his business entertaining clients. At any rate for our last Anniv I decided to learn how to strip dance. I found a bunch of YouTube videos and how-tos (I’ll spare you those, they are pretty dry 1-2-3 tutorials – put this leg here put that leg there and bend over like this) but when I found this I knew I wanted to learn how to do it well:
…and I do love my current (barbell) workout routine but this made me want to install a pole in my basement weight room: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b27OlU-75Gk
Wow. Some of these girls really have some skills not to mention serious fitness.
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For as little as a dollar, you get to stand three feet away from a beautiful, sexy woman who’s real, not paper or phosphor dots. Even if for only a few seconds. That’s worth the money.
Feminists sneer, but only because you’re giving money to a hottie, not an Andrea Dworkin-wannabee.
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Broken window fallacy …
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No, Emma, if JB was really a good, moral, mother, she’d shoot her daughter in the eyes for stripping instead of working at Starbucks. /sarcasm
Did you not read the column, Emma? Perhaps Jezebel would be a better use of your time.
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There is stigma with a lot of choices women make, which is all the more reason to do them. Why keep encouraging the stigma by obeying those that disapprove?
“Women who choose to go that route have more than a few screws loose…despite the intentions they are trying to achieve.”
You might want to get down off that horse and check your own hamster.
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Maggie McNeill, “The Honest Courtesan,” makes the point that every argument you can make for banning prostitution also justifies banning abortion. Conversely, every argument you can make to legalize abortion also argues for decriminalizing prostitution.
But any feminist can see the hole in that logic. A woman should be free to choose to kill a male fetus. But women need to be protected from choosing to rent their bodies for the enjoyment of men; besides, if a husband can visit a prostitute whenever he’s frustrated, how can his wife sexually blackmail him?
The same logic works for strippers as for prostitutes.
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HA!
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Home Run! It smells like freshly mowed grass!
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Haha!
Men: Protect your health AND convince your lady that you were just out doing evening volunteer landscaping, at a glitter factory. 🙂
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sorry i don’t support statism of any kind.
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This. I can look at another woman stripping from an academic point of view. But my own daughter? Not so much. And while I agree with JB that we shouldn’t judge women who make the decision to strip (or even prostitute) for a living, we have to acknowledge that there are probably more pitfalls than benefits to the lifestyle. It takes a strong, resilient woman to make the most of this life and not get worn down in the process.
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“yes, I’m talking to you, idiot humanities majors”
Oi! I was a humanities student, I majored in European Studies, and German. I graduated, got my behind to Europe with the intent of living and working in Germany, but ended up next door in Holland. Because I already had a Germanic language under my belt, I picked up Dutch in less than two years. I now work as a freelance translator, selling my native English skills to a very outward-facing country that hasn’t quite got a handle on proper business English…I’m successful and awesome and making money! So not all of us ‘Bachelors of Art’ are making venti mocha frappe no whip lattes for grumpy corporates…
Plus it gives me a cute way of flirting with guys; ‘An opinion on science and engineering? *giggle* I don’t know, boys. I’m a humanities graduate. Although if you need to know the words for ‘bridge’ and ‘metal fatigue’ in Dutch, I’m your gal’ *wink, hair flip*
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what’s “neckbeard” in dutch? cos as an engineer I have one after 4 years of having no proper hygiene whatsoever.
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Something for people to consider about stripping and clubs…all from the benefit of years of being the “safe” table where girls could take a break from customers without catching flak hiding in the back room.
Stripping is not about selling visual appeal. It is about selling the illusion of desire. That an attractive woman (or average or one with a pulse) is interested in the guys on pervert row. Yeah, it’s completely a fantasy, but there are men in bad places emotionally willing to grasp at straws. Men will pay for the illusion of having a woman who responds to them. I’ve seen men light up just by a stripper coming over and asking them how their day was or how life was going. It isn’t sex they are selling it’s the deception of attraction, at least the smart ones know that.
I’ve seen as many men drop lots of cash on an average girl who knows how to sustain the illusion of “you’re different, you’re interesting, with all these other guys its just a job but I enjoy being here with you”. All things equal the girl who can talk to a customer makes the most on the night. Of course, most strippers also are horrible and tactless and therefore lean on their visible assets rather than using their charm.
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That’s hilarious! What a scent.
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Oh… Hi… Um… Someone told me there was a case of Laphroaig here?
Do I have to read the post to get some?
Will it take longer than just going to the liquor store?
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Your measure for success being all those brilliant and wealthy stateless societies in the current world and throughout the history of humanity?
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Hey, jackass. I read another comment where judgybitch said she would absolutely support her daughter becoming a stripper. Maybe learning how READ what you’re actually responding to would be a better use of your time.
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No don’t tell them you support their decision there are times when you say ” you’re being a idiot”. That would be one of those times.
While I can’t stand someone who looks down on strippers and prostitutes, I can see where those people made a bad decision doing what they do. Because your husband that you love so much wouldn’t have married you if you showed everybody your tits, on a regular basis for money.
If your daughter or somebody you know decides to be stripper or a prostitute as a descent person you need to tell them that their chances of finding a fulfilling marriage is shot to hell and back.
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I agree, it is something easy to agree with wholeheartedly when its only speculation, hence my comment.
And yes, regardless of the outcome I dont think any parent should have the “you’re a dumb whore” attitude.
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“And by the looks of it, you should steer clear of Harvard.”
And Excel, by the way.
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So I’m guessing your ideal non-statist state would be…Somalia? Have fun there…
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Oops. Sorry for the double post.
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Or the FATA….
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The problem I see is, in practical reality we can neither marshal the resources necessary for a the equivalent of a new Marshall plan or Manhattan project nor collectively agree on anything. What seems a stupid and short term pointless waste of resources to one is the longterm solution for another. I agree infrastructure is crucial, but what about healthcare? Education? Those are the two largest drains on government dollars and they are also investments in the future (depending on how one looks at it).
From my pespective Guerrilla Economics tactics, a by-product of globalization, have been our greatest undoing. That’s why we now live in a service economy and produce very little. So we aren’t experiencing conditions that are in any way similar to post WWII America. We didn’t have tens of trillions in unfunded liabilities then, and were borrowing to meet some great purpose. Now, we’re borrowing just to meet continuing obligations.
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And in the blog, JB explains why stripping isn’t as bad as it’s painted to be. But you kept on your moralistic high horse, as if she hadn’t written a word.
So that’s why I suggest Jezebel: With all their pearl-clutching, you’d fit right in.
Do you always insult someone who disagrees with you? Or only those of us with the sawed-off chromosome?
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Yeah, jackass was a little inflammatory, wasn’t it?
And that sawed-off chromosome might be the best explanation for why men dramatically outnumber women at the highest levels of intelligence, so maybe it would more accurate to describe us double XXers as having an extra limb?
http://www.livescience.com/24718-y-chromosome-not-junk.html
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You obviously need to be protected from yourself.
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I have no issue with strippers, or this article. I had a problem with someone saying it would be just fine and dandy if their own daughter became one. I found that hard to believe.
I gave absolutely no thought to your gender when I responded to your comment. Zero. I think maybe you’re the one who’s a little sensitive about the chromosome issue. Funny, that would make you no different than a woman who screams “sexist” when a man says something derogatory to her. Maybe you’re the one that has been reading jezebel?
Honestly, I dont think we do disagree with each other about this article. I think it was you missing the entire point of my comment that made you a jackass.
Inflammatory and all….
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Hm tell me more, Dr. Phil.
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I think we’re missing the fine distinction here: there is a difference between supporting a decision your child makes and LIKING that decision. Being ok with your child’s decision, and accepting they have every damn right to make their own choices and refusing to judge/criticise is NOT the same thing as being entirely happy with those choices and thinking they are the best choices out there.
Most parents have aspirations for their kids – that they find a fulfilling, well-paid, prestigious career and a wonderful spouse and kids. When our kids choose to do something different from what we envisioned them doing (maybe they actually want to work in a dead-end job so they have more time and energy for their hobbies, maybe they don’t want to have kids, whatever) we can be disappointed, but still ok with it, still respect their decisions and support them.
If you think of it in those terms – it becomes a LOT easier to believe that JB – or any parent – would be ok and supportive of ‘stripper’ as a career choice.
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I couldn’t agree more. I understand paying for attractive prostitutes. But I just don’t see the logic of giving money to strippers. Why would you pay someone to give you blue balls?
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“Somehow that degree gets further and further away as the easy money and nightlife interfer with studies.”
I’m sure this happens. But a lot of girls do pay for school, and have plenty left over in savings by stripping. I knew a very cute girl in college though a friend. She got her degree and has a normal job now. I never even knew she was a stripper until she accidentally let it slip after she got her first professional job.
If nothing else it offers these girls an easy way to make a lot of money. If they live within their means they can always reinvest the extra cash, and end up with a good nest egg. Not to mention they have the option of picking up a rich guy, and living as a kept woman if that’s what they desire.
Nothing is stopping them from going back to college, getting an education, and holding a less lucrative “normal” job once they’re not making great money stripping anymore. From a financial prospective stripping is the local thing to do. Why not make all that extra money while you can? Just like it makes more sense for an outstanding football player to go to the pros and start raking in all the money he can for as long as he can. Yes the gravy train will end eventually. But you can always go back to school when it does.
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I’d let people throw wads of money in my face all day if I got to keep them afterwards. That’s better then working your ass of at a ‘real job’ to earn it. Anyway if guys at these clubs are acting like assholes, then that’s what the bouncers are for.
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Economics shouldn’t be about politics. It should be about coming up with theories about how our economy works, empirically proving those theories under robust conditions, and putting that knowledge to work.
You can think that the size of our government is too big, and that it should shrink drastically. But still concede that monetary and fiscal stimulus during an economic downturn significantly reduces both the intensity and length of that downturn.
JB is 100% on point regarding that.
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