Trigger warning: images of Shona Sibary
Hey, have you guys heard about this little blue pill men can take to produce instant raging boner?
Apparently, the ladies version will be hitting the shelves soon, and boy, has that ever stimulated some interesting conversation! Kelly Rose Bradford and my favorite little cross-eyed child beater, Shona Sibary had separate takes on the issue over at the Daily Mail, and let me tell you, they both suck.
Shona, she of the “I would rather mop the floor than fuck my husband” school of matrimony, says the pill will never work because women are so much more emotionally complicated than men.
Sibary said women are more complicated sexually than men, and that the pill would not stimulate females emotionally.
She said: ‘If you’re a man and you want to have sex for the sake of having it, fine, pop a pill and have sex in the mechanical way.
‘But women are different. I’m the type of woman this drug is targeting, and we want to feel desirable and desired: it’s not a chemical thing, it’s an emotional thing.’
Yikes! Perhaps a reality check is in order on the desirability front. Honey, you’re ugly. You simply cannot afford to be overweight and have a shitty haircut, too. Now, now, don’t get mad at me, gentle readers. The fact that Shona is ugly is not news to her.
Let’s hope Mr. Sibary is blessed with very poor eyesight. What I really want to talk about is Shona’s argument that for men, sex is mechanical, while for women, it’s emotional.
Vātsyāyana strongly disagrees.
Probably the move famous book on sex ever written. Kama Sutra means “Aphorisms of Love”. You will note the absence of the word “jackhammer” in that translation.
John Donne thinks Shona is full of shit, too. The greatest love poet in the English language.
Love’s mysteries in souls do grow,
But yet the body is his book.
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173355
George Herbert, too.
You must sit down, says Love, and taste my meat:
So I did sit and eat.
http://www.poetryoutloud.org/poem/173632
Basically the entire worlds of art and literature are against Shona’s assertion that men are rutting pigs who will stick their dicks in anything that moves, incapable of feeling love or profound emotional connection.
Rodin says Fuck You, Shona. The most beautiful sculpture ever created, in my opinion.
Leaving aside her lack of physical assets, compounded terribly by being overweight, dreadful hair and absolutely no sense of fashion whatsoever, is it possible that the lack of desire Shona complains about is the result of her being a fucking bitch? I mean really, after a busy day of slapping her toddler so hard she leaves welts behind, humiliating her teenage daughter by inviting people to call her a slut and looking upon her husband with disgust and the mop pail with lust, what exactly is there to desire about this woman?
What kind of emotional connection is possible with a woman who admits she terrorizes her children regularly with physical violence?
I was talking to a friend the other day, and she admitted — in a guilty whisper — that she had, very occasionally, smacked her two sons. She refrained from doing so more often because she couldn’t bear the thought of them ‘flinching’ when she went near them.
I refrained from telling her that my children not only flinch — they duck, dive and even, on occasion, lock themselves in another room to avoid being on the receiving end of my hand.
Charming. God, I hate this woman. The only pill she should consider taking is cyanide.
So let’s move on to Bradford. Does she make a better argument for why women should take the lady viagara?
Speaking to Dr Dawn Harper and married presenters Eamonn Holmes and Ruth Langsford, Bradford said the pill could help women suffering from a low sex drive to stop their husbands straying.
Now, we’ve discussed before how a lack of sex does indeed push husbands to stray, but unspoken in Bradford’s argument is the exact same assumption as Sibary.
http://judgybitch.com/2013/04/19/would-you-take-marital-advice-from-a-hooker-hell-yeah/
That men just want to fuck. No emotional commitment or engagement is necessary. Pop the pill, roll over, and have at ‘er.
So romantic.
What both these women are doing is assuming a moral superiority over men when it comes to the experience of emotion. The ladies are not just assuming their own feelings trump any feelings men might have, but point blank denying that men have any feelings at all! It’s astonishing that women making those kinds of claim illicit no reaction whatsoever, even from the man sitting in the room with them!
Really?!?!
Sex is just mechanics for men. Men don’t feel love. Love isn’t an important determinant of how satisfying sex is for men. Men don’t care WHY their wives are having sex with them, they just want sex.
Hmmm. Such a mystery why these particular women don’t find sex all that satisfying, huh?
Check out this column from Maggie McNeill at the Honest Courtesan (a woman who knows a thing or two about male desire). The idea that “duty sex” is unappealing to men is taken for granted. The exact opposite of what the ladies at the Daily Mail argue.
http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/dry-run/
Loss of libido in women, excepting rare medical conditions, in my opinion, is a direct result of not seeing men as emotionally complex beings. If you’re married, at some point, your husband probably stood in front of you and promised to love you forever. Rejecting him physically is a very wounding thing to do. It hurts. Sex is one of the most important, intimate ways married couples show that they love one another. Refusing to have sex with your husband is telling him, in a very painful way, that you don’t love him. That you don’t care for him or about him.
I guess the only way to justify that is to think of men as emotionless. It doesn’t hurt men to be rejected because they don’t feel anything to begin with.
That’s the ugly little reality behind female viagara. Will it actually boost women’s libido? Who knows. What difference will it make, though, if women are going to continue to see men as less than completely human? That’s the real problem.
i carry your heart with me
by E. E. Cummings
i carry your heart with me(i carry it in
my heart)i am never without it(anywhere
i go you go, my dear; and whatever is done
by only me is your doing, my darling)
i fear
no fate(for you are my fate, my sweet)i want
no world(for beautiful you are my world, my true)
and it’s you are whatever a moon has always meant
and whatever a sun will always sing is you
here is the deepest secret nobody knows
(here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud
and the sky of the sky of a tree called life; which grows
higher than the soul can hope or mind can hide)
and this is the wonder that’s keeping the stars apart
i carry your heart(i carry it in my heart)
How did we get here? How do we go back? I’d like a pill for that.
Lots of love,
JB
judgybitch 
Women regard men as less than completely human because women have always viewed men as utilities. Feminism did not do this – it’s part of the dark side of female nature. Feminism removed social obligation from women to repress her dark side, and created a series of financial subsidies which incentivize her to act on it.
You’re not going to remove the dark side of women, any more then you’re going to remove the potential to burn from fire.
LikeLike
Most men don’t need Viagra, they just need a hot woman:
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/its-not-erectile-dysfunction-its-erectile-discrimination/
LikeLike
Agree 100%. In fact, we have to be thankful to feminism for showing clear the female dark side.
Viagra is not about desire. It is about erection. The “female viagra” is the lub.
To make a woman horny all you need is a couple of whisky-cokes. No big deal.
99% of romantic literature, music, songs, art, etc has been made by men.
I deeply believe -following Dr. Vilar- that women are unable for love. Women do not feel love. At all. They cannot. Women can enter in a paralel state, they do. They need all that romantic songs, etc, to help them virtually enter in that state they cannot reach. That is why women love all that stuff so much. But when they enter in the “paralel state” could be so strong. But goes easily. The love of men is a persistent fire, which increases. The “love” of women is just a firework. And then… custom or convinience. It is a season fashion.
LikeLike
Jumpin’ Jebus on a unicorn! That Sibary bitch is a piece of work. In the linked article she says “How nice is it for my husband to know that the only reason I’m leaping into bed with him is because I’ve popped a pill?'” As JB notes, he won’t care. What he will care more about is publicly proclaiming that a pail of dirty water and a smelly mop are more enticing to you than he is.
But then I question her husband’s judgment for marrying her in the first place. He actually responded to her “I’d rather mop the floor” article here. He indicates that he was mainly attracted to her because she was willing to shag just about anywhere. Unfortunately, he ignored the fact that she’d admitted to having 14 previous partners (and given the rule of thumb that women will lie about such things, we should really increase that time 3, so it’s probably more like 42: this is the UK after all, and no accounting for taste).
He’d be better off with a loaded revolver.
But, this female “viagra” is actually a terrible idea. The combination of rigged divorce and family courts and female hypergamy has already shredded our society. Add in a pill to actually increase women’s sex drives and it will shatter society. Ragingly horny older women may want to get nasty more often, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to get busy with their beta husbands.
It’s a bit early in the day to start drinking, but…
LikeLike
Shona Sibary
Rhymes with Montepulciano D’Abruzzo some days….
LikeLike
The pill will never work on women for two reasons:
1) She would need to be in the mood to take the pill in the first place.
2) It will make her more likely to go out and fuck an alpha. If she was married to an alpha, she wouldn’t need the pill.
Low libido in women is a direct result of the pussification of the husband.
LikeLike
Yes, this. Indeed.
LikeLike
You honestly believe women are incapable of love? That’s truly sad.
I’ve heard feminists say that sort of thing about men. Don’t be like them.
LikeLike
My husband has always had a very strong sex drive and I’ve done my best to match it- but I have to admit that I’m not always up to the challenge. I’m not sure how my husband would feel if I took the female viagra, but if it made him happy I’d do it. I know he loves me and his desire is a reflection of his affection in the best possible way. How stupid would I be to shun that?
LikeLike
I replied to JB’s post before I saw yours so I’m being a bit redundant here- but I had no idea that men might view the female viagra in a negative way. But I guess I was viewing its use in a normal relationship without thinking about the larger societal implications.
LikeLike
I’d say you’re ALMOST correct, Reggie. Most of us don’t really need Viagra, that’s for sure. Although a “hot” woman is an asset, what we really need most is a woman whom we know loves and cares about us (i.e, the real “hot”). Without that final qualifier, sex, at least for this man, is just flat-out not even on the list of Top Ten Things I’m Interested In.
To illustrate: Shona Sibary could have the body and looks of Kate Moss and could strip buck nekkid and climb all over me. But as long as she retained the “real” Shona’s personality and attitude, I couldn’t “get it up” if you were to use a winch to assist. In fact, if I were Mr. Sibary, I would probably have taken a pair of garden shears to my nether regions a long time ago.
LikeLike
But then I question her husband’s judgment for marrying her in the first place.
Yeah, I’d seriously love to meet this guy. A more pathetic specimen of human male could not possibly exist anywhere else on the planet, much as a part of my conscience tells me that I should pity him.
LikeLike
Hey you can’t destroy the female mystique, what would they have left!?
LikeLike
I’m not sure how my husband would feel if I took the female viagra, but if it made him happy I’d do it.
Speaking merely for myself, I would hate to think that my wife was taking this ONLY to make ME happy and not herself too. I’ve never been able to enjoy sex when I think that my wife is doing it only out of any obligation to satisfy me. But maybe I’m just weird that way…
LikeLike
Yeah, you’re doing selfish male pig all wrong.
LikeLike
No- you’re probably right. I doubt my husband would like the idea that I had to take a pill to want to sleep with him. It wouldn’t be how I viewed the situation because I look at the pill (for either sex) in a pretty mechanical fashion as needed for physical dysfunction. But clearly it’s a mistake not to consider the emotional aspects too.
I’m looking at this somewhat academically because I don’t foresee the need for a pill for either my husband or myself. Mostly I’m interested in the conversation because it seems like it could generate a firestorm of debate.
Wait until we have a male birth-control pill to talk about…
LikeLike
My husband would absolutely love this. We’ve had sex more than Athol Kay and his wife. I have never been able to keep up…he could have sex three times a day, every day, and not get tired of it. And he’s 42.
Single friends started asking him if they could borrow his “vitamin V” (apparently this is the vernacular for viagra) about seven years ago, assuming he was on it. Nope. I’d love something similar (and I do find him uber-hot and desirable, we just aren’t on the same libido plane).
LikeLike
I concur. Mine would have to take it without my knowledge and seem like an enthusiastic participant.
It would be like faking orgasms. If men don’t care that women have orgasms, why do they feel the need to fake them? I don’t care if she fakes so long as I don’t know about it.
LikeLike
This is what I was thinking of when I made my initial comment. My husband’s like yours. I call him the Energizer Bunny… No Viagra in this house either.
LikeLike
“woman whom we know loves and cares about us (i.e, the real “hot”)..”
Agreed. That’s what I meant. Enthusiastic consent is part of that hotness.
LikeLike
I love your blog JB.
But I personally resent your hate-on for ugly people! I was never that good looking and age has not done me any favours. Time has been even more unkind to my beautiful wife: things start to widen and sag, hair grows where it shouldn’t, and your reproductive equipment starts to fail with your other facilities. I think these pills (for males and females alike) are aimed at us old uglies more than for you younger ones.
My scholarly opinion is that for true love, things have to be good in the sack and out; if they aren’t then no pill will fix it.
LikeLike
Thank you, Sir Frederick. Time is unkind to ALL of us.
LikeLike
If Shona was a loving mother and a devoted wife, I would probably consider her looks adorably quirky.
Ugly is as ugly does. She’s ugly mostly because of who she is. Not because of what she looks like.
LikeLike
Wait until we have a male birth-control pill to talk about…
As I’ve said elsewhere, that will NEVER see the light of day, at least not anywhere in the western world. There’s just NO WAY that men will ever be allowed access to any countermeasures against deh womyn’z reproductive power.
LikeLike
If men don’t care that women have orgasms, why do they feel the need to fake them?
Good question. Maybe the inhabitants of Jezebel can answer that?
LikeLike
Ugly is as ugly does. She’s ugly mostly because of who she is. Not because of what she looks like.
One cannot hammer this home often or hard enough (and yes, this is a sex-neutral truism).
LikeLike
I fear you are right- but hope you’re wrong.
LikeLike
Hey…far out, man! Sloth from the Goonies has a sister!
LikeLike
They’re currently permitted to have vasectomies.
That’s a WHOLE lotta conspiracy going on….pharmaceuticals working against their own profit interests, putting money into pointless research, physicians fudging, ect.
LikeLike
Lol!
Oh crap. Now I can’t unsee it….
LikeLike
But doesn’t it help that she loves you and finds you very sexy, just can’t physically have as much libido as you? That way she will also make herself happy. I think that’s what Radical Suburbanite meant (judging by later comments).
LikeLike
What about a young man who wants kids but doesn’t want to get a woman pregnant? Yeah, there are condoms, but clearly that has been an imperfect solution.
I don’t know about the whole conspiracy theory thing, but I can imagine the outrage if women no longer had full control over the issue of reproduction.
LikeLike
*Doesn’t want to get a woman pregnant — yet.
LikeLike
I agree it isn’t optimal, but a vasectomy is the obvious counter to a statement that “There’s just NO WAY that men will ever be allowed access to any countermeasures against deh womyn’z reproductive power.”
The pill was legalized far before it should have been, and dangerous. I still think it’s prescribed too often and arbitrarily, as though it is candy. Same with depo shots, ect. Hormones, even in tiny amounts, can have a significant impact on an individual. More likely than womyn’z conspiracy it’s simply difficult to come up with a relatively risk and side effect free measure to prevent men from having healthy useful swimmers. I’d be very worried about my husband’s health taking something like that, even after FDA approval with their track record.
LikeLike
My husband got a vasectomy specifically so I wouldn’t have to suffer the hormonal effects of the pill- so yeah, I’m on the same page as you are there.
I don’t think there’s any big conspiracy. But it would be pretty earth shattering if there was a (safe) male pill. Talk about a game changer…
LikeLike
OT, but speaking of vasectomies, I thought I’d post this in case anyone hasn’t seen it. I give you the craigslist vasectomy guy. This one is an internet classic…
LikeLike
And exactly where does this self-centered, sorry excuse for a human get off telling me what is important to me and my sex life?
How’s this for you, Shona, you despicable scrunt:
When my wife grudgingly rolls over, with the “hurry up and get it over with” look on her face, as she does all too often, it is like she is driving a knife into my heart. I’ve taken to more or less not bothering once she sends me that message, because – now stay with me here – I derive absolutely zero pleasure from fucking her when she isn’t into it (which seems like more or less always). Hell, I’ve taken to just not asking for sex at all at this point, since all I’m doing is asking for that rejection. The reason for this is because she is telling me that she doesn’t care about me; that I’m just a chore for her to take care of, sort of like, I don’t know, mopping the floor and that she’d just as soon I went away and didn’t bother her. Can you imagine what it must feel like when your partner of 15 years tells you that? You probably can’t, Shona, but I know your husband can, and I guarantee that you’re killing him, and your marriage, every time you do it.
For me, sex is 95% about the emotional connection, and about 5% getting my rocks off. I found myself absolutely enthralled the other day with a rather non-attractive barista, simply because, I realized later, she was actually acting like she was interested in me – like she cared and was genuinely attracted to me and wanted to fuck my brains out. I know it was all an act to elicit better tips, but this was the first obvious warning to me that my wife and I are in a slump and we’ve got some serious issues to work out.
I can’t change the way my wife feels. I’ve tried. She can’t, either, and she says that she’s tried. It isn’t a lack of attraction to me that she’s dealing with – it is a lack of wanting sex at all, with anyone. I long for the emotional connection so much that it kills me, and the handful of times per year that my wife and I do actually connect leaves me hurting so badly that we can’t do that more often, that I almost wish it hadn’t happened.
So fuck you, Shona. You don’t speak for me, and for the billions of other men out there dealing with the fact that they’ve committed to women who have a complete lack of sex drive. We need that emotional connection – it’s what tells us we’re men; that our woman is satisfied with us; that we are loved; that all the heartache and turmoil we go through to earn a living for our family is worth it and appreciated. It is literally the only thing in my life right now making me unhappy, and you have no idea what you are talking about.
LikeLike
Liz, I haven’t checked the laws here recently (in Amerika), but in some parts of the world (France comes to mind as an example), a man cannot legally get a vasectomy of his own volition without permission from either his wife/partner (nor, it turns out, is he allowed to have his child tested for paternity without facing hideous legal punishment). I have two acquaintances (both single at the time) who were refused vasectomies by their urologists – not for any legal reason, but simply because the urologists “felt uncomfortable doing the procedure on a young, single man.” One gave up trying after a fruitless search for another doctor who would do what he wanted, the other FINALLY found a urologist who would do it, but it took months and a lot of aggravation.
Now if single women faced those types of obstacles in getting their tubes tied/hysterectomies or abortions, we’d never hear the end of it.
As far as the male pill goes, I personally wouldn’t even think of trying it. Big Pharma is already poisoning us with far too many other drugs as it is.
LikeLike
On Topic at Heartiste today (I totally called that one):
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/05/29/the-pill-and-divorce-the-real-connection/
“The problem of post-Pill wives losing their desire for their husbands is so bad that drug companies are trying to create a compensating pill — call it the Thrill — that will reinvigorate flagging female libidos. The intention is to cure “hypoactive sexual-desire disorder,” aka HSDD, by tapping into the primal recesses of the female brain and manipulating lustful brain lobes into activity.
The Thrill may work, but I bet not in the way the researchers intend. This is because the “problem” is not so much low female libido, but low female libido for their betaboy husbands. The added clause is crucial. A pill that fuels female clit boners will reawaken women… straight into the arms of interloper alpha males. Imagine a world of supercharged horny housewives boffing everyone in sight. Shit just got a lot more interesting.”
LikeLike
Supercharged horny housewives….
See?
Totally charming!
😛
LikeLike
Hey, didn’t I say this above? Seriously, gotta start charging Roissy for this stuff…
LikeLike
If the problem was simply a lack of attraction for her husband, a woman wouldn’t need a pill to go off boffing other men. The problem is that some women just don’t have a sex drive for whatever reason.
A pill for that won’t necessary lead to women going about sleeping around any more or less than viagra did for men.
LikeLike
can’t change the way my wife feels. I’ve tried. She can’t, either, and she says that she’s tried. It isn’t a lack of attraction to me that she’s dealing with – it is a lack of wanting sex at all, with anyone. I long for the emotional connection so much that it kills me, and the handful of times per year that my wife and I do actually connect leaves me hurting so badly that we can’t do that more often, that I almost wish it hadn’t happened.
Goober, I’m in the same situation you’re in, brother. I wish I could offer you an easy answer to your problem, but I can’t. Because there isn’t one.
In my case, I’m often tempted to chalk the problem up to “hormones” on my wife’s part (post-menopausal issues), but it’s more complicated than that. She has some serious emotional health issues/baggage that she’s been struggling to overcome for years, issues that she’s only now agreeing to seek professional help for, after many years of my fruitlessly urging her to do so. In other words, she’s reached her pain threshold, awakening only now to the fact that only SHE can resolve her internal issues and that it’s up to HER to realize to take the first steps in getting the help she needs.
Is this the situation with you and your wife? If it is, I would offer you one piece of advice: DO NOT internalize HER issues and blame yourself for her pain, pain which you did not cause and which you have no power to take away. Support her, be there for her, and encourage her, be a good husband, but do not become co-dependent.
I spent years bashing my head against the proverbial brick wall trying to figure out what I did wrong (or what I wasn’t doing right) until I woke up to the realization that I am NOT responsible for exorcising someone else’s personal demons (and yes, this is a BIG part of swallowing the Red Pill). Be supportive and understanding, but do NOT assume their burden!
If I were to offer any further (admittedly unsolicited) advice (and again, this assumes that your situation with your wife mirrors mine), it is to 1) NEVER give up hope and 2) take care of YOU. Consider going to counseling, either with her or alone. A decade ago, when my marriage first ran into trouble, my wife refused to go to counseling with me, so I went by myself. It made ALL the difference in the world and literally saved my marriage. (Be careful in selecting a counselor, though. Check their CV – anyone with a degree or certificate in “Gender Studies,” even as an undergrad, should be scratched off the list immediately). Now, this time, with my wife FINALLY realizing she needs help, maybe the sex/intimacy issues can eventually be resolved as well. It hasn’t been easy being in a “celibate marriage” for the last two years, but with light at the end of the tunnel, it’s a little easier to bear.
Sorry to offer unsolicited advice, but your pain really hit close to home. I really do hope that you and your wife can find healing and a renewal of affection in your marriage, just as I’m praying that this will happen with mine.
LikeLike
Mrs. Bitch,
I very much like this one.
You see the complexity of the male’s emotional landscape just as well as the males are compelled to see the complexities of the female’s…
In our decaying postmodern era, when we worship all that is shallow and ironic and mock anything possessing sincerity, is genine love even possible?
And when the cult of the self has been raised to the highest value, who would deign even to something like duty sex?
Those who make the mistake of seeing sex is either a burden or a duty, confuse the meaning of love and the sacrifice that many make for it. Whereas love is not merely duty, but rather love is duty bound with desire.
One more thing…
I’m always astounded by the cute children that such awful looking people seem to have. I’m puzzled by how such promising and adorable kids deteriorate into such horribly looking grownups. I think Orwell had it right that everyone has the face they deserve when they reach a certain age.
LikeLike
I feel like I’m reading the newest version of the Penthouse Forum. Men no longer fantasize about earth shattering sex– but in catching dishonest women in a lie.
LikeLike
No, we still fantasize about Earth-shattering sex…too.
LikeLike
That you did. I guess I plagiarized you as well.
LikeLike
Lol! Glad to hear it.
LikeLike
I have a friend in Florida who experienced the same thing with his vasectomy…needed his wife’s approval. I agree that is beyond BS.
I do know a couple of women who have been refused tubal ligations, but that was due to their youth (in their twenties). Had nothing to do with spousal approval.
LikeLike
If your situation is like mine (Heartiste Below), find your inner alpha and quit asking for sex. When you want it, throw her on the bed and make it happen. If she adamantly refuses, tell her she’s not the only buffet in town and go out for a few drinks. Don’t be all butt hurt, but just go away and be distant for a while.
Men are not ready for the downside of a partner going off the pill. We have a preconceived notion of what romance is but it all goes to pot after marriage. Dread is your ally.
You don’t have to fool around, but you should openly flirt with waitresses and any pretty girl that you come across and do it in front of her (even when the sex is good). Your wife will hate you for settling for her but she’ll love you for choosing her. You are a dapper and charming individual, remember?
True story. I went to a Viet-Thai restaurant with my daughter and talked with the waitress who was pleasant. The next week, I took my wife to the same restaurant and had the same waitress. She recognized me and was quite giggly when I was talking to her. When she walked away, my wife said “Somebody needs to calm herself down!” To which I replied “Why do you have to be such a cock blocker?”
You need to be aloof and let your darling, beautiful wife know that you chose her because she is beautiful, charming and intelligent and didn’t settle for the only girl who would lay down with you. You don’t tell her this, but show her this through your actions. You are a caring and gentle man who could care less if you have company.
If this is not you, disregard and take the advice above.
LikeLike
You’ll have a much happier marriage if you stop trying to please your wife and let her please you. It is the natural order of things!
LikeLike
Makes sense. I did it the opposite way from Heartiste’s writeup. I went on the pill the month before the wedding so we could “have lots of fun” on the honeymoon. I basically hated him as soon as the pill got into my system. About three months into it, he threw them away and said they made me crazy and we weren’t having sex anyway so what was the point. In very short time, once the hormones left my body I felt normal and he was attractive again. Been married a long time since and smooth, synthetic-hormone-less sailing.
LikeLike
It’s all good. As long as I can get that bastard Roissy to pay up…
LikeLike
I just stuff my wallet with lots and lots of money. That seems to make women horny.
LikeLike
Goober, I’m in the same situation you’re in, brother. I wish I could offer you an easy answer to your problem, but I can’t. Because there isn’t one.
Nothing worth doing is ever easy. If it is easy, chances are pretty good you’ll find that it isn’t worth doing. That goes for women, too.
In my case… …is this the situation with you and your wife?
Not really. At least if it is, I’m too dense to see it. My wife is healthy and happy in all other things, and we have a lot of fun together. We’re off playing all the time, and really the only sticking point in the whole thing is that she has absolutely zero sex drive. It is a chore to her. Something she’d rather not do. She even realizes the risk she’s running by indulging her lack of ambition and denying me mine, as she’s told me on several occasions that she’s afraid that I’ll stray (and that she wouldn’t blame me if I did, although not in those words). So there really isn’t any pain to internalize – as I’ve said before, I’m really happy right now with every single aspect of my life, except this one thing.
The trick is that you can’t force someone to want something they don’t want, and I’m frankly not interested in being the only party involved in the effort.
I spent years bashing my head against the proverbial brick wall trying to figure out what I did wrong (or what I wasn’t doing right) until I woke up to the realization that Iam NOT responsible for exorcising someone else’s personal demons (and yes, this is a BIG part of swallowing the Red Pill). Be supportive and understanding, but do NOT assume their burden!
I’m sorry you spent those years in that cycle. That’s never fun. Unless I’m remarkably dense, however, I’m not there. Although I can’t discount the possibility that I am, indeed, remarkably dense… I’m really not blaming myself for my wife’s issues, as I’ve done nothing to deserve them. I’ve provided for her a life that she admits she could have never had on her own, and have been a good, faithful, and happy husband to her for 15 years now.
Sorry to offer unsolicited advice, but your pain really hit close to home. I really do hope that you and your wife can find healing and a renewal of affection in your marriage, just as I’m praying that this will happen with mine.
Thanks for the kind thoughts. I hope you come out the other end whole. You deserve it, no matter how many years you spent thinking you didn’t.
LikeLike
Regie Said:
If your situation is like mine (Heartiste Below), find your inner alpha and quit asking for sex. When you want it, throw her on the bed and make it happen. If she adamantly refuses, tell her she’s not the only buffet in town and go out for a few drinks. Don’t be all butt hurt, but just go away and be distant for a while.
That isn’t alpha, to me – that’s asshole. I didn’t marry my wife so she could become my chattel property. I think you may have misunderstood my problem – my wife isn’t denying me sex – she’ll do it with me any time I ask. It’s just that she isn’t into it at all. I’m not into the mechanics of the act – I want my wife to be a willing participant. Forcing sex on her would most likely not solve this issue. The fact that our sex lives have diminished isn’t because she’s saying “no,” it’s because she’s saying “OMG, FINE, just get it over with!” and my reaction to that has been to just stop trying.
The rare occasion that she gets into it, we have a great time. But those are very few and far between.
You don’t have to fool around, but you should openly flirt with waitresses and any pretty girl that you come across and do it in front of her (even when the sex is good). Your wife will hate you for settling for her but she’ll love you for choosing her. You are a dapper and charming individual, remember?
I appreciate the sentiment, but again, I’m not out to hurt my wife or manipulate her into doing what I want. It seems to me to be the opposite of love. If that makes me beta then I’ll wear that mantle proudly.
You need to be aloof and let your darling, beautiful wife know that you chose her because she is beautiful, charming and intelligent and didn’t settle for the only girl who would lay down with you. You don’t tell her this, but show her this through your actions. You are a caring and gentle man who could care less if you have company.
This, I agree with. This is the definition of a gentleman, and since my wife is one of the rare ladies left in the western world, I choose to act like a gentleman when I’m around her. I let her know on a daily basis that she is important to me because she is, but I also let her know when I’m pissed off at her, too.
You’ll have a much happier marriage if you stop trying to please your wife and let her please you. It is the natural order of things!
The best marriage of all is one where you both spend your time trying to please each other. That’s my goal. Whether I ever achieve it or not is up for debate, but it is good to have aspirations.
LikeLike
See my comment about being enthralled with an unattractive barista the other day because of the way she was acting.
Physical ugliness is mitigated to a huge extent by other qualities in the person, and likewise are amplified in the same way.
Shona irredeemably ugly in every imaginable way. My heart breaks for her husband and her kids.
LikeLike
That isn’t alpha, to me – that’s asshole. I didn’t marry my wife so she could become my chattel property.
Actually, alpha sometimes means being a little asshole. Just because you take a more dominant approach to sex doesn’t make her your “property,” and if done right, could possibly ignite her sex drive.
I think you may have misunderstood my problem – my wife isn’t denying me sex – she’ll do it with me any time I ask. It’s just that she isn’t into it at all. I’m not into the mechanics of the act – I want my wife to be a willing participant. Forcing sex on her would most likely not solve this issue. The fact that our sex lives have diminished isn’t because she’s saying “no,” it’s because she’s saying “OMG, FINE, just get it over with!” and my reaction to that has been to just stop trying.
Then, in effect, yes, she is denying you a satisfying sex life. And while other parts of your marriage might be okay, this is still an important part of a healthy marriage.
I’m not out to hurt my wife or manipulate her into doing what I want. It seems to me to be the opposite of love. If that makes me beta then I’ll wear that mantle proudly.
It’s not about manipulating her, it’s about fixing a problem in your marriage. If she is willing to have sex, but is not “into” it, and the other aspects of your relationship are good, there is a reason she for her low libido. It could be psychological, hormonal, or something else. Acting beta doesn’t help. Has she discussed this with her OB/GYN? Or an endocrinologist? Does she want to rekindle her sex drive so that she wants more enthusiastic sex with you?
The issue is, acting too much like a gentleman can be a problem. Regie is absolutely right. A lot depends on how you “let her know on a daily basis that she is important” to you. Because too often that can come off as a little too supplicating, which can further kill her attraction.
I know, because I went through the same thing. My wife and I certainly had respect for each other, and even affection masking as true love. But sex went to near zero. She, too, would acquiesce, but wasn’t very enthusiastic (which is, as you prove, one of the most important parts of sex for men), though claimed to want it. Actions speak louder than words. And we ended up with a marriage that was more roommates who slept in the same bed. We had intimacy, but not sex. And then the marriage kind of just died. All our friends and family were gobsmacked when we divorced, nearly all saying that–from the outside–we had the “perfect marriage” (aside from the fact that we never had kids).
The divorce was completely amicable, and we still retain great affection for each other–we shocked the divorce lawyer when we urged her to hurry up with correcting our separation agreement so we could sign because we’d both taken the afternoon off and had lunch reservation at a great restaurant.
But it was only after I discovered the Manosphere and the Red Pill that I realized that if I’d only known, I might have been able to save the marriage by being more aware and proactive, especially about the lack of enthusiastic sex.
I only say this because you seem to have a chance to resolve this that I didn’t have. The manosphere didn’t exist when I could have used the information.
The best marriage of all is one where you both spend your time trying to please each other.
You’re right. But in this case, she’s not actually pleasing you in a major relationship area….
LikeLike
But couldn’t the same be said about men who ‘need’ to take viagra?
LikeLike
In our decaying postmodern era, when we worship all that is shallow and ironic and mock anything possessing sincerity, is genine love even possible?
For many, no. I pity those people, but don’t feel any sympathy for them – they’ve chosen their lot. Shona would be one of them.
But for the rest of us, i think it would be cynical to the extreme to think that we are incapable of love. Get out of the big cities for a bit, and you’ll see real, honest, true people again. It’s just a matter of not looking down your nose at how ignorant and backwards they are, and instead seeing that they have things figured out far better than most shallow, ironic city dwellers.
Ever watched Duck Dynasty? Swamp People? I know that a not unsubstantial portion of the people watching those shows watch them so that they can make fun of the “dumb-as-rocks, flyover state cousin-fuckers” that are on the shows.
I watch them because I love to see hard working men risking themselves and working hard to earn a living for their families, who in turn love and appreciate them very much.
Junior’s wife on “Swamp People”: “I don’t really like being out on the swamp because i can’t swim and I’m scared of the water and the alligators, but my place is with my husband, and he needs my help today and so I’ll be there for him.”
To most “sophistocated” urbanites, this is a mockable, lamentable statement made by an ignorant woman.
To me, it was sweet and kind of made the room dusty (or something).
I could post a thousand more examples, but you get the picture. There’s a lot of us simple country folk left, and all these city dwellers think they are so much smarter than us and have everything figured out, but in the end, we’re not the ones spending money on therapists and depression drugs and crying about our lot in life all the damn time. Think that might tell you something?
LikeLike
Oh thank you so much!
I went from Manchester to Melbourne to Shanghai to Bangkok and took a right turn and landed here in hillbilly central.
And I fucking love it!!
I was raised in an itty bitty little prairie town though (pop. 600 mostly farmers), so this feels like home.
There’s something about country folks. We’re more real because we HAVE to be. There are no government workers to pick up the slack.
Do or die.
Love or be alone.
It’s that simple.
LikeLike
Fuck you. You’re wrong.
Pussified enough for you?
LikeLike
Want to clarify just in case a tone is being read into my response to Reggie – I just disagreed with him. I had no intention to sound like I was blowing off what he was saying, since he was only trying to help, and i did appreciate what he had to say….
LikeLike
Has she discussed this with her OB/GYN? Or an endocrinologist? Does she want to rekindle her sex drive so that she wants more enthusiastic sex with you?
Her OB/GYN told her it was my fault for not lighting her fire enough (to which my wife pretty much shook her head in disgust because she saw the rank feminist BS in that). Endocrinologist – no.
As for her desire to rekindle – she says it is there. Like I said, she had told me that she is really worried that she is going to lose me to some other gal (in no small part because I pointed that out to her once when I was pissed at her).
LikeLike
We’re more real because we HAVE to be. There are no government workers to pick up the slack.
Nor should there be. Nor should any decent person, much less a man who calls himself “alpha” ever rely on them to, anyway.
I had a good post about that the other day. It was essentially about the perils of increased federalism, because the federal government is too “one size fits all” to ever meet the tastes and desires of any sizeable chunk of a country as large as ours.
I live in Northern Idaho. We plow our own roads. I have a snowplow on my truck, and when my neighbor gets stuck in a snowbank, i pull her out. We have little use for the government, for no other reason than because we just like to take care of ourselves.
A person that lives in New York, however, will probably commute on a government railway (or bus), likely lives in housing subsidized by government rules, and more or less sees the government as a partner in everything that they do. When it snows there, the city is shut down until the government trucks get the roads plowed.
How can a one-size fits all federal government please these two wholly diverse sets of people?
When I talk state’s rights, I’m not being a fringe separatist, I’m being a realist… Because Idaho’s government can govern for Idaho, and New York’s government can govern for New York – and everyone is happy…
LikeLike
There is a damn fine art gallery in Boise.
I liked that town.
LikeLike
I saw Chuck Close in Boise!
Chuck Close! He’s amazing.
LikeLike
As mentioned earlier, I agree that these pills acting on physiological responses aren’t going to help increase libido one whit. When a pill comes out that effects libido I’ll start paying attention.
Related question for the MGTOW types: If you could take a pill that set your libido to ZERO, would you do it? When I was trapped in a lousy marriage once, I became a “MGTOW-while-married” kinda guy, and I often thought then how beneficial an anti-libido pill would be.
LikeLike
Her OB/GYN told her it was my fault for not lighting her fire enough (to which my wife pretty much shook her head in disgust because she saw the rank feminist BS in that). Endocrinologist – no.
Doctors have a habit of sometimes doing more harm than good, albeit unintentionally. Our GP told my wife that, while she probably would need hormone therapy to “recaptcha” that old spark in full, she didn’t advise that she have it done, because it has some really nasty potential side effects for post-menopausal women. Now this lady has a proven track record with both of us, so I’m not dissing her abilities – but, well, I guess it wasn’t news either of us really needed to hear when we heard it. BUT, since I’m a “natural medicine” kind of guy, that’s just something else for me to research.
Yeah, that comment by your wife’s OB/GYN just screams “moronic.” Hopefully you’ve found another one for her.
LikeLike
No, don’t worry; our biology hasn’t changed. General rule: men ALWAYS, even if only in the very back braincells of what passes for our minds, think about earth-shattering sex. ALWAYS. You just caught us in a moment when something else came up and distracted us. But its’ gone now.
Now back to fantasies of earth-shattering, time-and-space-rending, alternate energy source-creating sex.
LikeLike
Boise is nice, but I’m 8 hours away by car so I’ve only ever been twice.
LikeLike
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. And the common-law divorce after a 15-year relationship.
My view…if she won’t go to counselling right effing now, stick a fork in it and get out on what amicable terms you can, especially if this has been going on for some time. I held on to hope for far too long (years’ worth) without realising how unrealistic it was and that I was being manipulated emotionally (intended or not, I don’t know, and at this point it’s moot).
Yes. This, exactly. I had to “break” myself to do this with any equanimity, and I’m not sure I’ve got myself sorted yet, even years after the fact. Sticking around without outside help does neither of you any favours.
LikeLike
You know what you call a woman who says she loves you but does not sexually respond to you? A liar.
C’mon, is there a woman in the Western world who would buy it if a man told her, “Honey, I love you and I think you’re sexy, it’s just that sometimes Mr. Happy stays limp”?
LikeLike
Is she on the pill, or any synthetic hormones? Most ob/gyns would say the problem is either in your head or with your partner, no way the hormones interfere, but that was my experience. When I went off them, I was 1000 percent better. Some IUDs have hormones too. I eschew all of them.
You might also try a vibrator during sex. Even if she is standoffish about it at first, talk her into trying it. You grow to like something when you associate it with a five minute long deep internal orgasm.
LikeLike
It’s cool bro. I know I’m an asshole and so does my wife. Not only does she think I’m an asshole, she knows I game her and tells me that shit doesn’t work. It’s funny that you can game your woman and tell her you’re doing it and it still works. And yes, she is my woman and she runs woman game on me all the time.
LikeLike
Some thoughts here:
1) I was going to restrict my contribution to this thread to mentioning the humorous supposed women’s version of Viagra, “Niagara”, 😀 , but thought the subject deserved more.
2) Classic 2-minute humor video on how men experience trying to find love:
http://pogpog.com/v/how-relationships-work/
3) The real problem always comes back to these things:
-women who don’t need men due to ubiquitous job affirmative action/make-work job availability/always having lucrative frivorce as an option, don’t want (most) men
-women who’ve had sex (any kind) with men before marrying, largely can’t emotionally bond longterm with any husband they can actually get.
4) Other amusing but apt video on this subject, “The Girlfriend Trainer”:
http://cinemasaville.com/video/girlfriend-trainer
(ignore the 20 seconds of PC nonsense at the end obviously thrown in so the people who made this video wouldn’t get hunted down and killed by feminists)
5) Yeah, Dave, a lot of men would take that “libido-away” pill, were it available.
6) If a girlfriend closes her legs or even heart to a man, he can (and IMO should) just not call her anymore. If a wife does that, a man is hosed, especially if they have had kids together he’d prefer not largely losing as his. Thus, a man should NEVER marry unless he is SURE he wants kids with that woman, AND is willing to accept the usual “we’re married now, so I don’t have to have sex with you anymore out of fear of you leaving” routine getting pulled on him. Nope, not ever.
LikeLike
Maybe a more productive conversation would concern how to detect which women are going to end up being the ones who taste the icing on their wedding cake and immediately close their legs.
Personally, I think it comes down to caretaking. A woman who cares about what you eat, if your clothes are clean, if your home is reasonably tidy and neat, if you are tired, if you are sore – those are all indicators that she cares about you physically.
Cooking, cleaning, massage, letting you sleep in, making you coffee – to me all those things indicate she is deeply invested in your comfort. Wanting to have sex is a natural extension of that.
A woman who loves you for your biting humor and your kindness to puppies and strangers and your keen discernment of the evolution of Star Trek uniforms, but does not give a shit if you had lunch or not – that woman may be fun to talk to and hang out with and she might make you feel good in the short term, but the lack of concern over your physical wellbeing is troubling.
The whole “make me a sammich” thing is a joke, but underpinning it is a very real quality that men should never overlook. Making you a sandwich is a way of caring about your animal needs.
And you know, it doesn’t even have to be “make”, although seriously, who can’t make a sandwich? A woman who can’t boil water can still go out and buy you a sandwich, or lunch or dinner. What matters is that she thinks about those things, and cares, and takes action.
Just like men who offer their hands when a woman is getting up, or getting out of a car or who offers to carry packages. My husband does those things automatically. He would never walk by me carrying a bag of … anything…. marshmallows. He will always take whatever I am carrying and carry it himself. He puts out his hand when I get up off the couch. It’s his way of showing that he wants to protect me physically.
I would be mad suspicious of women who don’t care that their men are tired or hungry or sore. Those are the basic building blocks. They need to be there.
LikeLike
That’s very well said, as usual, JB.
LikeLike
Isn’t it kind of exhausting thinking of a marriage as a constant gaming test?
LikeLike
If men want to have relationships with modern women, men have to Game them. I even have to use non-sexual Game tactics on my female co-workers to maintain productive relationships with them.
LikeLike
Damn straight. If only it weren’t needed.
LikeLike
No because society has made it a male problem that he has erectile discrimination and a male problem that the wife has low libido. Society has ensured that a man taking Viagra is not an insult to his wife. If it were, I’d surely take it (if I needed to) in private.
You want to try something really fun (and assholish)? After you give your wife a mind blowing orgasm or two … (faking or not), just stop and tell her you’re not into it. You want to see a hamster drop dead from heat exhaustion?
LikeLike
“You grow to like something when you associate it with a five minute long deep internal orgasm.”
Then wouldn’t it be better if it was the real Mr. Periwinkle?
LikeLike
It’s more exhausting trying to maintain a relationship in a betaboy (pleasing) fashion with a woman who hates you more every time you try to please her.
The only way to please a woman is to let her please you. It’s a hard truth but you have to learn it eventually.
LikeLike
Really! Think of all the housework those saps have to do that I don’t. I open jars and kill things. I drive and take care of the carpentry/electrical/plumbing so I ain’t doing laundry. Mind you, I will do the laundry once in a while just to surprise her, but it’s not in the division of labour. I do all the man things and she does all the woman things. I did get her some help though, that’s why we own children.
LikeLike
Most importantly, don’t forget to occasionally tell her to keep the racket down when she’s cleaning and you’re trying to watch TV.
LikeLike
It is the real Mr Periwinkle. 🙂
There’s nothing to compare with BOTH at the same time. Vibration goes on the outside, not in. She’ll be shaking like a crackbaby. The plus to this, if her orgasm is better than yours she might feel a little guilt (if she’s considerate), and learn really phenomenally good fellatio…which is, again, beyond anything her “Mrs Periwinkle” could offer alone.
LikeLike
And never say you’re sorry unless you really are. That Leonard guy from ‘The Big Bang Theory’ really gets me.
Pria – “Leonard, you don’t have to make so much noise when we’re kissing”
Leonard – “Sorry” (man that bugs me)
What Leonard should have said – “Your headhole is making noise again, you might want to see to that!” or “I have better uses for that smarmy little mouth!”
I must be a masochist because I love taming feminists. The smarmier, the better.
Class dismissed. 🙂
LikeLike
Absolutely Goober, I totally agree. Honestly, I am a little surprised at all the NEGATIVE feedback we’re getting from men regarding this topic, everywhere, not just on this site.
I do believe some women are completely in love with their husbands, but something is off physically and they can’t respond. Could be age, medical issues…whatever, some women have the emotional connection, just not the physical.
I’m all for this pill.
LikeLike
Honey, most women are conniving, manipulative liars. We both know it.
LikeLike
I’m with ya, Liz. Toys always make play time lots of fun.
LikeLike
Annnnnnd, this is why I read this blog. Really, I need more. This is some good stuff.
LikeLike
The extent of negativity surprises me too. Not to excuse it, but I think it’s because men have been copping a lot of unfair criticism of their sexuality over the years and are generally expected to take it quietly. Eg. everything from premature ejaculation (“two pump chump” – though we never hear of “frigid Fanny”), retarded ejaculation, insensitivity, the rutting animal, etc, etc.
The female ‘viagra’ can feel, to some men, as yet another form of critique of his desirability or sexual worth. Personally, I think it’s great that this pill is coming out. If the woman really didn’t care, she wouldn’t bother with it, and make it somehow his problem for not getting her aroused. Instead, she realises that something hormonally (or other) is off and is trying to take ownership and do something about it. I applaud that.
LikeLike
OMG, I cannot believe the kyriarchical misogyny you all display…
this is proof that moar feminism is truly needed…
I never feel more empowered than when I pay a woman to penetrate me with a strap-on dildo….
Perhaps we should empower these low libido women by using state funds to get them strap-ons…
Can I has a cheezeburger???
LikeLike
You mean sadist?A masochist is a person that takes pleasure in being subjected to pain or humiliation.eg: a girl who’d wanna be with you.
LikeLike
I am so confused. As far as I was aware, a woman doesn’t need to be aroused to have sex, nor to want it. I *always* want to have sex with my fiancee, because a) I love him, b) it feels amazing and makes us both happy, and c) it’s better than any other form of exercise, and I like to keep in shape.
In my experience, saying ‘yes’ and engaging in foreplay makes sex possible at any time when I’m not ill, driving, or asleep. I can’t imagine I’ll ever need a pill, and to think that any woman does just makes no sense to me. Even if you’re totally uninterested, there’s always lube!
LikeLike
How obnoxious. Of course, “honey”, you don’t care to base that opinion on any kind of substance other than “we both know it”.
And Spaniard, why do you suppose it is that most romantic art has been created by men? Uhh, because most art in general has been created by men, due to men wielding far more power in the creative and intellectual realms for centuries. As more women begin to produce and become recognized for their art, you’ll see more women produce art with romantic themes, as is already happening.
Anyway, I liked JB’s post. I’m tired of people acting as though men are automatons when it comes to sex and higher emotion. It’s absurd that feminists can rail against false ideas regarding women while readily eating up those regarding men.
LikeLike