Shona Sibary is a vindictive, insecure, blathering idiot who accidentally tells a great story about what marriage really is. Count your blessings, you foolish cow. Count your blessings.

4 Jul

As my regular readers know, I am not a huge fan of Shona Sibary.  She is a nasty piece of work who uses her family life and circumstances as click bait for her columns at the Daily Mail, although in her comments to me on this blog, she has encouraged me “not to believe everything I read”, which I rationally take to mean she makes a lot of her shit up.

http://judgybitch.com/2013/02/18/shona-sibary-big-fat-scary-lying-bitch/

http://judgybitch.com/2013/02/08/call-the-waaaaaah-mbulance-shona-sibary-doesnt-like-judgybitch-boo-fucking-hoo/

I blog anonymously and use pseudonyms for my children and family and friends and I think carefully before relating anything that might be painful for my children or husband to read, but I guarantee you I don’t make anything up.  My “true stories” are all true, including the ones I plan to relate today.

shona bride

So here is the quick and dirty story about Shona’s marriage:  she dated her husband for six years and he finally confessed he couldn’t imagine waking up to her every day for the rest of his life and then vomited.  They parted, but then had a little break-up sex party and Shona “accidentally” got pregnant.

Yeah, right.

Accident my ass.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2355141/Why-I-fear-husband-NEVER-truly-loved-Theyve-married-14-years-children-SHONA-SIBARYS-haunted-nagging-doubt–good-reason.html

Keith stepped up to the plate and married Shona and they went on to have three more children and built a life together.  In Shona’s words:

Sometimes I have to pinch myself to believe that I struck gold with a man who put building a family above his own pursuit of personal happiness.

gold

Oh, honey, strike gold you certainly did.  Keith understands what marriage IS.  You, on the other hand, are a spiteful, immature toddler who needs to be taken in hand.  Shona’s main bone of contention is that her marriage to her husband didn’t begin from a place of Disney fairytale romance complete with sparkles and a tiara.

After four children, fourteen years, countless material comforts and endless hours of companionship, Shona still resents the fact that her husband broke up with her all those years ago.

I push Keith constantly. I’m forever testing his commitment, his desire to be here. I’ve even threatened to walk out on occasions and he has resorted to hiding the car keys to stop me. But, by the same turn, I know there is no way he would ever leave – he wouldn’t do it to the children and has said this often in the heat of a row. So he is here to stay. Just not because of me.

I’ll never know if Keith truly loves me.

There are two huge things wrong with that last statement:  1)  Most marriages may begin with romantic love, but that is not what sustains them; and 2) Men show their love by DOING, and for the love of fucking god, what more do you expect Keith to do?

http://judgybitch.com/2012/11/07/men-talk-about-their-feelings-all-the-time-they-just-dont-use-words/

It’s hard to imagine Keith could have bestowed his loyalty and dedication and children on a more undeserving woman.  You’ll never know if he loves you?  He’s there.  He has built a life with you.  He tolerates your insecurities and selfishness and your tendencies to beat the crap out of your children (something I will never understand).  By your own words, you know he will never leave you.  He will never hurt his own children.  He will never let your bat-shit craziness destroy him or his family.

What do you think love means, if not that?

love

The dictionary definition of “love” is something like an intense feeling of attachment or affection for a particular person or thing, but that definition spins a little differently when sex and marriage and children come into play.  “Love” becomes a term that expresses evolutionary-economic exchange.

Here is a link to an article at Psychology Today that discusses a paper published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology called Let’s Get Serious: Communicating Commitment in Romantic Relationships.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-character/201103/what-does-the-phrase-i-love-you-really-mean

Are men or women more likely to confess love first in romantic relationships? And how do men and women feel when their partners say “I love you”? An evolutionary– economics perspective contends that women and men incur different potential costs and gain different potential benefits from confessing love. Across 6 studies testing current and former romantic relationships, we found that although people think that women are the first to confess love and feel happier when they receive such confessions, it is actually men who confess love first and feel happier when receiving confessions.

i love

The researchers begin with the premise that “love” expresses an indication of future devotion, a commitment to future behavior.  And naturally, men and women have different attitudes and needs when it comes to future commitment.  Men say “I love you” to help move a relationship to a sexual level, which doesn’t mean they don’t actually love the person, it just means uttering the words is a good strategy for getting laid.  Women say “I love you” once a sexual relationship is underway, because a potential child could be on the way, too, and she will need some devotion to raise that child.

Here is where the research gets interesting:  men reported being happier hearing “I love you” BEFORE sex occurs, while women report being happier hearing “I love you” AFTER sex has already taken place.  Both men and women consider the timing of the expression to be more honest.

If a man says “I love you” AFTER he has already had sex with you, he is clearly not using love as a technique for getting in your pants.  If a woman says “I love you” BEFORE she has sex, she is clearly not just trying to trap you into caring for your offspring.

What is really important here is that love comes down to devotion.  To commitment.  A man who says “I love you” after he has already had sex with you is a man prepared to devote himself to you.  In Shona’s case, Keith’s unquestioning devotion to her and their children IS LOVE.  And because Keith expressed that love AFTER she was already pregnant, it is arguably MORE HONEST an expression than any other could ever be.

Why doesn’t Shona get that?

romance

Let’s try to unpack what women mean when they say “romance” and “love”.  I don’t think Shona is alone in doubting her husband’s love because he is not expressing it exactly the way she wants him to.  In fact, I know she’s not.  It’s one of women’s top complaints about their husbands.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361317/Wives-tire-marriage-husbands-stop-romantic.html

Hell, I complain about it, too!  But Mr. JB’s lack of romantic impulses doesn’t make me doubt his love for me, it just makes me think he’s being a dick.   So I overcome my natural shyness and reluctance to express my opinions (hahahahahahahaha!), and I ASK him to give me what I want or do what I would like.

bath

Buy me flowers

Run me a bubble bath

Write me a sonnet (that worked out well)

http://judgybitch.com/2013/06/10/alpha-beta-dickhead-is-there-some-middle-ground-help-me-out-here/

I am well and fully aware that there is a huge disparity between me and my husband when it comes to the idea of “romance”, but I have never, for one moment confused “romance” with love.  Love is going to work every day.  Love is paying all the bills.  Love is being here even when I’m being unreasonable or I’m in a bad mood or I’ve had a rough day with the kids and I take it out on him.

It happens.

meal

My love is providing all his meals, keeping our house (somewhat) neat and tidy, caring for our children with as much kindness and patience as I can muster, being here even when he’s boring me into a coma with the details of some stupid planning meeting or yelling at me because something at work pissed him off.

For my husband, that’s enough.  Devotion, commitment, tolerance, patience and the rock solid knowledge that I will never leave.  For me, it’s not.  I want all those little fairy tale gestures, too.  Yes, I realize it’s not fair.  If he is happy just knowing that I am here, I should be happy just knowing that he is here.  Well, I’m not.   Boo fucking hoo.  Buy me some flowers.  Life isn’t fair.

flowers

When he falls off the “I must please my irrational wife” bandwagon, I don’t confuse that with “he doesn’t love me”.  Pleasing me is not love.  Sharing my interests is not love.  Love is being here.  Forever.

The fact that Shona’s marriage had a rough start is irrelevant.  What happened fourteen years ago doesn’t mean one goddamn thing.  It’s everything that has happened since then that matters.

grad

True story:  Mr. JB and I met at grad school, far away from our families and we were free to ignore all their expectations and aspirations for us.  We dated for a year, and then decided that we would be engaged for a full year, not to plan a wedding (how dumb), but to be sure.  To be certain we were making the right decision. To have time to turn over the idea that this would be forever.  To have a few fights, and figure out how we would solve them.  To really get to know each other.

And everything was fine until we took jobs in a city that put us in regular contact with his family.  And his mother in particular.  Mr. JB had spent the two previous years before he met me in Japan, and a lot of that had to do with freeing himself from the suffocating influence of his mother.  I have some compassion for the Dowager, as Mr. JB is an only child, and that was not by choice.  The Dowager had wanted three children, but she suffered from secondary infertility and miscarried every other child she conceived.  There were many.

miscarry

I cannot imagine her heartbreak.

Understandably, Mr. JB is incredibly precious to his parents, and when they met me, they were visibly, palpably upset. I was not the woman they had in mind for their darling son.  Because I did not really know them, I did not see all the ways in which they disparaged me, or called into question Mr. JB’s choice.  Apparently, I was on the receiving end of many snarky, snide, insulting comments, but I’m not fluent in Snotbag White Speak, so I missed them.

When Mr. JB broke off our engagement two days before Christmas, I was completely blindsided.

shattered

Absolutely the worst Christmas of my life.  I was devastated.  Shattered. And so was he.  He spent several weeks talking with two of his very close friends, who eventually helped him to see that he was completely nuts to bow to his parents, and six weeks later, the phone rang and he asked me to meet him at a hotel restaurant.

He explained everything that had gone on in his mind and by the end of dinner, he asked me to marry him all over again.

rose

You know what I recall the most about that whole episode? That when I met him outside the hotel, he had a single rose.  One.  It makes me laugh, even now, to think about it.  Dude, are you fucking serious?  If ever there was a time to splurge on a dozen roses, THIS IS IT!

But nope. One rose.  I still have it.

I don’t look back on that in anger.  He made a mistake.  He fixed it.  And he saved the $24 a dozen roses would have cost.  Four months later, we married.  His parents looked like they were at a funeral.  It was terrible, and I’m sure it was unpleasant for Mr. JB to see them react like that.

This summer will be our thirteenth wedding anniversary.  I don’t look back to the beginning of our relationship and think “he didn’t love me enough to stand up to his mother”.  If I ever bring the subject up, it’s in jest.

beach

Love isn’t a single moment frozen in time.  It isn’t one act or one thought or one word.  It’s a long series of moments and acts and words that have no end but one.

Death.

old

One day, we will be old, and we will die.  And love will be the culmination of every day we spent together.  Because that is what love is.  A lifetime of devotion.

After 14 years, it looks to me like Keith knows what love is.  God knows why, but he loves her.  I actually feel sorry for Shona.  How awful to not see something so beautiful, right in front of your face.

shona

I wonder if that wonky eye has anything to do with it?

Lots of love,

JB

48 Responses to “Shona Sibary is a vindictive, insecure, blathering idiot who accidentally tells a great story about what marriage really is. Count your blessings, you foolish cow. Count your blessings.”

  1. thehumanscorch July 4, 2013 at 17:36 #

    Well. This is what female hypergamy gets you. Shona couldn’t let him go and she can’t have his heart. So instead of being content and grateful for what she *did* get, she complains anyway. She built that fake life by trapping a man, old school style, with an unplanned pregnancy, she doesn’t get to now complain about what was always obvious:
    he doesn’t love her. He just liked having sex with her.
    And it’s always honorable men that aren’t smart enough to use condoms 100% that get trapped. And notice how it’s STILL not enough?
    FEMALE HYPERGAMY.
    You have to be the right height, age, color, have the right profession, right amount of cash, the right car, the right hair, sense of humor, interests, say the right things, the right way, at the right time, make up for every wrong, be strong, be a leader, yet be sensitive and romantic but not TOO sensitive and romantic or else no wet vagina for you, and if you miss any one of those then SHE’S JUST NOT HAPPY AND YOU HAVE TO REASSURE HER EVERY TWO SECONDS.

    I say, it’s time for equality.
    If she can’t stay looking nineteen, have perky tits all her life, clear skin, give you sex on demand, ride you like a pornstar and give you respect & gratitude for everything you do, REPLACE HER.
    Let’s get some male hypergamy going around here!

    Like

  2. M3 July 4, 2013 at 17:37 #

    So much truth in this post, it’s hard to boil it down to any one sentiment.

    Reciprocity of caring.

    LOL’d hard on the very last line.

    Like

  3. Radical Suburbanite July 4, 2013 at 18:04 #

    Beautiful post JB. The sad thing is that Keith has bestowed on Shona a devotion she doesn’t deserve and it’s clear by her behavior that she knows it.

    I’m glad Mr. JB came to his senses and didn’t let his family try to pick his wife for him. My mom was the same kind of awful to me when I met my husband but her taste in men for me was disastrous and I told her she didn’t get a vote. Plus, my dad liked my husband (thank goodness) and that put the end to that discussion. 18 years later (15 of them married) I couldn’t be more grateful for the man I married.

    Like

  4. Alex July 4, 2013 at 18:35 #

    it won’t. men don’t have the emotional fortitude for it

    Like

  5. Alex July 4, 2013 at 18:41 #

    i’m surprised he hasn’t packed up the kids and left. doesn’t sound much like they would care, with the way she acts towards them. i bet he’s cottoned on to the possibility of said “accidental pregnancy” not being so accidental by now. she doesn’t deserve a family, and i might be tempted to say she doesn’t deserve access to any grandkids

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  6. thehumanscorch July 4, 2013 at 18:47 #

    Men don’t have the emotional fortitude for what? To want something better, younger, bigger & perkier tits, better in bed, more grateful?

    …Guess again.

    Like

  7. Alex July 4, 2013 at 18:54 #

    hypergamy takes a certain callousness that i find most can’t keep up for long. anyone wanting that kind of setup is wanting it for sex, not life.

    Like

  8. feeriker July 4, 2013 at 19:14 #

    Well said. Most of us men really aren’t wired for hypergamy. The guy who dumps his wife of thirty-plus years for the “younger model” is the exception to the rule (which is not to say that many guys don’t “sample the merchandise on the market” – they just don’t actually trade in the old for the new). Those who do make that less-than-well-thought-out plunge very often soon regret it, dearly.

    Like

  9. thehumanscorch July 4, 2013 at 19:22 #

    Oh, I see. You have to have a certain level of narcissistic bitchiness that men just can’t match on average. That is actually probably true.

    Like

  10. feeriker July 4, 2013 at 19:26 #

    So here is the quick and dirty story about Shona’s marriage: she dated her husband for six years and he finally confessed he couldn’t imagine waking up to her every day for the rest of his life and then vomited. They parted, but then had a little break-up sex party and Shona “accidentally” got pregnant.

    Well, I guess it just goes to prove that brains and character aren’t necessarily related. Keith must have issues if he could’ve stuck with someone like Shona for six god-awful years. If he’s as nice as he’s made out to be in print, he had to have had other options than Shona (or, then again, given what we all know women to be like, he was probably one of those “nice guys” who was exiled permanently to the “friend zone” before Shona picked him up and ultimately trapped him). I’m tempted to apply the dreaded “mangina” label here.

    As far as Keith packing up the kids and leaving is concerned, I don’t see it happening unless Shona completely loses it, goes violently bat-shit out of control, and starts severely physically abusing the kids and destroying the household. If he’s put up with her bitchy, bullying bullshit for this long, he’ll continue to do so indefinitely. He might kick her to the curb if she commits adultery on him, but that’s not only a difficult scenario to imagine (what man in even the most deranged state of mind what even think of shagging that grotesque creature?), but given what Keith’s put up with so far, he’d probably sigh with relief if it did happen (“Poor bloody bastard. Does he have any idea what he’s in for?”).

    Like

  11. thehumanscorch July 4, 2013 at 19:27 #

    That’s because the laws are stacked against us.
    Let’s change the laws to reflect the new male paradigm:
    Male hypergamy! …..which is really just polygamy.
    It’s only because making “the plunge” is so costly for men. When your wife gets unhaaaaaaaapy and wants to Eat, Pray, and Love, she gets compensated for her position(no matter how well she performed in it) with the house, the cars, the cash, and preference over the kids.
    I say equality!
    When she is a complaining ungrateful 40+ bitch with no youth or beauty to offer any more, you get to trade her in and keep your house, cash, cars, and access to your kids. Again….this would rule.

    Like

  12. feeriker July 4, 2013 at 19:32 #

    Oh, and just to be clear, when I call Shona “grotesque” in the above post, it’s in reference to her repulsive personality, NOT her looks. If I knew nothing else about her but her picture, I’d have to see that that “wonky” right eye makes her look sort of cute.

    Like

  13. Eric July 4, 2013 at 20:18 #

    “taken in hand”

    I’ve browsed a few taken-in-hand and dom/sub women’s blogs and Shibary does sound like the women who need that level of tangible affirmation their man is committed to them.

    Like

  14. Andy July 4, 2013 at 21:29 #

    Hey don’t be so nasty to Shona, she’s a babe. I’d fuck her so hard her eyes would cross…..oh…ahem…sorry.

    Like

  15. feeriker July 4, 2013 at 21:48 #

    When she is a complaining ungrateful 40+ bitch with no youth or beauty to offer any more, you get to trade her in and keep your house, cash, cars, and access to your kids. Again….this would rule.

    Trade old misery for new? Pass.

    Like

  16. Marcus July 5, 2013 at 02:13 #

    Great article J.B. this:

    “Love isn’t a single moment frozen in time. It isn’t one act or one thought or one word. It’s a long series of moments and acts and words that have no end but one. Death.

    One day, we will be old, and we will die. And love will be the culmination of every day we spent together. Because that is what love is. A lifetime of devotion.”

    is one of the best definitions of love I have ever heard.

    I was wondering if you don’t mind sharing, what was it about you that Mr. J.B.’s mother objected to?

    Like

  17. judgybitch July 5, 2013 at 02:16 #

    Hmmm

    That’s a rather long list but it comes down to one thing: class

    We scrabbled for a living

    Absolutely not middle class

    And Mr. JB’s family is very comfortably middle class

    “A fork is a fork, who gives a fuck” – very much frowned upon

    It’s been much harder to manage than I ever imagined.

    Like

  18. Alex July 5, 2013 at 02:49 #

    i will never understand the upper class’s fascination of assigning a use to different versions of the same damn thing. guess i’ll never get my chance to have dinner with the Queen.

    Like

  19. A. July 5, 2013 at 07:13 #

    This story reminds me of my father,
    after his divorce with my mother he had a quick fling with a 19-years younger woman who “accidentally” got pregnant. He was not very attracted to her, he was not interested in more children, and he was a homeless acoholic after my mom kicked him out of the house.
    However, he accepted the responsibility and he is now the hard working father of not only me and my siblings but of two extra well raised sons. I never thought it would work out, but they are actually a great team together. Both devoted to the kids and eachother.
    His words: “I wasn’t in love with her, I started loving her as I saw what a great (step)mother and wife she was and still is”.
    Its strange, just as I couldn’t imagine those two together (19 years her senior!)I can’t imagine them apart now.
    (Btw my father’s idea of romance is farting in unison, she is a very special woman for sure to still be so happy with an old, poor fart like my dad)

    And JB, you are so eloquent and rude at the same time, its scary!
    This was a wonderful piece that touched my heart.

    Like

  20. lelnet July 5, 2013 at 08:02 #

    Whatever dictionary that comes from can stuff it, and so can every dictionary that says the same thing.

    Love is sacrifice. “I love you”, when it comes right down to it, means one of two things:

    1. “I would die for you. I probably won’t have to, but I would, if it came to that. I would also endure whatever must be endured, in order to achieve what is good for you.” (Although with the caveat that “what is good for you” is not always the same thing as “what you think you want”.)
    2. “I am lying to you, in order to induce you to initiate or continue a sexual relationship with me.”

    In the early phases of dating, they can be hard to tell apart, since the liars (by definition) who are using #2 will try as hard as necessary to seem to mean #1. But once you’ve passed the altar, it’s pretty safe to count on the fact that #2 isn’t a factor anymore. All the more so, in the case of someone whose willingness to endure sacrifice for the good of the one he loves has already been objectively and observably demonstrated.

    Friendship and companionship and desire and romance and sexual attraction, all other things being equal, are good things to have in one’s life. I’m wholeheartedly for ’em all, especially in marriage. But love is something else entirely. Which is how you can love your spouse (with whom you presumably desire sexual intercourse) and your children (with whom only sick perverts desire sexual intercourse) equally.

    Like

  21. Radical Suburbanite July 5, 2013 at 08:31 #

    That’s actually a very sweet story. Just goes to show how well people can do when they put their priorities in the right place. Both your dad and your stepmom deserve a lot of credit.

    Like

  22. feeriker July 5, 2013 at 09:03 #

    guess i’ll never get my chance to have dinner with the Queen.

    Everybody say “FOOD FIGHT!”

    Like

  23. Spaniard July 5, 2013 at 10:03 #

    This point is very interesting.
    Men cheat, but men keep their wives.
    When a woman cheats is usually to live hubby for other.
    Except in the case of British women, who they cheat just like men and they kep their hubbys.
    I love British women.

    Like

  24. Spaniard July 5, 2013 at 10:08 #

    Well said.
    In muslims countries no woman 40+ dares to behave bitchy because she knows what can happen: repudiation from hubby with just a little (very little) economic compensation.
    This muslims know how to live!

    Like

  25. Spaniard July 5, 2013 at 10:13 #

    Judgybitch, i give you this from XVII Century Spanish poet Francisco de Quevedo (it a verse from a long soent):

    “Un dia sere polvo, mas polvo enamorado”
    “One day I will be dust, but dust in love”.

    Like

  26. Spaniard July 5, 2013 at 10:15 #

    Sonet.

    Like

  27. Spaniard July 5, 2013 at 10:22 #

    The bless (maybe the problem, I am not sure) for us, men, is that we do not give a damn about money incoms in women, or if they have a cool job.
    Dating a hot waitress is fab for men with a better job. Women with a better job would never ever date a waiter seriously (maybe a shag)

    “Men just expect one thing from women. Women expect EVERYTHING from men”.
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    Like

  28. Spaniard July 5, 2013 at 10:34 #

    “Leave”

    Like

  29. Spaniard July 5, 2013 at 12:06 #

    I remember once, a few years ago… I had a great shag with a woman I really liked (not professional), after sex I told her, sweetly, to her ear: “I love you”… and she puked.

    Cold, heartless bitches!

    Like

  30. B July 6, 2013 at 01:29 #

    My Mother in law didn’t like me too much either at first either. My husband is not an only child, but she is his only son. A very cherished son. A son she saw get used and screwed over by various girls.

    She didn’t really start to like me until she saw the type of wife I am to her son and the type of mother I am to her grandchildren. Understandably so, my mother in law is a diamond in the rough, a rare and amazing woman. She’s a great mom and a loving selfless wife. Someone I definitely look up to. She had high expectations. 🙂 She loves me to pieces now, but oh man…it was a rough few first years. I recommended your blog to her recently…she likes it.

    Like

  31. B July 6, 2013 at 01:53 #

    I meant to say that he’s her only son. Ugh…long day lol.

    Like

  32. froxxy July 6, 2013 at 04:04 #

    My parents (divorced, but in unison on this one) hated my husband for the same reason. While I grew up dirt poor, we came from money, while my hubby is from a long line of dirt poor farmers and miners. Somehow, since my grandparents were well off, my mother and father thought that this made me above him.

    And I just laughed at her. What the fuck do I need to be rich for? We can, and have, been happy at any income.

    My husband’s parents, by the way, love me. We are moving them in soon, and while I could live without my MIL, I’m really excited about my future kids being so close with my FIL.

    Like

  33. Marlo Rocci July 6, 2013 at 16:31 #

    If I were Shona’s husband, I would have the DNA checked on kid number one just to make sure it was mine. I wouldn’t put it passed her to get a “donation” to trap her man into marriage.

    Like

  34. judgybitch July 6, 2013 at 17:31 #

    The only reason I think that’s highly unlikely is because if it were true that she cuckolded her husband and trapped with a child that wasn’t even his, she would have splashed it all over the Daily Mail long ago.

    Miss an opportunity to publicly humiliate and hurt her husband?

    Not Shona! Never!

    Like

  35. thehumanscorch July 6, 2013 at 19:15 #

    “Miss an opportunity to publicly humiliate and hurt her husband?

    Not Shona! Never!”

    And behold the warpedness of life.
    A woman that looks and acts like THAT gets a man whose character is so strong he won’t break his commitment no matter what.

    Like

  36. Master Beta July 8, 2013 at 14:03 #

    And this should serve as a warning to all men: Wear a condom – it’s just not worth it.

    Like

  37. desperada57 July 8, 2013 at 16:53 #

    AND check it for holes!

    Like

  38. Reggie July 8, 2013 at 22:39 #

    Wear a condom … and pull out! 100% effective.

    Like

  39. wdodman July 8, 2013 at 22:40 #

    And flush it.

    Like

  40. judgybitch July 8, 2013 at 23:27 #

    Okay

    But in terms of pleasure…. doesn’t that suck?

    *covers eyes*
    *ready for TMI*

    Like

  41. Reggie July 10, 2013 at 15:30 #

    I replied before but it didn’t stay. My reply was:

    Suck for who? It sucks more to be forced into parenthood or to have your child killed without your input or consent.

    Like

  42. Reggie July 10, 2013 at 19:04 #

    Only a complete moron would risk all that for a little more pleasure. Raw dogging is much more pleasurable but it carries even more risk.

    Like

  43. kris October 10, 2013 at 16:11 #

    by the way if you want to personal email her she’s on Facebook people I just sent her nasty email.

    Like

  44. Paul August 19, 2014 at 23:46 #

    She will know if he loves her. If he stays with her after the kids are grown then he loves her. Otherwise he loves the kids more than his own happiness and is staying because he knows if he leaves then the only thing which will change is he won’t see his children very often, if at all; he will still have to pay for her, for the house, and not have sex with her – upside is he will be able to have a relationship with a woman that actually cares for him if he can overcome the damage done to his ego and self esteem.

    Like

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