Clothing stores for fat people? Hooray! Clothing stores for thin people? You fat-phobic, bigoted asshole!

8 May

 

The two stories I’m writing about today popped up almost back to back in my inbox.

 

af

 

One is about the asshole CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch, who is pursuing a niche marketing strategy (which has never happened before in the history of the world).

 

Niche marketing?!? What’s that?

 

Oh, is that like when you create a website that specifically caters to women?

 

Oh, never mind.

 

Here’s the story:

 

http://jezebel.com/abercrombie-doesnt-want-gross-fat-people-wearing-their-489583439

 

Written by Madam Lardass herself, Lindy West.

 

Lindy

 

“In every school there are the cool and popular kids, and then there are the not-so-cool kids,” [CEO Jeffries] told the site. “Candidly, we go after the cool kids. We go after the attractive all-American kid with a great attitude and a lot of friends. A lot of people don’t belong [in our clothes], and they can’t belong. Are we exclusionary? Absolutely.”

 

Abercrombie & Fitch doesn’t even MAKE clothing above a size 10 for women because ASSHOLES, obviously. And we are talking an American size 10, which is pretty fricking roomy.

 

See this chick, with her beefy thighs and huge belly and rolls of back fat?

 

size 12

 

She’s a size 12. That’s how fat you have to be before you can’t shop at A&F.

 

One of these ladies can shop at A&F. The other one can’t.

 

fat and thin

 

This has nothing to do with what constitutes beauty. Lots of men prefer a size 12 woman, as long as she is fit and firm and has a pleasing hip to waist ratio.

 

prefer

 

This is about a business targeting a very specific market and offering exclusivity. Why? Because you can charge a price premium, that’s why. It’s not a novel concept. Why do people go to Starbucks when they can get pretty similar coffee at 7-11 for a quarter of the price?

 

http://www.quickmba.com/strategy/generic.shtml

 

Starbucks sells the Special Snowflake illusion. Why there are 87 000 possible drink combinations! For a mere $5, we will brew something that meets your exacting and exquisite taste. It’s all for you! And only you!

 

snowlfake

 

http://www.neatorama.com/2010/08/21/starbucks-facts-it-has-87000-possible-drink-combinations/

 

Of course, Starbucks sells 8.2 million cups of coffee every day, so the odds that you ain’t really that special are pretty good. Cognitive dissonance, anyone? Oh who cares.

 

I’ll have a Non fat half caf triple grande quarter sweet sugar free vanilla non-fat lactaid extra hot extra foamy caramel macchiato, please.

 

starbucks

 

A&F follows a similar strategy. They want young, attractive, cool people to buy their clothes and part of the value is that ONLY young, attractive and cool people CAN buy their clothes. Actually, anyone a size 10 or under can buy their clothes, but you will feel young and attractive and cool because MARKETING.

 

You will look like a giant asshole, but you will feel super amazing and A&F will laugh all the way to the bank.

 

ellen

 

Now, here’s the next story:

 

http://jezebel.com/finally-you-guys-a-friendly-plus-size-store-for-men-493080534

 

Okay, so A&F are jerks for excluding fat people, but Destination XL is awesome for excluding thin people?

 

It’s all part of the same mindset: have your cake and eat it too. From the looks of it, eating cake is something Lindy does on a regular basis. Jesus woman, have a slice. Not the whole thing!

 

cake

 

We can have stores for fat people, and stores for all people, but we can’t have stores for thin people.

 

gym

 

We can have gyms for everyone and gyms for women, but we can’t have gyms for men.

http://jezebel.com/jackass-suing-his-gym-for-their-442-women-only-hours-pe-476604412

 

We can have clubs for everyone, and clubs for women, but we can’t have clubs for men.

 

ladies

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-301932/THE-WOMEN-BEHAVING-BADLY-OVER-MEN-ONLY.html

 

We can have hockey teams for everyone, and hockey teams for girls, but we can’t have hockey teams for boys.

 

http://judgybitch.com/2012/12/03/girls-only-league-ok-boys-only-league-no-way-you-sexist-pig/

 

We can have rights for humans and we can have rights for women, but we can’t have rights for men.

 

http://jezebel.com/5941876/mens-rights-activists-shocked-that-their-misogynistic-posters-are-being-torn-down

 

What’s curious about all these particular examples is that they are all on the wrong side of history. Fat people are a biological anomaly. Humans were not intended to be fat, which probably explains all the negative health consequences that come along with choosing to eat until you can’t move.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/

 

Men are more physically competitive and enjoy sports, especially organized team sports, far more than women. Excluding them from gyms and hockey teams in the hopes of making women more competitive and more like men is a losing proposition.

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201303/using-athletics-close-the-gender-gap-in-politics

 

Men control most of the political structures and institutions in the world and that doesn’t look like it will changing any time soon. Women don’t WANT that power.

 

Young women are less likely than young men ever to have considered running for office, to express interest in a candidacy at some point in the future, or to consider elective office a desirable profession.

 

http://www.american.edu/spa/wpi/upload/Girls-Just-Wanna-Not-Run_Policy-Report.pdf

 

In other words, women don’t want to do any of the hard work to create, maintain, oversee and strategically intervene in an economy or society, but they would still like all the privileges that come with doing the work.

 

Oh, okay. That seems reasonable.

 

You know, there IS one way to have your cake and eat it, too. Gobble that sucker down, and then puke it back up. There. You ate your cake, and you still have it, too.

 

barf

 

Of course, we recognize that particular behavior as a mental illness: bulimia. Eventually, it will kill you. But hey, at least you’ll be able to shop at Abercrombie & Fitch!

 

Feminism: it really is a mental illness.

 

And I think I’ll make a cake now.

 

Lots of love,

 

JB

 

 

92 Responses to “Clothing stores for fat people? Hooray! Clothing stores for thin people? You fat-phobic, bigoted asshole!”

  1. TMG May 8, 2013 at 15:32 #

    “Fat-shaming is awful! Except when we shame people who care about men’s human rights, because they’re a bunch of overweight neckbeard virgins who live in their Mom’s basement!”

    Like

  2. Alex May 8, 2013 at 15:34 #

    i think the argument gets really weird when the phrase ” you can’t have your cake and eat it too, and in your case, you shouldn’t even have the cake” or such pops up

    Like

  3. Z May 8, 2013 at 15:48 #

    heh, I made one of those homemade chocolate pudding pies last week but I messed up at one of the key points so it didn’t set up right in the fridge. It still tasted good, but… FAIL haha. Mr. Z called it Chocolate Failure… but he sure seemed to eat quite a lot of it. Still, I want it to look like the picture, so… I’ll be trying this until I get it right. Just not too frequently because… rich and caloric!

    And…

    “She’s a size 12. That’s how fat you have to be before you can’t shop at A&F.” LOL

    Here in the US, sizes have become almost useless measurement tools because of vanity sizing. A 12 in one store is an 8 in another and a 14 or 16 in another. It really just depends on if they are selling illusion or reality.

    Hollister is kind of like A&F that way. I don’t know… I think these “thin only” (where, you’re right… thin is pretty generous), stores are good. Maybe more fashionable stores need to have a size cut off like that. Then… if you want to shop there, you put down the cupcake. I mean it’s not just a ‘mean girls’ thing, it’s a health thing, too.

    Obviously the message: “If you stay within this weight range you are less likely to get diabetes and lose body parts” doesn’t make a dent… how about if we sweeten the deal with: “You can shop at Abercrombie.” ?

    Like

  4. Rmaxd May 8, 2013 at 15:56 #

    Feminists are the ultimate mysoginists

    Like

  5. The Karamazov Idea May 8, 2013 at 16:09 #

    A refreshing take on this manufactured piece of outrage. Mine is here.

    It’s shocking how dogged feminists have been about sytematically removing the three innate qualities a woman has measurable control over in romantic competition: her health, her attitude and her chastity. Should any of us be surprised that the quality of the average American woman begins to plummet?

    Like

  6. judgybitch May 8, 2013 at 16:19 #

    Competitive sponge cake eating!

    Hilarious!

    Like

  7. sqt May 8, 2013 at 17:08 #

    Vanity sizing is bizarre. I weight the exact same weight I did before I had kids but I wear a smaller size. And I know my waist isn’t any smaller than it used to be.

    Like

  8. sqt May 8, 2013 at 17:11 #

    I discovered A&F sweats last year and had to buy a bunch of them because they are the softest piece of clothing I have ever owned. I actually have a genetic disorder that gives me insanely sensitive skin and soft fabrics are a godsend. So I hope I don’t look like a giant asshole when I wear my A&F sweats, but if do– oh well.

    I have to admit the outrage kind of makes me laugh. My sister-in-law put up an indignant post yesterday on Facebook about this and all I could think was of course you’re outraged– you’re fat. I’m really glad she lives far away from me and I don’t have to deal with her getting all huffy when I wear my sweats.

    Like

  9. sqt May 8, 2013 at 17:13 #

    *weigh the same weight.* I knew I should have rephrased that.

    Like

  10. driversuz May 8, 2013 at 17:48 #

    You and GWW should consider teaming up and going on tour.

    Like

  11. driversuz May 8, 2013 at 17:49 #

    p.s.
    Re-posting!

    Like

  12. Days of Broken Arrows May 8, 2013 at 18:06 #

    Back when I was a teenager and worked in the local mall, they had a store for fat women called Lerner, which was the store that dare not speak its name. It didn’t come right out and advertise it was for fatties, but no decent looking girls even went in, and us guys knew where NOT to scope when looking for the hotties.

    Like

  13. TMG May 8, 2013 at 18:19 #

    I have a theory that Feminists are training women to make themselves unattractive to men, thereby producing more bitter man-hating Feminists.

    Like

  14. Z May 8, 2013 at 18:42 #

    It’s magic!

    Like

  15. Z May 8, 2013 at 18:42 #

    Or making it more possible for ugly feminists to get dates.

    Like

  16. Z May 8, 2013 at 18:42 #

    fattie hater! 😛

    Like

  17. LostSailor May 8, 2013 at 18:54 #

    It’s a core tenet of feminism: women-only spaces are essential for the development of feminism (trans-women need not apply), men-only spaces: Patriarchy!

    Men control most of the political structures and institutions in the world and that doesn’t look like it will changing any time soon. Women don’t WANT that power….In other words, women don’t want to do any of the hard work

    Actually, I don’t think it’s that they don’t want the power or to do the work; I think they really do want the power. What they don’t want is the responsibility. Politics means having a very public profile and responsibility to constituents. Just as feminism wants rights without obligations, many women will tend to shy away from politics because they can’t face being called out when shit blows up.

    A couple of pull-quotes from West’s article:

    this type of kneejerk anti-fat disgust

    There is nothing knee-jerk about my fat disgust. It is a well-though-through, considered disgust. A number of years ago, I was disgusted with myself, so I lost 45 pounds.

    Fat people won’t be able to shed the stigma of being unfashionable frumps until we’re actually able to purchase fashionable clothes…

    Sorry, but fat people like Lindy won’t be able to shed the stigma of being fat frumps until they first shed the lbs.

    I think we should start an anti-thin-shaming movement. Lindy is a thin-shamer!

    Like

  18. LostSailor May 8, 2013 at 18:55 #

    C’mon, face it, sqt. You really just wanted to be with the cool kids…

    Like

  19. sqt May 8, 2013 at 19:03 #

    Shhhhhhhhh…..I don’t want anyone to know. 😉

    I try not to be too judgmental. I went through a period of really struggling with my weight. I have an honest-to-god thyroid issue but it’s not bad enough to warrant medication. It took me forever to realize that I just can’t eat wheat. Can’t do it. It not only causes me terrific pain thanks to widespread inflammation but it makes me gain weight. Once I cut it out of my diet all my weight issues disappeared.

    But the women on my husband’s side of the family refuse to give up anything. They endlessly obsess about their weight and try every fad diet you can think of. Last year my sister-in-law made it a week on a juicing kick before she gave up. But they simply will not make permanent lifestyle changes…. so I lose patience. I will say this though– my sister-in-law can cook. When we visited them last year she made a peach-blueberry cobbler that was just about the best thing I ever tasted. Her pulled-pork is orgasmic.

    But I have seen first hand that fat will ruin a marriage. My in-laws are basically roommates (separate bedrooms and everything) because my mother-in-law got really fat. Like over 300lbs fat. She has lost about 50lbs and is trying, but I doubt she’ll get much smaller. My father-in-law is a super active guy and he just isn’t attracted to her anymore. They get along and seems to live companionably- but there’s no intimacy. I love my husband and would hate to end up like that- so I don’t eat crap.

    Like

  20. sqt May 8, 2013 at 19:04 #

    Better late than never, right?

    Like

  21. LostSailor May 8, 2013 at 19:27 #

    And some pull-quotes from the Katie Baker Geezabel post:

    But the [MRA] group isn’t so much pro-men as it is virulently anti-women. Do the members deserve the right to free speech?

    Of course not. If they’re not pro-feminist, they have no rights to much of anything, much less free speech! Silly men!

    Not every topic is worthy of debate; until women enjoy pay equity and unfettered access to reproductive health services, among numerous other should-be rights, it’s more than unnecessary to discuss whether feminism has “gone too far” — it’s dangerous and wrong.

    Once, in a far-off land, rights were things like free speech and free assembly. Other things had to be earned. But who believes in fairytales anymore? In the real world, feminism won’t go far enough until everything a woman could want becomes something she has a right to. Not a right to aspire to earn, but an absolute right, and since it’s her right to everything she wants, it must be given to her. Immediately! What are you men doing standing around gawking? I said Immediately.

    And don’t forget the cake!

    Like

  22. Stingray May 8, 2013 at 19:31 #

    One needs to ask, how much cognitive dissonance can a person handle before their head explodes?

    Good article. 🙂

    Like

  23. Z May 8, 2013 at 20:28 #

    I’m not sure it still exists but there used to be a website called My Fat Spouse that was about husbands mostly but some wives, struggling with a spouse letting themselves go epicly. I thought it was sad how nasty people were to some of these men. It wasn’t that they didn’t LOVE their wives, but they weren’t sexually attracted. You cannot CHOOSE what you find erotic. Almost nobody finds 300 pounds of blubber erotic. I know that hurts people’s feelings, and I’m sorry for that, but it’s reality. And the saddest part is when we lie to girls/women about this and they start down a path where the love of their life will be a friend chicken wing and a cat, rather than a flesh and blood man.

    I eat crap… but in moderation. Really eating one small junkie thing a day, surrounded by clean eating can still come in easily under calorie budget for “normal food intake” to maintain a normal weight.

    Like

  24. Liz May 8, 2013 at 20:29 #

    Hey….what happened to the men in chains images? Now there’s fat women and a girl heaving over a toilet bowl. I call shenanigans!

    Like

  25. Z May 8, 2013 at 20:29 #

    FRIED chicken wing, not friend chicken. I really need to proofread.

    Like

  26. Z May 8, 2013 at 20:30 #

    It’s because women have evil anti-men secret meetings when they get together so they assume men do the same instead of just talking about golf, hunting, or pretty women. Oh wait… they talk about pretty women. Patriarchy!

    Like

  27. Z May 8, 2013 at 20:31 #

    HA!

    Like

  28. sqt May 8, 2013 at 20:37 #

    ” Almost nobody finds 300 pounds of blubber erotic.”

    Not unless you’re a chubby chaser– and I don’t get that fetish at all.

    My mother-in-law went through this whole woe is me phase and wanted everyone to blame my father-in-law for everything, but really, a lot of us sympathized with him. Mostly it was an attitude thing. She gave up and it showed. I give her full credit for pulling herself together and making an effort to get back in shape- I hope she succeeds because I think she and my FIL would be happier.

    I shouldn’t say I never eat crap. I’m like you. A little bit here and there. My big indulgence is wine. Thank god I can still drink wine and eat chocolate.

    Like

  29. Z May 8, 2013 at 21:24 #

    I’m such a lightweight with wine. It’s humorous how long it takes me to drink a glass of it. My weakness is Frappuccinos. I really need an intervention if we’re being honest about this.

    Like

  30. sqt May 8, 2013 at 21:42 #

    I can’t do coffee. Part of it is the taste. It is so bitter to me that my whole face puckers if I try to drink it. Same thing with beer. But coffee also tears up my stomach. I’m so sensitive to it that it only takes one sip for me to start reaching for the antacid.

    I think my husband would love it if I had a light tolerance for wine. But one glass doesn’t really affect me much. I stop drinking once I get a buzz (usually) because I hate feeling out of control. I’ve never had a hangover and didn’t get “drunk” (though I wasn’t even that drunk) for the first time until I was 25. But I do love the taste of a nice light white wine. Mmmmmm.

    Like

  31. Z May 8, 2013 at 22:03 #

    Have you tried woodchuck? It’s hard cider, or what I like to call adult apple juice. I don’t like reds, but i like whites. Sauvignon blanc and reisling being my favorites.

    Like

  32. sqt May 8, 2013 at 22:28 #

    Oh yes. Love the hard cider.

    Like

  33. The Karamazov Idea May 8, 2013 at 22:43 #

    Unfortunately, one of the most covert and successful tasks the Marxist underground achieved in the US was the rearing of several generations who could hold 2 completely contradictory ideas as true at the same time. A society with a strong tolerance for hypocrisy was the only fertile ground for the implementation of a mindless underclass controlled and manipulated by masters.

    This is the soil in which the idea that drunk men having sex with drunk women is only rape for one party sprouts in.

    Like

  34. LostSailor May 8, 2013 at 23:14 #

    Actually, we do plot world domination at the secret meetings–at least the one’s I run–we only pretend to smoke cigars, drink whiskey, and play poker…

    Like

  35. Goober May 8, 2013 at 23:22 #

    Me being me, I’m just sick of people telling other people what they can and can’t do with their own personal property, and by golly, that’s what a business is. If It belongs to me, then fuck off, I’ll do whatever I damn well please with it. If you want a say, come buy in and take the risk with me and help make decisions. You don’t get to make the decisions without taking the risk. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. Oh, wait, you want benefit without responsibility? Huh, sounds kind of like feminism…

    Had a good post about this the other day. http://notboutthing.blogspot.com/2013/04/discrimination-in-employment.html

    Like

  36. Kitsunegari May 8, 2013 at 23:59 #

    Abercrombie is for suckers! You want to pay $100+ for ripped jeans with bleach spots and holes in them? Be my guest.

    Mad TV’s Abercrombie skits are mad funny, though:

    Like

  37. Random Angeleno May 9, 2013 at 00:49 #

    Was reading a men’s forum somewhere where they were talking about eastern European women and how slender they were. Turns out many of them don’t eat any better than in the West, they’ll still eat junk food, the difference is that they eat less. Sometimes a lot less. They’ve grown up that way and are used to it.

    Like

  38. Z May 9, 2013 at 01:01 #

    Okay, but does your world domination involve keeping women locked in cages? Wait… don’t answer that… I’m afraid to know the answer. And also, context is key.

    Like

  39. Z May 9, 2013 at 01:03 #

    It really is all about portion control, and stopping when you aren’t hungry instead of when you’re full. That alone… even without adding in the exercise will keep most women at a normal healthy weight. It’s just not that hard. but portion sizes are out of control in most places, particularly in the US.

    Like

  40. Gonzaga May 9, 2013 at 09:30 #

    JB, what do you say about this:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22459815 ???

    Like

  41. judgybitch May 9, 2013 at 09:36 #

    Quite a few people have sent me this link.

    I have some thoughts indeed…..

    Like

  42. Clover May 9, 2013 at 09:59 #

    I’ve not changed weight since I was 14, but at that age I bought a size 10 t-shirt (I think that’s a US 6?) and it fits me to this day.
    Then recently, I needed new jeans, and ended up going to Gap because they are one of the few shops that stock down to a UK 4 (US 0)…and when I got to the changing room there was still space to fit both fists in the waistband.
    Mis-labelling clothes to flatter people’s egos is a huge pain for anybody who isn’t fat, ’cause it’s so hard to buy clothes to fit now. I never used to mind people being overweight, but at this point I want them to get control of themselves so I can find something to wear outside of the children’s section!

    Like

  43. judgybitch May 9, 2013 at 10:11 #

    Same here, Clover. One of my favorite retailers has now made their XS (extra small) so huge it no longer fits me. I literally can no longer buy clothes there unless I want to look like I’m wearing my big sister’s hand me downs.

    And I’m not shopping in the children’s section. I’m 5’6 and everything is too short.

    It’s ridiculous.

    My BMI = 21.8

    Smack dab in the middle of the normal range. Normal now is 5’2 and 150 lbs. BMI 27.4. That’s in the overweight range. I know there are some flaws with BMI, but I think most of those apply to heavily muscled, tall men. Not short, fat women.

    It’s one thing for retailers to chase the chubby market segment. Go for it. Fatties have money, and any business is free to take it.

    But I dislike how being fat has been normalized with clothing sizes. A size 18 whopper doesn’t have to confront the state of her body when all her clothing labels say size 10.

    I wouldn’t have a problem with standardizing clothing sizes. If you sold an 8 oz jar of peanutbutter that only contained 6 oz, you would be in some shit very shortly. So don’t sell size 18 pants and call them a 10.

    http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/BMI/bmicalc.htm

    Like

  44. Liz May 9, 2013 at 10:47 #

    Odder still, often when those women move to the US they get fat. It’s like fat is catchy. When I lived in Europe I was ten pounds lighter than I am now (I am a size 2 and/or zero now).

    Like

  45. Liz May 9, 2013 at 11:06 #

    Remember when the 5,7,9 store was named that because it sold the smallest sizes…5,7, and 9 at the time? Now it’s the equivalent of 0,1,2.

    The images above for women of various sizes seem to reflect the old ones. I know I’m not as skinny as the size 6 girl up there, but I would swim in a size six these days. Even though in my early teen years a five was kind of tight and I’m bigger now.

    Like

  46. Z May 9, 2013 at 12:10 #

    I was reading about this from someone who works in the clothing industry and they “claimed” that clothing sizes have nothing to do with anything but a labeling device associated with their own patterns and that all these teeny sizes are simply because there is such a larger range of sizes and lots of bigger people now, but this still doesn’t really explain why they didn’t just make the size numbers bigger and bigger. i.e. why screw with what a 6 or 8 is? Why not just keep making numbers go bigger? I mean it makes a lot more sense than going in the opposite direction for the smaller sizes.

    When somebody has to shop couture to be able to find anything small enough to fit them, there is a problem, and lots of petite, smaller women seem to have this problem. But petite, smaller women are not a sizeable enough chunk of market share for most clothing designers to worry about.

    Like

  47. Z May 9, 2013 at 12:20 #

    That may be normalized, but it’s not normal… at least not from a medically healthy perspective.

    And yes, the flaws with BMI don’t apply to people either underweight or really overweight… they would apply to like a female athlete who is 5′ 6″ and 140 pounds (even though that’s still well in the healthy BMI, there are a lot of women who would balk at being that height and that weight, but pushing scale weight down further and further just for a lower and lower scale number only leads to being “skinny fat” which isn’t hugely attractive, either. (though it’s a little bit healthier than fat fat.)

    In the DEFINITELY overweight category BMI is a fairly accurate indication of one’s amount of fat… but not so for athletes who can’t be as obsessed with the scale as a “skinny fat” girl would be. But the better body composition and slightly higher weight is still healthier and sexier, which is why waist-to-hip ratios, measurements, and actual body fat percentage using something at least as accurate as calipers is much more reliable after a certain point than BMI, and definitely more reliable than dress size. Since the range of sizes is so all over the place and changing all the time, it can create people who “lie to themselves” in the “too fat range” and people who have completely skewed views of what is healthy and normal in the “too skinny” range because not every clothing store uses vanity sizing or uses it to the same degree. So if you’re a size 8 in one store, but if you shopped at a more expensive store you’d be a size 2 or 0 and you know a girl who does have that kind of money and is a “2” or a “0”, then now you’re a “fat” size 8.

    On the other side of that… a size 8 that used to be a 12 or 14, normalizes at least “too chunky”.

    So, to avoid all those head games on both sides, I’d stick to waist-to-hip, measurements, and body fat percentage. BMI works unless you’re an athlete. Even then, it usually has you still in the normal range particularly if you are female, but i know a lot of women who would freak the hell out if they were 5′ 6″ and 140 pounds, no matter what their actual body composition, so the unhealthy attitudes go in both directions.

    Like

  48. Z May 9, 2013 at 12:27 #

    I think part of that honestly is all the weird chemicals that are allowed in US food. A lot of it can seriously screw with one’s endocrine system, which can make weight gain easier (depending how susceptible any given individual is to thyroid issues and such)… plus portions… out of control here. And, since most people are overweight, most people have friends who are overweight. Those friends don’t care as much about what they shove in their mouths. So you just about have to pick health-nut friends just to stay normal-level healthy here. But, a HUGE help is to stop eating out and cook food at home, that way you know what’s going into it. And even if you make a dessert on occasion, you WATCHED all the sugar and butter and etc. that went into that… it’s harder to lie to yourself under those conditions.

    Like

  49. sqt May 9, 2013 at 13:48 #

    Yes. This. I would rather wear the size I wore in high school and at least know I fit into the same size than have to guess where the “smaller” size I wear today fits on sizing scale I went by years ago.

    But we can’t have all those fatties actually confronting the fact that they’re wearing a size 20+ can we?

    Like

  50. Z May 9, 2013 at 14:20 #

    lol do I have to say it? waist-to-hip, body fat percentage, measurements… unless you’re an athlete weight/BMI. Easiest ways to maintain consistency and know where you actually are on the grand scheme of fitness vs fatness or too-thinness.

    The funny thing? Sizing used to be WAY different. Like a size 10 used to be the first size and the measurements for it were “way” different much tinier. But it doesn’t follow that there was a size 10 and also a size 4. Size 4 didn’t always exist at all.

    You might find this enlightening:

    http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/the_birth_of_size_10/

    The mistake people make is in assuming: “Well if this was a size 10, then a size 6 must have been much smaller.” But there was NO size 6. It didn’t exist.

    The way patterns were made and sized was an arbitrary choice by manufacturers for consistency within their brand. It wasn’t supposed to be X size = fat or thin or ideal or whatever. It only came to mean that later.

    So it doesn’t matter whether a clothing manufacturer decided to call something size 8, size 28, size A, size JDH, size whatever. These are totally arbitrary things that do not “correlate” with any given actual size of a human body. For that you need to get out a tape measure, look in the mirror, ask someone who will be honest with you, check out where you are on the scale, get out some calipers and get someone who knows how to use them to check things out, etc.

    Whether or not there is an active cabal of vanity sizers, these numbers are numbers we as consumers have attached psychological value to but they literally mean nothing. If one person’s size 8 is a vanity size that’s really a “12 or 14” (whatever that means in a world of disparate sizing anyway), and another person’s size 8 is “not” a vanity size but equals a vanity size 2 or 0… these numbers mean nothing and are harmful to women who are both too thin and women who are too fat because it creates weird expectations on one end and self-delusion on the other.

    Like

  51. danny May 9, 2013 at 15:30 #

    Well at least the Jezebel harpies of stupid are using that Rockefeller money to eat well. Would not be a shocker to see “Fatwalk” begin. Seeing a photo of Lindy West makes me feel like I did when I saw a slutwalk, I wanted to flush my eyes out with vodka and seek therapy.

    Like

  52. M3 May 9, 2013 at 16:30 #

    For the second day in a row, a coincidental topic or subject has spanned across blogs where a comment i made on one is applicable to the other…

    http://sunshinemaryandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/05/08/hump-day-lite-reading-boners-are-not-the-boss-of-you-ladies/#comment-3833

    LOL

    I am finally regaining some sensation..

    Like

  53. M3 May 9, 2013 at 16:46 #

    The only way feminist women can compete is to lower the bar for everyone.

    Everytime i think of a feminist woman (or Lindy West) i hear that old Saturday Night Live skit jingle…

    LOWERED EXPECTAYYYYYYYSIONS

    Like

  54. LostSailor May 9, 2013 at 17:22 #

    Keep women locked in cages? No, we let the go-go dancers out at the end of their shift…

    Like

  55. LostSailor May 9, 2013 at 17:25 #

    But, a HUGE help is to stop eating out and cook food at home, that way you know what’s going into it.

    Yes. This. I lost my weight by changing my diet (low-carb), limiting portions (I actually used smaller plates), and cooking most of my own meals, including bring a home-made lunch to work each day, instead of buying deli sandwich or something. Lost weight, saved a lot of money, and can whip up a tasty meal in a jiffy…

    Like

  56. ladysadie1 May 9, 2013 at 18:00 #

    The fatties are all outraged at Abercrombie! Just look at this: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=533686773344467&set=a.150369195009562.30262.115027358543746&type=1&ref=nf

    Like

  57. Z May 9, 2013 at 18:10 #

    HA! That’s kind of you!

    Like

  58. Z May 9, 2013 at 18:13 #

    Yup. Not. That. Hard. I was underweight in high school. I was the girl people kept telling to “eat a sandwich”. I ended up learning a lot about diet/nutrition and fitness to figure out how to do it. (not how to eat a sandwich, how to make the freaking sandwich stick!) Part of it was my brother was also super skinny (genetics!)… and he started working out and studying nutrition and he started to really fill out. So I took that and then did some reading of my own and applied the principles to help me gain to a healthy weight. Then along the way I passed some of that on to friends who were struggling to either lose or gain. It was good stuff to know anyway because once you figure out how to gain weight (if you have a fast metabolism), it’s not unreasonable to assume you might keep gaining if you don’t know how to manage/control/maintain once you get to your goal.

    Like

  59. feeriker May 9, 2013 at 19:30 #

    Dates with MEN?

    Not likely.

    Like

  60. feeriker May 9, 2013 at 19:51 #

    Yep, it’s amazing that it doesn’t register with most people that a business = private property (IOW, if I don’t want to sell my merchandise or services to black transgendered libertarian vegetarians, then goddamn it, I DON’T HAVE TO. Let them take their money somewhere else!) It also amazes me that people anencephalically react to stories like A&F’s latest ploy as if these stores were the equivalent of the old G.U.M. stores in the former USSR: i.e., the only alternative if you want to buy some specific type of good.

    News flash for all you easily offended cerebral titans out there: if Uebercrummy and Bitch offends you with their ads, then go elsewhere to shop. I have a sneaking suspicion that in the same malls full of overpriced retailers where this chain usually places its outlets, there are AT LEAST a half dozen other retailers offering the same type of merchandise at competitive (for a retailer, anyway) prices and whose only criteria for selling you what you want is that you’re money be the same shade of green that theirs is. By railing at A&F, you’re giving them undeserved attention that isn’t even needed and wasting precious life-minutes much better spent on more productive things. If you really want to say “fuck you, you arrogant and insensitive assholes” to A&F, just do it by taking your business elsewhere. An empty wallet hurts entities like that more than do empty words.

    If it gets to the point where the Amerikan transformation to full-blown communism is complete (which probably won’t be too far off) and A&F is made the sole distributor of adult clothing, THEN start worrying and complaining. Until then, don’t dignify them by allowing them to occupy any of your grey matter.

    There now, wasn’t THAT easy (even if a bit long-winded)?

    Like

  61. feeriker May 9, 2013 at 19:54 #

    GOD, do I miss MAD TV, especially its first four seasons. Reminded me of the earliest years of SNL, when that show was still funny.

    Like

  62. feeriker May 9, 2013 at 19:57 #

    I think a lot of it is in the GMO foods being shoved down our throats. But also it has to do with the food culture. When I lived in Germany for six months I lost 25 pounds in the first three I was there because I could NOT eat at the pace at which Germans eat (i.e., downing a full-course meal at midday within 30 minutes).

    Maybe I need to go back…

    Like

  63. M3 May 9, 2013 at 20:19 #

    It really is the high corn based north American diet. Corn and Corn based derivatives like high fructose corn syrop is in EVERYTHING. and because corn is so heavily subsidized and cheap, it means the poor can only afford the shit foods instead of healthy foods. And garbage foods are “engineered” to be tasty to the point of being addictive, hence over indulging.

    Societies that don’t rely so much on processed junk rarely show this kind of obesity epidemic. Only in America, land of no fat olestra and zero calorie aspartame can you find a land covered in manatees.

    Like

  64. judgybitch May 9, 2013 at 20:22 #

    Brown rice, oatmeal, carrots, apples.

    They don’t cost a whole lot.

    Takes a tiny bit of skill to make them taste good. Curry powder always works.

    I don’t buy this poor people can’t afford good food argument.

    Bullshit.

    Being poor sucks. Sugar feels good. And it tastes awesome.

    Lets eat the pain away.

    Like

  65. M3 May 9, 2013 at 20:30 #

    Heheh. Fair enough. I do love your Passion. 🙂

    Although there is a hint of truth in the argument. I just watched the documentary Food Inc. and it’s really just abominable to see how subsidized the processed industry is compared to ‘normal’ foods (even the genetically modified ones).. before you even begin to get into cost of organics.

    I look at it as a tragedy when a tiny box of grape tomato’s costs $2.49 but you can get a burger and fries for the same price, it’s just more ‘economical’ for a low wage family to buy shit off the dollar menu.

    Especially when the empowered wyman head of the household doesn’t want to cook either.

    Like

  66. judgybitch May 9, 2013 at 20:46 #

    The empowered bitch who won’t cook

    There’s the problem

    Like

  67. feeriker May 9, 2013 at 21:08 #

    One reason why a lot of us “unempowered men” have taken up the slack in the kitchen, and often with healthier results.

    My wife, who in her own way is a great cook (albeit of the non-healthy ‘soul food’ variety), just won’t anymore except for rare occasions. Because she “just doesn’t feel like it” (and no, she is NOT ‘tired from a hard day’s work, because she doesn’t) now that it’s just the two of us empty-nesters. I’ve partly rectified the problem by recently cooking only primal dishes (meat, fish, fowl, fruits, veggies, nuts, and spices) which deprive her of her beloved carb-laden starches and sugars. It ALMOST lights a fire under her ass when she gets “the cravings,” but it still doesn’t stop her from whining about how my cooking is “not the way [she] cook[s].” And thank God for that, or I’d be another one of those “half-ton dads” by now.

    And yet she wonders why I’ve started dropping pounds like a starving refugee while she remains a constant 300…

    Like

  68. Z May 9, 2013 at 23:44 #

    LOL oh… come on… let them dream!

    Like

  69. Z May 9, 2013 at 23:48 #

    This obviously isn’t feasible for everybody because of time constraints, but gardening is cheap (once you get set up and you’re composting and etc.) particularly if you grow heirloom varieties where you can save your seeds. You do that, then you can buy beans in bags in bulk because they last a long time… you can also buy any extra needed canned goods in bulk. My dad bought a cow one year… like… a whole cow… and we had meat in the freezer for a LONG time (like over a year), and it wasn’t that expensive all things considered. There are a lot of ways to eat healthy on the cheap if you have to, it just takes a little more work and creative thinking to get there.

    Like

  70. Z May 9, 2013 at 23:53 #

    Reading that post now, it’s awesome. Read a few of your posts, too… still working through your slut archive. Also awesome. Where has this community of snarky people fed up with feminism been all my life?

    Like

  71. LostSailor May 10, 2013 at 00:09 #

    I recently joined a CSA with delivery right across the street. Living in NYC, gardening isn’t really an option, so this is the next best thing. Think I’m going to have to get creative with the recipes…

    Like

  72. LostSailor May 10, 2013 at 00:13 #

    My ex is also a good cook (Cajun influence) but was terrible at everyday cooking. I did the majority of cooking when we were married, mainly because I can come home, take a look in the fridge and pantry and usually come up with a tasty meal in 30-45 minutes. The ex, by comparison, has to plan everything out in advance, with menu plans, lists, etc.

    She went along when I started a primal diet years ago, but she, too, just couldn’t give up the carbs. Which is why I, too, dropped the lbs and she didn’t. Though, to her credit, she never whined about it…

    Like

  73. Z May 10, 2013 at 00:33 #

    What is a CSA?

    Like

  74. sqt May 10, 2013 at 04:31 #

    Yeah, I’ve always been a range of sizes versus one set size because different manufacturers size differently. The funny thing is that I find my size is more stable now (in that a size 6 in one store is the same as a size 6 in another store) but when I was 20 I could wear anything from a 5 to a 9 depending on where I shopped.

    Like

  75. sqt May 10, 2013 at 04:39 #

    I know! I feel like I’ve gone down the rabbit hole- but in the best possible way. It’s like I found my people- I’m so excited!

    Like

  76. Z May 10, 2013 at 14:21 #

    Interesting! Maybe vanity sizing is getting less popular?

    Like

  77. Z May 10, 2013 at 14:25 #

    This community will only grow because I think a LOT of people are fed up with “Jezebel unchallenged”. I hope a lot more non-Christians speak up, though. I have no problem with Christians, I just don’t want people to get the wrong assumption that this is some kind of “religious issue” and that the only people with any traditional gender values MUST be really religious. So it would help if it was a wide range of spiritual views including non-spiritual speaking out.

    Like

  78. sqt May 10, 2013 at 18:09 #

    Religion- ha! I’m not religious at all. I do respect the faith of others, I’m not making any judgement about that. But there are a lot of us who have grown up in liberal, feminist families or in states like California ((sight)) and we’re just tired of all the so-called equality being shoved down our throats. It’s almost like the same societal rebound you saw against fundamentalist religion- only now the pendulum is swinging the other way.

    Like

  79. sqt May 10, 2013 at 18:09 #

    ((sigh)) Why can’t I type anymore? I swear, it’s like I have typing dyslexia.

    Like

  80. Z May 12, 2013 at 05:36 #

    That’s good to hear! I’m glad this is not just mainly a “Christian issue”. It needs to be something that spreads beyond just any one religion IMO. Because if it’s just concentrated in one religion than the subtle message is that it isn’t relevant for everybody else, but it is.

    Nice! I’m glad it’s swinging the other way!

    Like

  81. Take Back Your Face! August 4, 2013 at 21:27 #

    We have so many stores just for the thin, at least here in the States. Their “larges” are at most “mediums”, and that’s as large as they go. Of course there are plenty of stores that carry big sizes as well.

    There are stores for almost any size here.

    Like

  82. Elizabet August 22, 2013 at 21:03 #

    I am not fat phobic or anything bout finally a store that has clothes my size is a dream come true. There are enough stores for fat people.

    Like

  83. Had enough. December 30, 2013 at 02:33 #

    Alright.. I am very thin, I can’t find clothing that fits me. Is there anything wrong with wanting a store that has clothing that fits me properly I can’t walk into a clothing store and ask the clerk “Is this your smallest size?” without being given a dirty look. I don’t agree with attempting to brainwash all of society into thinking that only thin is beautiful, but I am sick of feeling like a child in clothing as well as dealing with scrutiny for being thin. I’m sorry that a lot of individuals have to deal with the struggles of weight gain, but it seems that clothing isn’t even MADE for my size. If it is, it is for “petites” – as in 5 ft – 5 ft 4” tall. I am 5”6. I feel as if I can’t ask for specifications without others thinking it is a horrible, insulting thing. Frankly though, I’m frustrated. A&F are giving those who struggle with wellness and staying fit more of a reason to segregrate thin individuals into even more of a negative category.. it’s disgusting.

    Like

  84. courtney March 8, 2014 at 18:11 #

    Living in the south & being thinner is hard. People are mean to you & nothing fits. It doesn’t help help I’m short. People tell me “you’re TOO SKINNY!” I’m 5″1 I’m not supposed to weigh a lot. I actually got rejected for a job in a clothing store because there sizes start at like 6 & I wear a 0. It was like reverse discrimination. I just have to keep reminding myself I will live longer than these mean girls.

    Like

  85. Rachel April 26, 2014 at 20:29 #

    Haha. I know what you mean… it can be nice to go to the Gap though and find that your size pants didn’t fit anyone else and therefore go on clearance for $5. 🙂
    I also think it funny that there is a stigma about thin= you must work out like a maniac. Which then leads to resentment, because, you know, if everyone else had “all the time in the world and an easy life” like you do, they could then be your size. Which is not true… I’ve been working like a maniac and am generally exhausted, but it turns out that I just turn out skinny because of it. For some people stress= “time to eat” and others stress= “I’m not hungry just let me sleep”.
    What do you know, people are different.

    Like

  86. Marissa June 7, 2014 at 19:14 #

    This website is seriously offensive. I mean I have an extremely fast metabolism so I am really skinny and I get judged more than any chubby people at my school do. P.S. I would and will never judge people based on gender, size or race.

    Like

  87. Ron Reddick June 13, 2014 at 13:37 #

    I know it is an old thread, but stumbled across it going through threads off of another JB post.

    Just had to add my 2 cents, as it is not just a woman’s issue with clothing and sizes. Being a guy in his 50’s that is still in great shape (gym, clean eating, and thank you for working as an expat most of my life free of USA GMO food) i have a tough time shopping for anything that fits. If I go to main stream retailers the clothes hang around my waist in order for me to get them to fit properly on my shoulders. Now I am not some meathead bulked body builder, but a 5’10 guy that weighs 185 with 10% body fat.

    My only options in the states anymore seems to be A&F for tee’s (plan, no crappy words) J Crew Slim fit (thank you) and suiting from Ralph L Black Label, which costs a small fortune. For the most part I have had to keep my wardrobe fairly small due to lack of choices of items that fit me, or are age appropriate, (I like the Mad Men look), classy but not over the top.

    Living back in Europe is great, the clothes fit, but the costs are higher then the states, but at least i now have options.

    And another great observation I made this past week, I was looking at my old high school year book from 73, and not very many fat kids in the bunch, and the average size was pretty trim. Got me thinking, so googled class photos from 83, 93, 2003, 20013 and guess what, you can see that decade by decade the average of the kids get fatter and fatter each decade, until 2013 in which most of the kids looked obese. And this was just from a small sample of my high school in Chicago.

    I refuse to be ashamed of being fit and trim, and I am tired of not having choices in clothing that fit. We need more companies like A&F that support the people that work hard at keeping healthy and fit and let the fatties complain all the want (at least then they need to but down the triple bacon laden 2 lb burger with the bucket of fries while they type)

    Keep it up JB, I have been remiss in posting lately
    Ron

    Like

  88. Jack Strawb December 8, 2014 at 23:11 #

    Being a thin, swimming man in the NE isn’t easy. Inexpensive clothing never comes in my size, and it’s NEVER tapered. Even the clearance bins were empty of my size so I ended up teaching myself how to taper shirts. Then, when I could afford it, I had someone else do it for me (and do it better).

    Still, I could shop for hours and not find a shirt that would fit someone within twenty pounds of my weight and I’m thin, not skinny.

    Like

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