Today I’d like to introduce you to a blogger/columnist I think you will find quite interesting. Her name is Claire-Louise Meadows, and she blogs at http://afternyne.com and contributes to the Huffington Post UK edition http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/clairelouise-meadows/.
Claire offered her take on a Daily Mail article titled We fought for equality. So why do greedy wives still sponge off their ex-husbands?, and today, I want to offer mine.
http://afternyne.com/2013/05/09/on-money-grabbing-why-its-nothing-to-be-proud-of/
Let’s start by playing a game of what if…
What if I woke up tomorrow and decided, you know what, this not buying me flowers bullshit is a deal breaker. I want a divorce. I have not contributed money to my marriage for the past 11 years, but goddamn it, I have contributed value.
I want the house, the car, the kids and all the furniture. I want child support, half of Mr. JB’s pension and alimony to cover the time it will take me to find a job. Oh, five years ought to do it.
And I’m going to get it. All of it. I have the courts on my side and the law to back me up. And I will have all the sympathy of our friends and family. Remember that time he picked me up in a bear hug and broke my rib?
I think I remembered that wrong. He actually got really mad at me and he beat me up. Punched me in the ribs. No, wait! He pushed me down the stairs. He did whatever it is you have to do to break someone’s rib. I don’t know. I’ll figure out the details later. I can make this shit up as I go along.
Jesus, it can take DECADES for a woman to recover from that kind of abuse. I may never have to get a job! I can live off his salary until the pension kicks in.
Super win for me!!!!
It sounds like a joke, but IT’S NOT. I could do all of those things. I could walk away with everything.
And if I did, it would be his fault. He should have bought me those fucking flowers.
These are the kinds of divorces the Daily Mail is talking about, and I agree with both Claire-Louise and Liz Hodgkinson that this shameless fleecing of men needs to stop. The laws governing divorce were created when the world was a very different place, and they are now being used to abuse men and reduce them to what amounts to indentured servitude.
Yes, that’s for you, Liz.
In my circle of friends alone, I know of countless men who have fallen foul of greedy ex-wives who seem determined to see the men they married reduced to penury.
It’s easy for an attractive woman to use her charm and wiles to entrap a rich man, all the time calculating the cash they receive when they can call time on the marriage.
One friend had been married for about 20 years when his wife decided she wanted a divorce. There were no particular grounds, and no one else was involved. Each sought out a lawyer, and the wife was awarded 85 per cent of the joint assets.
There were no children and she had never worked. After the divorce, she moved into a small cottage with enough money to see her out. He had just enough money to buy a small flat, and had to start all over again. He got virtually none of the marital assets accumulated over the years, including a house worth £800,000.
But, I can also see another side to this argument.
Let’s play another round of what if….
The sad truth is that I’m getting older. I haven’t really let myself go, but I’m not the taut, firm twenty-four year old I used to be. Three pregnancies have left their marks on me, and I spend an awful lot of my days in yoga pants and UGG boots. They’re fucking awesome UGG boots, but still. Mr. JB looks at me, and it just isn’t there anymore. And I make him feel old.
You know who doesn’t make him feel old? That twenty-four year old PhD student he met at work with her perky tits and firm ass. The way she giggles and flirts with him makes him feel amazing. Like he’s still got it. She thinks everything he does is hilarious and she’s in awe of his experience and knowledge and expertise and once he starts banging her on his desk, it’s all over.
He’s trading me in for a younger, hotter wife who is also not quite such a mouthy, judgy bitch. Of course, he has no idea that ten years from now, she’s gonna be in yoga pants, complaining that he doesn’t buy her flowers, but no matter. Right now, he feels like a god!
So he sits me down and gives me the talk: I want a divorce.
Oh yeah? Fuck you. I have spent the last decade of my life making it possible for you to excel at work, keeping you healthy and happy, caring for your children and your home, and those things are now mine. You wouldn’t have the income and position you have without me, and you WILL pay me for those things.
That’s the kind of scenario that divorce and alimony laws were designed to address.
http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1949&context=lcp
I’m not certain where the statistic comes from, but I have come across it repeatedly: 17% of divorces are caused by infidelity.
http://proactivechange.com/relationships/statistics.htm
I sincerely doubt that ALL of infidelity was committed by men, and furthermore, that the cheating partner went on to marry their paramour. But let’s assume it’s true. Every divorce in which infidelity is cited as the main reason for the divorce involves men cheating on their wives, and every single one of those men went on to marry their mistress.
It would still only be 17%! That’s a very small number. The other 83% fall under the “irreconcilable differences” label.
All of this suggests that the first scenario I described is the most likely one. Most divorces are initiated by women. And most of them are for completely bullshit reasons. The top two reasons cited are verbal abuse and emotional neglect. He called me a bitch and didn’t buy me flowers.
http://divorcesupport.about.com/b/2012/06/24/why-most-divorces-are-initiated-by-women.htm
Most men are blindsided when their wife requests a divorce. Because she has never given any indication that anything is wrong.
I call it “The False Okay.” I think a lot of women tell the very same lie for years on end. They say “okay” when they don’t mean it. They tell their husbands, “everything’s fine,” even when it’s not. “Keeping the peace” is what they call it. They are, they tell me, getting through the day. It is all about the argument they simply do not want to have.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lynn-toler/why-so-many-men-never-see_b_815502.html
Part of the reason women don’t have the argument they need to have is that there is no consequence for letting shit build up for years and years and years without saying a word. If women knew they would walk away with NOTHING, they might be a little more inclined to open their mouths and speak.
That is why, despite the headache of administering such a program, we need to bring back the concept of fault to divorce. Spouses who want to walk away from a marriage should be free to do so for any reason they like, but when it comes to dividing assets and determining custody, we need to return to the concept of guilty and innocent.
You’re not happy and don’t feel fulfilled anymore? Okay, sweetie. That’s too bad. Off you go, but you will NOT be taking the house and car and kids with you. Get your clothes and your shoes and your self-help books and GTFO.
Personally, I think infidelity is a stupid reason to end a marriage, but if that’s going to be the reason you cite, then you’ll need some proof. Screen-cap those sexts, honey. You husband has been abusing you? Prove it. You can’t just SAY IT. You need to prove it. And that proof will guide judges when it comes to the division of assets.
As it stands, the law does an excellent job of protecting those few women like myself from being left destitute should my husband decide to trade me in. It’s doing a piss poor job with the others, though. Even divorcees admit that divorce is far too easy to obtain, removing all incentives for couples to grow the fuck up and deal with their issues. And by “couples”, I mostly mean “women”, since they are the initiators in the majority cases.
And that’s what it comes down to. Women refusing to engage their husbands when they have a problem, allowing resentment and bitterness and unhappiness to build until it becomes unbearable, and then blaming all of that on their husbands. And we give them no reason NOT to do that.
Double double
Toil and trouble
Fire burn
And cauldron bubble
The Three Witches from Macbeth leap to mind, for some reason.
If we brought the concept of fault back to divorce, women would have some pretty damn good reasons to work on their marriages rather than heading for divorce courts where they can rest assured they will walk away with most of the assets and the children.
You want a divorce? Okay. You’ll need a reason. And if your precious feelings are the only reason you can come up with, well, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, sweetheart. The door will be staying attached to the house your husband and kids will continue to live it, with or without you.
Oh, and as an aside, I should tell you that Mr. JB now buys me flowers quite regularly. He fucking hates it, but he does it. Because he knows I like them. Know HOW he knows that?
I told him!
Honey, you’re the best. And all the phones are on their chargers! And my keys are in my purse.
Maybe.
Lots of love,
JB
judgybitch 
85% of the man’s assets? Holy cow is that unfair. Even if my husband left me tomorrow for the hot 25 year old you mentioned I’d never, ever be entitled to 85%.
My husband worked with a gay woman who got fleeced like this. She was the “man” of the relationship while her partner stayed at home. The partner gave birth to a kid that was created using her (the co-worker’s) egg and donor sperm and then the partner did the whole stay-at-home mom thing. When they split up the partner took pretty much everything. I guess that’s a kind of equality- right?
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I think that there will always be problems around. If its not fundamental then it will be something trivial. Since in the early days, people was in a grind more or less to secure their survival, they stuck together and fought it out – now that things are not…..well in any way affecting their actual fundamental expectations of life, the trivial things are brought to the forefront.
I was chatting with a sort of separatist today. He was sort of covertly pressing for a piece of land for his own people as their own “country”. I was sort of intrigued as their community was one of the most flourishing and well-to-do of the land and I had never felt any threat to them anywhere in the land. Coming from a historically disadvantaged community, I thought there might be something else playing in the background that I don’t know, so gave him the benefit of doubt and inquired about their most pressing problems as of now. And the only things he came up with was about readdressing some historical stuff of 30 years back – he was not even born at that time!! And this guy seeks a separate nation “to live freely”.
I think too much comfort is as bad as too little. If there is not something pressing, then there must be something perceived…………..it seems people are just looking for ways to fight. And their energy which was used to create in the face of survival is now used to destroy in the face of comfort.
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Hurray! 🙂
**Clap Clap Clap Clap**
(and, um, nice writeup too…)
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Why in the world would the higher wage earner get married?
Most of the time that’s the man, but women are slowly catching up. The divorce laws are designed to screw the higher wage earner, so again, mostly men. And women tend to always get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to custody of the children.
So………..again…………why?
Why would a man ever want to get married?
You can count on a wife that will lose 85% of the reasons that you married her, plus the law letting her rape you financially upon exiting the relationship, regardless of how she behaved in it.
Why do men get married?
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Beats me
Most expensive blowjob ever
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This blog is about 30 years too late. The house has already burned down and society is moving on. Marriage? What was that? Oh, something they did back in the day. Back when people bought music on vinyl Lps. It’s gone now. Replaced by the hook-up. Relationships will now be served like fast food. Not very satisfying but you get in and out quickly so you can get on with your life.
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That’s sad.
But probably true.
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“This blog is about 30 years too late.
The house has already burned down and society is moving on. Marriage? What was that? Oh, something they did back in the day.
Back when people bought music on vinyl Lps.
It’s gone now.
Replaced by the hook-up.
Relationships will now be served like fast food.
Not very satisfying but you get in and out quickly so you can get on with your life.”
OUCH.
But true.
With the exception of some religious conservatives & fundamentalists.
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Especially if it was only one! Lol!
Myeh, 90 percent of millionares are married, almost all to their first wives for 28 years on average. Marrying smart is a good investment. Definitely the most important and potentially life altering one you’ll ever make. Choosing wisely is better than not choosing, but choosing poorly is a thousand times worse.
And the good ones won’t follow you around forever without a commitment.
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That “twenty-four year old PhD student” is mind altering. If she has the feminine wiles to match her look (and, of course, her ability to look like that is a feminine wile), well, wanna know what power is? That’s power.
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I got out easy it seems. But then, I have a sane woman for an ex-wife. And we’ve managed to stay friends (she’s doing a brunch tomorrow for my Mom–and my preggers niece and hubby–for Mother’s Day).
We were actually divorced under the last remaining “fault” divorce laws, in NY, which was converted to no fault just as ours was going to court.
New York had something like what you describe, JB. Even though divorce was litigated as an “adversarial” case, there was a provision, which we used, that allowed for “no fault” in uncontested cases. The parties had to file a notarized separation agreement stating the agreed upon separation of marital assets, etc., and had to live apart for one year, after which they could petition the court to turn the separation agreement into an actual divorce. (Though, technically, I think it was recorded as a case of “constructive abandonment” since I moved out.)
The key here is the couple had to agree in advance about all the details. If not, into the meat-grinder of divorce court you go. Now, if you could put some of your sensible restrictions on division of property into that process, something like this could start to undo the unfair system that has been spawned upon this country (indeed, the Western world).
Nah, who am I kidding. That’s not going to happen…
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The “McRelationship.” Hell, why not? It sure fits in completely with everything else characteristic of contemporary society.
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I recently had a conversation with a very fair-minded egalitarian feminist who happens to be divorced, and has a teenage son. Her husband did run off with a floozy. I don’t blame her for getting a divorce. There are instances where the need to divorce is genuine, adultery being one of many, and instances where a generous share of the joint assets is also deserved.
However, women are absolutely drunk with power right now and I really hope single women desperate for husbands and like-minded women wake the F up soon and start challenging this stuff. I’m not holding my breath.
I’m on the record as saying that women do not love or care for men like men care and love for women, and if anyone wants to challenge me on that, all I can say is “What other explanation do you have for this madness?”
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Think of it this way: When they invented marriage, the average lifespan was 27 years. We’d both be dead back then. It sort of figures that as we live longer, the idea of that many more years with one person ain’t gonna work for most people.
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If women lower their expectations enough they will find men still willing to marry. But we all know that’s not going to happen.
Hookups and MGTOW forever! Don’t say we didn’t warn you, ladies!
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Marriage is almost dead in the west right along with our fertility rate. The western world will very likely be muslim by the year 2100 if not earlier. In all the madness of feminism somebody forgot to reproduce.
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Not me!
I have three!
And a brutal 2nd trimester miscarriage.
I tried, dammit!
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there was a post on 9gag (wonderful source, i know) about men and women love. first part showed men having their hearts in their dicks and women having their hearts where they should actually be, captioned “the awful truth”. second part was captioned “this is the real awful truth”, same pic, but with the man’s heart in his chest and the woman’s in her head. finished by saying that only women think about love, men just love. which makes this a reiteration of the last part of your comment
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how about we just turn divorce into annulment and tell the women to pack their shit up and leave? that’ll get em thinkin for sure. this excludes the cases where most of the assets should rightfully belong to the now ex-wife of course
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It’s what they wanted. To be free and independent. And while there’s no expiration date on independence, there is on dating. So if husband number 1 doesn’t quite work out, don’t be too surprised if husband number two is a somewhat less desirable catch.
Ah, who are we kidding. There’s not going to be a husband number two. And soon, there will be no more husband number ones.
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Now that’s the FUCKIN’ truth.
That’s what the the FUCK they wanted.
So they’ve no right to complain.
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Welp. Since we’ve basically agreed that men care more than women, and it’s a statistical fact that women initiate 70% of the divorces, can we:
-Build into the wedding vows, laws, and social structures that women are just using the vagina for a house?
-Can we agree what the price will be for a wife between 20-40 before we get married, so we can pay her and trade her in smoothly once the vagina gets old & the titties sag?
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Hmm… only unilateral no-fault divorce is a broken idea. There are examples of no-fault divorces of childless couples when both parties decide to break amicably. It usually happens after a long period of separation, when the marriage remains in name only – only as a formality to get rid of, eventually.
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My buddy’s wife cheated on him repeatedly. When he found out she didn’t want to stop and suggested they have an open marriage. He refused and initiated divorce proceedings.
Despite holding a joint JD/MBA degree from a top school she had stayed home with the kids. She played the “I’m a poor housewife” routine. He got f*cked. Just f*cked in court.
So she cheated and as a reward she got half their assets plus a nice big pound of flesh, erm I mean alimony check every month. If he stops working the court decides what he “should” be making and awards her part of that. It really is slavery. He did manage to get joint custody and she accused him of doing it to eliminate child support payments to her. The entire experience crushed him for years.
(I didn’t have the heart to suggest he get his kids tested for paternity.)
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Men love women. Women love what men do for women.
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Marriage sort of is just a formality when there aren’t any children involved. Things get much more difficult once children are involved. On the one hand, it’s a gift beyond price. On the other, with high value comes a high price. Life is simply never the same. If it is, you’re doing it wrong.
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You can do this now, but you probably wouldn’t have many takers.
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I’d just like to add, that some of us get divorces without ripping the man off in the process of it. My exhusband got the house, the car, and only pays me 250$ a month, which he has to pay by law (and gladly does), because I have primary custody of the kids and therefore provides them with clothes. I didn’t seek alimony from him. I didn’t set out to destroy his financial situation, I just wanted out of the marriage.
Also, I’m not claiming to be a snowflake – I just wanted to remind, that not all swoop in and run off with the majority of the money.
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Therefore provides and pays for their clothes and daycare. Trust me, the 250$ doesn’t cover the expenses, which is fine, since I didn’t have my kids to breed little cashcows. 😉
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*
(Sorry, my bad, commenting from phone.)
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You’re the exception, not the rule.
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So in other words, we have to keep up the pretense.
Okay well, men need to know that sex for women is a means to an end 80% of the time, and they need to know that she can’t stay 22 forever, and then what? Once you understanding what she’s trading the sex for, and that you’re going to lose that young hot girl that you married, then what?
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You tell me. You’re in charge of your own destiny.
Someone forcing you to marry?
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Here’s the thing. Smart grown ups don’t marry a person over a pair of nice tits and ass. It’s a bonus, not a seller. They marry for qualities they believe will stand the test of time, they want to become a family unit because they are in love. Unfortunately, most women are at least a little nutty. Some are certifiably nutty. But most people are not inherently evil in general. Let’s start there.
Most of the problems with marriage are directly related to the system of no-fault divorce JB mentioned and would be vastly ameliorated with the elimination of no-fault. To get a divorce, the seeking party should either establish the fault of their spouse, or take all responsbility for breaking the contract themself. This would still permit the bailing party to get out of the marriage, but they can no longer engage in divorce theft.
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Okay, well, I agree with the part about reducing or eliminating divorce theft.
I was just expressing my desire for men to make an informed decision; I myself am not being forced to marry, no, and I was just bellyaching about the truths of married life.
I personally hate that vagina is just a tool, so, as you said, unless I find some outstanding additional qualities that can make me overlook the fact that my wife is just banging me for her security’s sake, and because she doesn’t want to be alone, and because she wants to manipulate me with it, then no, I see no need to put 50-85% of my assets on the line.
It’s just a means to an end for her. It’s all just an act from women. Now that I know that, my only question is, how much am I willing to risk/pay for that bedroom theater.
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I have to step in and correct you here. The average life span being ~30 does not represent average life span as it pertains to healthy adults. That average includes infant mortality, which was MUCH higher in early times. For those who lived past a certain threshold in childhood, their lives lasted much longer: think closer to 60.
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Probably helps that your husband, being a smart and perceptive kind of guy (well, I assume he is, or else you probably wouldn’t have wanted to marry him in the first place) knows in advance that if he _did_ decide to “trade you in for a younger model”, he’d be exchanging a wife who would never exploit her superior legal position to impoverish him, for one who absolutely _would_ do so, and would be hunting for the first viable opportunity.
Younger women are pretty, no doubt about it. But no amount of pretty is going to compensate for the fact that Marriage 2.0 is all about the husband strapping a shotgun to his neck and handing his wife permanent control of the trigger. You find a woman you can trust with that much power, you marry her as fast as you can convince her to say “yes”, and you don’t look back. No amount of pretty is worth throwing that away for.
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With that cynical view on life you will definitely never get burned.
On the flip side, it isn’t really a recipe for longterm happiness either. I can’t think of anything worthwhile in life that comes easily and without cost or risk. Having kids isn’t always a picnic either, and with the joy being mortal there’s always the chance of loss and pain, but it’s definitely worth it.
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well, husband was married to very fair-minded egalitarian feminist….
I don’t blame him for running off
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How did your husband get the house when you have primary custody of your children? Did you have other resources that immediately placed you in a functional home following your divorce? Or did you and your kids live in some 1/2 bedroom apt?
I think most women end up with the majority of the finances/assets because they typically receive full custody of the children. I don’t agree with women automatically getting the kids, but whoever (husband or wife) gets custody, shouldn’t they also have the majority of the assets to support the children that they are taking care of?
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I have a career job, which I’ve had all along, meaning I have an income to provide for my kids and myself. My exhusband made quite a lot more than me, but I wasn’t interested in chrushing him financially as well as emotionally.
I had the luxury of staying on decent terms with my exhusband, meaning I stayed there a few months after I told him it was over. He wanted me to, I didnt force it, but being able to stay there for a bit, gave me the possibility to find a good place for me and the kids. I stayed in the same neighbourhood to not change the kids daycare, friends and so, but it also meant going from a big house, big car (cars are -really- expensive here due to taxes), to a smaller, much less flashy house and an although new (so I dont have to worry about mechanic bills), tiny, tiny car. It also meant selling some really expensive jewellery to pay some starter bills, and it means I have -very- little for myself now when it comes to pocket money. Every single month I’m basically f*cked financially, but I make ends meet, cause I bloody well want to.
Also, our society is different here, daycare is much cheaper than in the States, and due to one of the highest tax income rates, we get free healthcare for everyone, and all families get ‘kids money’ every third month, which is upped when youre a single parent. Tax income rates are up to 60% by the way.
So no, I live in a nice, small but newish house. I have a lot of priveledges compared to other single moms, even here, but I have a budget extremely tight due to it. But that’s okay. I would still make the same decision as I did those couple of years back.
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Also, here its common to share custody, which we do, but one holds the address for the kids, which is the one getting the socalled ‘kids money’ from the state. That one is also the one who has to pay for all the expenses for the kids. Fathers here are very in on the parenting and typically share the kids, as we do, but the one who pays the expenses receive the 250$.
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This is why I laugh when women whine about how they are so powerless and oppressed. Um… have you SEEN how the laws are written? The law is written so that men are women’s bitches. The very idea that we could be the “oppressed minority” (over half of the population is not a minority), is laughable. The fact that women can somehow get away with this speaks to their mad evil skillz.
It’s not shocking why fewer and fewer men want to get married. Why they hesitate to pop the question. That’s called self-preservation instincts, not being an asshole.
Also, the “man trading his woman for a younger wife” trope is not played out nearly as often as people want others to believe. A good, solid, decent man, just doesn’t do that crap, particularly if they have a good wife.
I’ve got an uncle who got divorced and then married a significantly younger woman. Some boob looking at it from the outside could say he “traded her in” but that wasn’t the case. She cheated on him, multiple times and claimed he neglected her, and initiated a divorce. He fought for them. He wanted to stay married EVEN AFTER her cheating. He wanted them to go to marriage counseling and fix it. But she wouldn’t have any of that. She wanted to be FREE!!! Well, she got her wish and then married a guy who LITERALLY lived in mommy’s basement… what a trade up (snark), then he went on to marry a much younger and sweeter woman… he wasn’t thrilled about their age difference, though, but she’s a good match for him.
The truth is often quite a different narrative than it looks like on the outside.
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I notice how, you flipped it back on me, but didn’t deny it. You said that my attitude was cynical, but you didn’t say it wasn’t true.
This is what I’m not spending 30 years with.
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Or older. There were plenty of genuinely old people back in the day if you got past the whole childhood illness phase of things.
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Yes. This. You know, I understand where a lot of men are coming from… but not all of us are the enemy. Not all of us are like this… and just like men are hurt by hearing constantly that they are all potential rapists… gee, maybe it hurts the actual good women to hear “women are this” “women are that” “women can’t love as much as men” blah blah blah.
I mean… good luck with that, but it only CONTINUES the battle of the sexes. Somebody’s gotta lay down their weapons at some point. And no matter what “the whole world is doing” (I happen to think most of the whole world is stupid assholes… male AND female, but I don’t let it stop me from finding high quality people to surround myself with and try to get through this life with), there is always going to be an exception.
So be smart and look for that exception. Or be alone. Or be a player. Who cares, but stop whining because the world won’t change on your whim.
And Liz, obviously most of this is me just venting in general, not directed at you!
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“So be smart and look for that exception. Or be alone. Or be a player. Who cares, but stop whining because the world won’t change on your whim.”
Didn’t think I was whining, just being honest, just venting, as you said you were. But you’re right, the world is not going to change for anyone.
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You know, when I got divorced (no fault, mutual agreement to split, minimal legal involvement, amicable, no kids) – I had several people asking me why I didn’t get a better deal. I knew I probably could have – most likely he’d’ve agreed if I’d simply asked for more. But I suggested a split of our assets that seemed fair, and he agreed to it. Apparently I’m weird for not being out to get everything I possibly could out of it.
Similarly, I was advised to get myself a proper job (I was temping at the time) before I started trying to get pregnant so I could take advantage of maternity leave (I’m in the UK – we get really generous terms!). Um, no thanks – I have no interest in lying by claiming I plan to return to work in order to get cash under false pretences. Sure, money is nice – but being a decent human being is more important.
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Judgybitch, this is literally the best post on the topic I have ever read.
My divorce had elements of all of the divorces you cited. My ex-wife stayed home with the kids, loved us to death but she had psychological problems that caused serious tension for me. I asked for a temporary separation after 13 years of being together, 10 years of marriage. The purpose (in my mind) was to develop some independence, reduce her emotional and physical reliance on me and come back together. Little did I know… Can you guess the outcome? Yep, overnight in jail. Filed for divorce the second I got out and my life is so much better now, two years later.
I feel a little bad about it because I know she loved me and the family and I should have handled the decision to separate in a much better way. I don’t regret the decision I took after her actions but I will always regret not being more empathetic to her reaction when her entire life was being changed.
As it stands now, it is cheaper for me to be divorced than married to her so that is a good thing. She is living a decent life, as am I and I have cut off all contact. She only ended up with 10% of the assets which is enough for maybe a nice vacation and even that, she has to pay taxes on it.
It’s so depressing though, that the system works to separate families who love each other. My only regret is the way I handled that week when I asked for separation. The night before she sent me to jail, we were having some good horny sex (she wanted to reconcile) and she started crying and saying “I love you”. Makes me a little sad. I know she loved me.
What she wanted, of course, was the sympathy.
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I’m not saying you personally are whining. It’s just… at some point I get a little overloaded by all this “women are bitches” “women are evil” “women can’t love” crap. I mean Jesus Christ… I’m a WOMAN. And I’m a good woman. and this just isn’t going to end any of the problems between men and women.
It’s not one person’s venting comments, it’s that it’s so frequent from so many corners. And the last thing I want to do is shut down other people’s ability to express themselves… frankly I think men are shut down ALL the time, so it’s got to come out somewhere. Women, on the other hand, have carte blanche to vent about everything all the time.
I get that. But the effect on me is that it’s still going to be overwhelming at a certain volume to hear it when it has nothing to do with me. Of course I can choose to ignore it, and that’s something I’m working on. I don’t believe in controlling other people, but I also realize I may do it subtly just by bitching about something I could just as easily ignore or skim over.
I guess it just seems blatantly unfair that men can complain about how they are treated like they are all abusers and all rapists, etc… but when a man implies all women are a certain way, we shouldn’t cry foul if we aren’t part of the problem?
I understand that it’s not really directed at ME. But it’s still hard to hear over and over and over when I am not part of the problem just because I have a vagina.
I guess I wish people would qualify their statements more instead of saying “women” do this and “women” do that. You know… I do it sometimes too… I gender stereotype against my own gender because I’ve had far more drama from other women than from men. Men tend to be much more reasonable at the end of the day, but still implying something is a whole gender’s problem is just the reverse of feminism and it won’t end up with better results. IMO.
I just find it frustrating and am venting the same as you.
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I guess also part of what I’m trying to say is… I made my blog and came to Judgy Bitch’s and others because I’m so tired of feminism. But… by hearing constant ANGER from men all the time… frankly… I’m afraid it’s going to eventually turn me against men. There is only so much people want to hear before they start shutting down.
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Well, from everything you’re saying, probably a ‘good’ woman is the exception and not the rule. If you hear it frequently from many corners, if it seems to be male repressed anger coming out, if 70% of all divorces are initiated by women, then, that says *something.*
What is needed, I believe, is a ‘Happily Married Men’s’ blog.
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Hmmm, that’s a good point. I hate to admit that but yes… right now a “good woman” IS the exception, not the rule (whereas a man who is not a domestic abuser and not a rapist is the rule and not the exception).
So I get that they are different things. I just didn’t think about it while I was making the analogy.
I guess my frustration also is mainly that I do not think women are this way right now because they are “evil”. I think it’s because they don’t understand their hypergamy and how they’re being manipulated into listening to those urges (i.e. nobody is teaching them any different), and they have an entire culture marinating in man hate and feminism.
It’s not easy to buck the entire tide of culture. I understand men are at their wit’s end here, but I just don’t think even most women are de facto “evil”. I think that a small portion of CRAZY women have been given a podium to speak from for too long, and social engineering has run its course.
A big part of the solution would be larger and larger numbers of women standing up and speaking out and letting their own voice be heard that is AGAINST feminism.
The more women who do that… maybe the more other women will start to see that feminism is crazy and hurting them, and maybe then more men will be willing to extend the olive branch again and we can work toward some kind of co-existence. Because men and women are not meant to live in such strife with each other.
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This is to that other thread we were on, but I ran out of reply options.
Judgy Bitch just recommend Dalrock’s blog to me, and I’m already loving it, as well as the discussions he has there: http://dalrock.wordpress.com/
Also, I tend to try & look at the end of things, not the beginning. Most things in life start out with energy & fanfare, but long term relationships are kind of like running a marathon. So many people start out, so much joy initially, but how many people make it to the finish line and claim the prize?
That’s what I meant when I said, what would really help us men are blogs & voices like Dalrock, telling us about how great marriage is, and how happy they are. Unfortunately those male voices are in a minority, because most men don’t spend their time talking about how great their wives are, or how happy they are that they got married.
And men don’t treat any other good decision that way; a job, a stock choice, a favorite team, a good movie, a good restaurant….men will happily & heartily share.
Why then don’t more men spend time extolling the virtues of their wives, and how happy they are that they got married?
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“And men don’t treat any other good decision that way; a job, a stock choice, a favorite team, a good movie, a good restaurant….men will happily & heartily share.
Why then don’t more men spend time extolling the virtues of their wives, and how happy they are that they got married?”
Hm. I think most men are goal oriented. There seems more a point to sharing a good restaurant tip or stock tip or movie tip. They aren’t going to share their wives, so waxing poetic about how much they love their wives is kind of pointless really…who are they trying to convince? Unless they’re swingers…”Look at this photo of my naked wife! Isn’t she hot? Still smokin my pole after 15 years and 5 kids!!”
Seriously. Exception maybe religious groups like Promise keepers who sing about thier wives. And that’s mildly creepy.
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I hear you, but she is nice, attractive, and does understand that men face many unfair challenges women don’t have to deal with. But yeah, who knows what she was like to live with.
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Heh, just checked out Dalrock.
That looks like a good site! (and uplifting thank God)
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I’m not sure what to make of this answer.
Yes, anytime you start a family with someone you are taking a risk. I’m assuming you wouldn’t have a wife who you thought was “just banging” you for “her security’s sake, and because she doesn’t want to be alone, and because she wants to manipulate me with it”.
That’s not a situation people usually willingly go into, ergo I assumed it was a cynical hypothetical and not a statement about all of reality in general. If you really believe this you should definitely never marry.
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“And Liz, obviously most of this is me just venting in general, not directed at you!”
No problem, vent away woman! Always like to hear you thoughts. 🙂
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“Seriously. Exception maybe religious groups like Promise Keepers who sing about their wives. And that’s mildly creepy.”
hahhHAHAAHAH. That was great.
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🙂
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Damn, misread what you wrote and hope my last response goes to the trash pile.
Apparently you ARE married. I hope your wife isn’t simply using her vagina as a tool that is just an act and means to an end for her.
I am a huge marriage advocate and I think sometimes negativity can take on a life of its own. If I’m a crab around the house all the time, it’s going to impact my marriage. I try to be loving and kind and my husband responds to that. We’re all creatures of habit and association. I value him highly, and he values me. And love is a verb!
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Me: I notice how, you flipped it back on me, but didn’t deny it. You said that my attitude was cynical, but you didn’t say it wasn’t true.
This is what I’m not spending 30 years with.
Liz:
Damn, misread what you wrote and hope my last response goes to the trash pile.
Apparently you ARE married. I hope your wife isn’t simply using her vagina as a tool that is just an act and means to an end for her.
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No, no, I’m not married.
What I meant was, now that I know the truth, I’m not excited about the prospect of spending years with someone that is just acting and manipulating.
I’m sorry, but too many women have admitted it for you to convince me otherwise; of course women get horny & have needs, but for many women, sex is duty sex or a means to an end. If it’s not that way for you, your husband is a lucky man.
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I am a huge marriage advocate and I think sometimes negativity can take on a life of its own. If I’m a crab around the house all the time, it’s going to impact my marriage. I try to be loving and kind and my husband responds to that. We’re all creatures of habit and association. I value him highly, and he values me. And love is a verb!
Then again, he’s a lucky man. Unfortunately women with attitudes like yours are the exception, and not the rule.
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Er…JB mod spirits…can’t you get rid of the first? I was confused.
You’re blondes too, you should understand this!
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True. I think most of the time people blog as an outlet to vent about what frustrates and pisses them off. Happy Happy blogs are harder to find haha. But maybe women could learn from happy husbands what makes them so happy. Not that I expect there to be a ton of truly happy husbands, though I’m sure there are still some pockets of them. Mr. Z is one. He tells me frequently how happy he is he married me. He’s not blogging about it, but he has other interests.
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bwahahahahahahahaha @ promise keepers
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Thanks! 🙂
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Well… then don’t get married. It’s slim pickings here after feminism, yes, but i LOVE my husband. We’ve been married 11 years. We still go out on dates. We still do nice things for each other. I don’t screw him for ‘security’ because I make plenty of money. I don’t need that. I work from home, though, so he comes home to a clean house and cooked dinner and his coffee ready. I’m sorry if you think I’m imaginary or from Stepford Connecticut but some women really deeply love their husbands. My mom loves my dad and they’ve been married 40 years. My grandmother loves my grandfather and they’ve been married for 61 years. Both my dad and my grandfather are happily married. My husband is happily married. My brother is happily married to another traditional woman who takes care of him, respects him as the leader, and doesn’t take him for granted.
I was freaking raised right. My home wasn’t broken. My mom’s home wasn’t broken. Coming from a home with two parents who stayed married and frequently showed affection in front of the kids has a HUGE impact on how a woman turns out and how she is in her own marriage.
I don’t know what gutter you’re trolling for women in, but try a church. I’m not Christian, but I share many of those same values and there are a lot of women in church who are more traditional. Don’t date liberal women. It’s that simple.
I also don’t consider sex a “duty” or a means to an end. It’s a way of intimately connecting with the man I love more than anything. I wouldn’t even want to be here without him.
That said, marriage is a HUGE risk for men now… if you do it, I suggest a pre-nup, no matter how much or how little you make.
re: exception not the rule… well there’s me, Liz, JudgyBitch, Sunshine Mary, LadySadie (motivational hierarchy). And that’s only a few of the women who blog. Out in the real world I’m sure there are many more. But they are overshadowed by the screechy cows and the stupid sluts who don’t know how to love anybody because they didn’t get enough hugs from daddy or whatever.
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“My brother is happily married to another traditional woman who takes care of him, respects him as the leader, and doesn’t take him for granted.
I was freaking raised right. My home wasn’t broken.”
This. This is the kind of woman I’d need to even consider getting married. There’s really no other type that would even be in the running.
“That said, marriage is a HUGE risk for men now… if you do it, I suggest a pre-nup, no matter how much or how little you make.”
This is also part of the harsh reality of today’s scene, which continually makes me rather hesitant.
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And it’s understandable. This world sucks for the good girls as much as it does for the good men. Do you know the hurdles good women have to jump through now to gain a man’s trust after he’s been burned so many times? It’s not that the men are bad, it’s that they’re reasonably gun shy. It’s not like you guys don’t have valid concerns.
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Mr. Thrope says what sealed the deal for him on marrying me was when he met my family and saw what a good family I came from. And by good family I don’t mean money… I mean values.
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You left your family so that your wife could “develop some independence, reduce her emotional and physical reliance” on you? What about your children? How are they doing now?
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I think people vent their frustrations, make observations, ect….but just as ‘crime didn’t happen today’ isn’t likely to make the news, ‘my life is great, my wife rocks’ isn’t likely to make the blogs. And if it did, a good portion of people (especially PUA types) would label it the douche of the year site.
People who have a lot to boast about rarely boast. A man tells the world he’s a happily married man by body language, not superfluous public praise (I mean, occasionally…my husband has given me some props at speaking engagements, ‘big thanks to my wife who put up with this and that, yadda yadda’).
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Thinking further, I do brag about him all the time. Which is sort of smarmy I guess. I can’t help it he’s just so f*cking awesome!!
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Also Z, may I say that this is, bar none, one of the best responses on this topic that I have ever seen in my life.
I wish I could bronze it and hang it over every church in America.
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I don’t agree that people who have something to boast about don’t boast. It really depends on the person. Also, some people consider things boasting that isn’t boasting necessarily. I’m sure some might consider me “boastful” but really it’s more a reflexive “ummm no, this is not the reality of every relationship… some women are GOOD. Some marriages are GOOD.” When it’s germaine to the discussion and a counterpoint to something said over and over and going unchallenged, it’s not necessarily bragging. It’s more sharing personal experience so that an untrue generalization doesn’t go unchallenged.
I do agree that it LOOKS like boasting/bragging… just not sure how to have an ‘example’ that disproves ‘ALL women… ALL marriages… blah blah blah” without actually sharing something personal that someone might interpret as boasting. Though it’s pretty sad, IMO, that general happiness and a healthy relationship should be considered something to brag about instead of a normal thing within the reach of most people.
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LOL
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that whole ‘laying down thier weapons at some point’ thing? We(american males) tried that. We got out asses beat, and we’re -still- getting our asses beat, with no end in sight. So, no thank you, I’ll keep my weapons handy. Nothing personal
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Not that you thought it was, but the infidelity is NOT always the guy. I never cheated. Not once. My ex cheated. And SHE then filed for the divorce. And my only saving grace was that she was so anxious to move two states away to be with her man whore (at the time, the husband of one of my college friends), that the courts essentially said “you can have custody, or you can move out of state, but not both”, so I got primary physical custody of my son. And ONLY $250/month in child support. To her. Yes, really.
And because of her selfishness, my 7 year old son has spent nearly 6 hours in a car virtually every weekend for the last three years, and will continue to until he decides he’s had enough and wants to stop the every weekend visits… At which time she’s expecting to take me back to court and take custody. I know this because she’s already started trying to convince him how much more fun it would be to live with his half sisters and step brother-and-sister, and has asked me how old I thought he needed to be before he could have some say in where he lived.
Other than paying child support to a non-primarily-custodial mother, I got a really good deal in this divorce. Not counting the $200k she left me in debt and the expenses that continue to this day born out of her failures and bad decisions during the marriage (but that’s another story).
All of which is venting, I know. But sometimes, you just need to.
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BITD it was women love men with their bodies, while men love women with their minds. All told, it depends on the man, and the woman.
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