Mr. JB Speaks

18 Jul

This is just so perfect. I have a routine medical scan at 8:15 AM, and of course, I never gave a moment’s thought to how that would impact my normal schedule of getting up early to watch the sunrise with some lovely French Roast, and getting my post sorted and up by noon.

coffee

My husband has been quietly stewing since the Alpha, Beta, Dickhead post, absolutely seething over the idea that making fatherhood and being a husband a priority somehow makes him a snivelling, boot-licking beta.

http://judgybitch.com/2013/06/10/alpha-beta-dickhead-is-there-some-middle-ground-help-me-out-here/

I know him.  He has been working on this for a while, without a word to me.  When it showed up in my inbox this afternoon, I was very pleasantly surprised. The timing was not a coincidence.  He knew I had an appointment, and he knew that I would not have planned for that, and he has provided me with a post to make my day go as pleasantly as I might wish.

I’m posting it now so I can get up tomorrow and feel that I’ve already accomplished part of what I intended for the day.

Here, in my husband’s words, is what it is like to be married to me.  Illustrated with a few memes I created this evening out on the back deck, watching the kids try to mortally injure themselves on the netted trampoline my Dad bought for them.

trampoline

When you fall in love with the smartest person in your MBA class you know you are signing up for a wild ride.  I had played the field for over a decade by that point and it was time to settle down.  I consider myself an “alpha” because I was always in charge of my relationships.  I wanted a partner who could keep up with me and also keep me captivated so that I would never consider straying.  Too many relationships I’d had before faded out due to boredom.  When I met JB we were both on personal pathways of growth that included marriage, family and stability.  Stability is basically what I bring to the table – she brings the passion, creativity, loving, caring, nurturing angle to everything she does.  Her mind never stops and I am fortunate that she found me worthy of the life journey we are on together.  Is life with her perfect – no.  She can be more than a bitch – as you can probably imagine.  But she is my bitch and I love every ounce of her being.

meme 1

One of the topics that I believe is under-discussed on the JB blog is the idea of “finding middle ground” or “putting relationships into perspective for mutual gain”.  JB promotes the nuclear family and has obviously found a welcome audience that also feels that the world has skewed everything toward women and away from men – or away from the place where both parties benefit equally.  That is really it – mutual benefit where both parties feel wanted, loved, cared for, productive, and generally happy.  We only go around once, people, so I suggest making the best of what we have.

I do not participate in many online communities but I am flattered that the regular group validates what we have.  I consider myself very lucky to have the relationship that I have but it does not come without pain or compromise (and many compromises with JB can be painful).  That is another important point – does anything worthwhile come easily?  This idea of working at a relationship or really working to bring your children up well is not validated anymore.   My personal opinion is that the support systems that came with organized religion are now lost and the void is yet to be filled – perhaps online forums such as this will fill it – I’m not sure.  Perhaps that is a topic for another day.

Some perspective on JB might help some of the readers bring additional context to the blog.  She has been very forthcoming (sometimes uncomfortably so) with hers (and my) personal information.  The post regarding her father was, I believe, an amazing display of sharing to bring perspective to her writing.  She posts and soon after reads the post to me (so I do not have a chance to censor it before it goes into cyberspace) where I have a chance to put it into perspective before comments come rolling in.  I must say it has been interesting having some of my most intimate relationship details plastered over the internet but I believe that I have learned to appreciate more of what I have through this experience.  Sometimes perspective is all we really need and I think the core group of commenters have really created a wonderful forum where balance can be sought again.

meme 2

In my relationship with JB, I believe that it is our class difference that defines our relationship and it has been our biggest challenge to-date.  In the grand scheme of things it is manageable and able to be overcome by two adults who understand what they were getting into.  I think of our friends who are not in long-term relationships, those who cannot conceive children, and those who do not enjoy the love and caring that we experience on a day-to-day basis and it reaffirms how lucky we are – class difference be damned.  In a relationship there are always challenges and as I have seen from our divorced friends, a new partner just brings a different set of challenges.  I am very lucky to have the challenges that I have.

A woman who grows up with three brothers in mining camps has a particular view of the world that was shaped by things that many of us cannot possibly understand.  Constant moves (much like an army brat), unfortunate and pretty terrible violence, also affects the way relationships are formed and how they evolve quickly.  Having a father who suffers from PTSD combined with religion breeds an atheistic view of the world that is constantly being refreshed.  To be honest it takes most of my mental energy just to keep up with her changing perspectives.  What many call a “critical mind” is one that is constantly searching for truth or additional perspective on the currently held “truth”.  I applaud the readers for embarking on this journey with JB as I feel there is too little of it in our society.  Children are being raised to be sheep and the status quo is not challenged nearly enough.  Learning is not happening quickly enough nor is our western society evolving fast enough.  Perhaps I am influenced from my time in Asia but there is a new kid in town and his name is on almost every product we buy.  I fear for our western future as we depart from our nuclear family past and ‘move forward’ with ideas of ‘equality’ for both sexes.  As JB has mentioned, there are a finite number of jobs and money.  The more we are divided the more likely we are to be conquered.

On the frustration side of our relationship is her constant need to feed everyone who comes anywhere near our home (you can imagine the food budget – especially when everything needs to be organic).  To criticize this expense or this approach to life is to criticise her view of the world.  Do I like to pay for food for everyone – no.  Do I want a harmonious household with someone who has a different value system than I do? – yes.  Life is always about compromise.  The managers in the audience will appreciate this.  That doesn’t mean you don’t pick your battles but in reference to JB’s Captain/First Officer model, it is the Captain’s responsibility to take everyone into consideration – with the Captain’s needs likely coming last.

This brings up another topic which I believe takes about 10 years with a person to realize.  First, the mapping of your value system and where it is different from your partner.  Second, understanding what will change and what will never change.  And lastly, beginning to see the world through the other person’s eyes and understanding that some actions (like feeding everyone) are very important to the person you love and will never be important to you.   Will I ever like buying food for people who I barely know and who have more cashflow than I do?  No.  Do I love my wife and want her to continue to view/act in the world in the way that truly makes her happy?  Yes.  It begins as a cost/benefit analysis – how much will intervening piss her off?  Later it evolves into a deeper understanding of the person and how she views the world.  If I didn’t like her view of the world then I shouldn’t have married her.  This realization is somewhat shocking.  Neither she or I are ever going to change – so now what?  Getting to that happy place where you get this into perspective is really what happiness in a relationship is all about, in my opinion.

meme 3

True story – we were having dinner in the northwestern US on a research trip during grad school.  We were on a limited budget supported by the university and the bill came and JB decided to tip the admittedly very good waitress over 25%.  I lost it and started lecturing her on how we were going to get audited and lose our travel funding.  Well, you can imagine the discussion.  After voices were raised and I was told how much of a middle-class prick I was and how her mother had supported them as a waitress and she herself had spent many hours slinging hash cheerfully for paying customers – things got really ugly.  I was used to calling the shots and she was not prepared to back down.  In retrospect I’m surprised we weren’t asked to leave the restaurant.  Anyway, the large tip was left and we were both upset.  Values system clash of the largest proportions.   Should it have been a warning that we were incompatible?  Some might think so (such as my mother) but I believe that for both of us it was a learning opportunity.  A learning experience in how to fight fair, to understand that the other is different on this particular topic, and that we would likely never agree.  “Agree to disagree” perhaps.  When you marry someone from a vastly different background then these things are bound to happen.  Is it comfortable?  No.  Does it make you re-examine your view of the world?  Yes.  Are you a critically thinking being who wants to evolve in this lifetime rather than just having your current viewpoints validated by everyone around you?  Make your choice – I made mine.  Is it always pleasant?  No.  Is the unexamined life worth living?  You decide.

This makes me think of the alpha debate.  I liked Goober’s response best.  The idea of an alpha turning into a beta after having children made me want to throw my phone across the room.  Alphas grow up and want to see their genetic offspring prosper.  Ever heard of a pride of lions?  What is the alpha doing?  Playing the field of prospective mates is just an activity to sift and winnow to find the right one and making sure that he gets to breed with her.   One that is genetically superior to others you have met.  This gets into JB’s posts on weight management and natural beauty.  An alpha wants to win – which (if you’ve read your Sun Tsu) means that sometimes you have to lose a battle to win a war.  This can mean choosing someone who you know deep-down is best.  Not the easiest catch, not the richest woman, not the one your mother wants you to marry — the one that you know you are going to have to live with the consequences and deep-down you know what is most important.  Alphas fear guilt – guilt that comes with the self-punishment of making a bad decision.  An alpha does not need to be told he failed – his own punishment of himself will be far more critical than another person will be.  Think about this the next time you get a performance evaluation —- before you open it make a list of what you failed at.  My list is often double what my superior says I did wrong.  I take responsibility and to delegate that sort of thing is just not alpha.

Alphas want their children to do better than they did –in everything.  That is why you take the pain – in your relationship, in your life choices (job, living location, etc.)  Once you conceive a child it is not about you anymore.  An alpha is in charge – of everyone and all processes regardless of who you think is in control.  She pays the bills? – then you make sure the money is in the account – confirm it, make sure, mitigate against failure, leave nothing to chance.  This is the foundation of stability and control – diligence.

If a child fails it is the alpha’s fault.  If a marriage fails it is the alpha’s fault.  If the bills do not get paid on time it is the alpha’s fault.  Alpha’s take responsibility and it is not about gloating about successes.  Everyone knows so nothing needs to be said.  We are all in competition.  Western society is a meritocracy even if the feminists don’t like it.

meme 4

Alphas can dominate in the sphere in which they choose to compete.  Like the scope of territory a pride of lions lives in.  Does one lion dominate all of the savannah?  No.  Can you dominate investment banking in both London and New York?  Not likely.  I think the discussion needs to focus on alphas defining the scope of their operating territory.  Once that is established then a more meaningful discussion can happen.  Again, perhaps a topic for another day.

Part of an alpha choosing a mate is taking responsibility for her – financially, genetically (in terms of offspring), as well as in other ways.  Will she always be happy where you are living?  Perhaps JB will blog about when I was between jobs and she took a job in a coffee shop to tide us over financially.  I appreciated her willingness to pitch in, but honestly, I thought the job was humiliating.  How can an MBA, previously working for one of the world’s top performing banks work in a coffee shop?  She thought nothing of the sort, and went cheerfully to work every day.  She didn’t need to do that however, because I was already planning for our future and a short time later I secured a job in a perfect location for her. Unfortunately it was not the best location for me personally.  But that didn’t matter.  First, it was a well-paying, full-time job with iron-clad job security.  Years later as my soul slowly dies in this small town I know that it was the right decision to take that job and it is the right decision to keep the job (overseas opportunities still present themselves annually).  Alphas don’t need to be happy – they need to fulfill their roles to the best of their ability or else they don’t sleep at night.  This is not a martyr thing – it is a provider thing.  Alphas get more satisfaction from providing than from being happy.  If your pride isn’t moving forward you will be up all night worrying about it.  If you are one you know what I mean.

As you can imagine, JB is very blunt with language – I never have to guess what she is thinking.  This is a refreshing, somewhat male approach to communication but that is what comes with growing up with three brothers.  Yes, in some social situations I am cringing around my middle class family and friends but the alternative is having a mate crying in the corner when something is troubling her.  I hate guessing.  My whole childhood was trying to guess what the fuck was up my mother’s ass now. I prefer to get hit over the head with issues.  Just a personal choice.  I believe that a relentlessly happy and chipper partner means she is capable of subterfuge and lying.  No one is happy and chipper all the damn time. There is no silver bullet.  My mother never says a negative word to anyone but she is capable of frightening and very subtle aggression.  Different delivery methods depending on class.  I would encourage everyone to consider their preference before selecting a life partner.

That leads to another topic that, I believe, has been under-discussed on the blog – the idea that each positive has a negative.  I like to chat about my day to JB and when she lies down on the floor and closes her eyes I know that she is not very engaged in my discussion topic.  Sometimes I need a time out to go to my mental happy place before re-engaging with her.  On the other hand, when she goes quiet I get really worried.  That’s usually when she is so angry she is going to explode.  Communication differs between couples but, as I remind my colleagues, it is a two-way street.  I constantly have to think about how I am communicating before I rush to judge how she is communicating back.  This took me many years to understand – how to manage oneself for the good of the relationship.

meme 5

We spend a lot of time with our kids and we both insist that they must treated with kindness. If you don’t know what to do, and god knows that happens pretty much every damn day, default to what is kind.  I married a woman who would overwrite the most negative aspects of my childhood.  I believe she did the same.  I am boringly stable but she grew up in such a world of volatility and pretty horrific violence, where the gold mine sirens went off weekly signalling an accident in the mine and her father moving the family every few months, sometimes just to avoid social services who took an interest in how she and her brothers were disciplined.  She wanted stability for her and her children.  I grew up in a Dr. Spock household where hugging was discouraged.  I wanted a loving, dynamic environment where togetherness and interactions are the norm.  What do you want?  What are the best and worst aspects of your upbringing?  How are you going to make the environment for your children better than your childhood?  If you are going to choose to have children then I think you need to focus on this.

Some people say we are “too privileged”, “too educated”, “too well travelled” so naturally we have the perfect family.  Let me tell you how many dates JB and I have had in the last 12 years — 2 — because our friend JudgyAsshole was nice enough to watch our kids for us.  Do we want to go on more dates?   Yes.  This requires budgetary choices.  We can’t afford to buy organic food for the children (and everyone else on the block) and also eat out.  Can’t do it.  JB can cook better than 99% of restaurants anyway.  She takes her cooking to a higher level.  Remember the post about the President’s party?  Unbelievable food for 35 people.

I like saying the words “we can’t afford it”.  Initially you see shock on people’s faces but basically what you are saying is “we have priorities and are not willing to compromise them”.  I drive a shitty mini van.  When I went to the dealer to buy it the salesperson asked me if I wanted to test-drive it.  I said no – it is a drill bit.  I want the hole not the bit.  I like driving my 5 year old minivan because it says my family is more important than me.  Most people know we could likely afford a different vehicle but the symbolism is powerful.  What do you stand for?  What is important to you?  Who in your life is more important than you?   There is a special sense of satisfaction in providing, nurturing, caring and saying a polite “fuck you” to everyone around who is floundering to figure out if they should buy a new Prada bag or a BMW.  Who gives a shit?  This goes back to the alpha provider thing.

Perhaps living in a 12’x12’ room in Japan for two years just before JB and I met has shaped my idea of material possessions.  Have you read The Paradox of Choice?  Why do you want more?  Do you want more for you or for others?

choice

These days I love Christmas.  My parents always ask me what JB and I want for Christmas – new windows for part of the house, new tires for the van, etc. (it always has to be a functional gift from my utilitarian parents).  My response is always: “spend more on the kids – I don’t want anything”.  I just love to see the look on their faces.  It isn’t about me anymore.  I don’t want to feel guilty for taking anything away from them.   I chose to have them.  I am lucky to have them.  How could I possibly enjoy buying more shit for myself?  I justify alcohol because it allows me to hang out at home while watching them and giving JB a break.  Other material possessions – why?  Who are you competing with?  Yourself?  Perhaps a rethink is required.

This is enough of a rant from Mr. JB.  I really enjoy reading all of your comments and perhaps one day we can have a JB convention somewhere in the world.  Chicago might be central enough….

Lots of …. well, okay … trepidations

But respect, admiration and gratitude, too.

Thanks for giving my wife this awesome distraction from housework.

Mr. JB

94 Responses to “Mr. JB Speaks”

  1. Ami July 18, 2013 at 01:50 #

    There are several points in this post that I have heard from my own Alpha guy, although he often speaks with his actions rather than his words.

    My favorite thing about him is he likes to fix stuff… make sure we’re fed. Sheltered. Loved. Appreciated. He’s a good….no, a great man.

    And it sounds like JB has a pretty good one, too.

    Thanks for the insight.

    Like

  2. PrinceCharming July 18, 2013 at 01:56 #

    Ahhhh, how sweet of you Mr. JB.

    Like

  3. eddiejc1 July 18, 2013 at 03:23 #

    Mr. JB, you are very fortunate to have Her Honor for a wife, and she is equally lucky to have you for a husband.

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  4. Alex July 18, 2013 at 03:46 #

    i think for a lot of alphas, providing for someone does mean happiness. not in a direct way, but kind of like how Mr. JB mentioned that if they make a bad choice, where the bad choice is not being able to provide or something. i’m really able to explain it the way i want to, which sucks cause i know if i had better verbal skills i definitely would (GOD DAMNED SOCIAL AWKWARDNESS!!, okay yelling at myself over now). can someone help me explain this shit? it’s going to bug me if i can’t get it out right

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  5. laughingmime July 18, 2013 at 06:02 #

    troubling words, mr jb

    life is always about compromises? bullshit .

    if she were protestant , and you were catholic, how would you compromise on children’s religion?
    if she wanted school for them and you wanted to homeschool , what would you do?

    she wrote on this blog about your daughter and rape threats … if it was all true , that means she betrayed you
    that’s because she didn’t wait for you to handle it, but ran off to cops and school principal

    if you don’t get it… those were OTHER MEN

    methinks the only one working on relationship is you

    get down from your high horse , you’re phony alpha – you lead because she lets you

    and she has nuclear option, and you both know it

    ‘ I am fortunate that she found me worthy of the life journey we are on together. ‘ jesus, this is pathetic , grow a pair

    Like

  6. Exfernal July 18, 2013 at 11:22 #

    Twelve shaku room is pretty generous for a Japanese.

    That leads to another topic that, I believe, has been under-discussed on the blog – the idea that each positive has a negative.

    Like the polygynous structure of the lion pride and the issue of infanticide of cubs that have been sired by previous pack leader? A dark side of harem-type arrangements, I guess.

    Like

  7. Sherry July 18, 2013 at 11:49 #

    Mr. JB’s alphaness reminds me of my own father. He is working class dad with 3 kids and a shitty car, but he is a model of a man.
    I think the core of an alpha man is his selflessness. He puts others before him and is always ready to take a bullet for the team, but the team doesn’t always realize this because he never even expects gratitude from them.
    Thank you Mr. & Mrs. JB for sharing your lives and writings on your fantastic family. It warms my heart to see that there is still some good in this world.

    Like

  8. Liz July 18, 2013 at 11:58 #

    Well said, Mr JB! 🙂 Thanks for talking to us.

    Per the posers asserting fathers aren’t alpha…I kind of look at the internet like a busy highway. Some people are going to flip off anyone and everyone, blare the horn, et al. If you’ve ever actually confronted a person doing this to their face (ended up at the same store, or something and asked, “hey, why in the hell were you giving me the finger?”) they’re usually incredibly contrite and embarassed in person. People reserve that sort of speech for the internet (like their finger waving for cars) because they are cowards, and pretty unhappy people in general. They are to be pittied. I agree Goober said it best on that.

    Quote from Captain Capitalism: “the manosphere is honeycombed with wanna be’s, keyboard jockeys, and “manosphere academians” who have no front line, real world, experience and merely wish to study it from the safety of the anonymous internet.”

    Like

  9. Paul July 18, 2013 at 13:04 #

    My wife is a Spanish speaker, and one of the reasons she is my wife is she would more often express her contentment (contentamiento), as opposed to the more normal and expected (based on my experience) happiness (felicidad). You seem to hear nothing but talk of ‘haaaaapiness’ these days, and so her references to being content was different enough from the norm that I noticed it and it got me thinking. It’s a theme that’s around the manosphere and other places as well, the pursuit of happiness as it currently and popularly is expressed (probably summed up by ‘just do it’).

    Contentment is a state of being, to my mind, happiness is an emotion. You can have both, obviously, and I would expect a content person to be generally happier than most, but emotions are fleeting, subject to all kinds of volatility and influence. Think of all the times you were happy, and how easy it was for something to kill that buzz. Contentment is something else, a satisfaction with a state of being, it’s not going to go away because of something that popped up.

    I’ll try and give an illustrative example. Several years ago I was in a ward for cancer treatment, sharing a room with five other men, all older. One of them was an elderly gentleman, who was on his way out. He knew it more than anyone, having been a pioneering surgeon, who was prescribing his own medication. The respect that all the doctors and nurses had for him was palpable, and the contrast between the shitty way they treated the rest of the patient made it all the more apparent. He was visited daily by his wife, children (he had at least three) and grand-children. That he had a loving wife who respected him, a good relationship with his children and was a doting and beloved grandfather was equally obvious.

    My children also visited me, and at the time weren’t much older than his grandchildren. One day, he told me “I have had a long and full life and have finished doing all that I wanted to do. You are young, and your children need you. You have to be there for them.” Was he happy to be in the hospital, dying from cancer? I rather doubt it. Could you tell that it bothered him in the least? Not at all. He was content, serene even. I learned more from that brief exchange than most any other experience, and saw where I wanted to be when it was my time to go.

    This fellow was small, slight, an immigrant (from before I was born) originally from Eastern Europe, whose life had been in service to other professionally and personally. I rather doubt he was much of a playa’ when he was younger, although you never know. Pretty freaking alpha, if we need use these terms, for these things but especially for how he knew had an upcoming appointment with the grim reaper and was less bothered by it than some people are a trip to the dentist.

    The end of his message was a bit on the man-up side, because men take their responsibilities seriously and aren’t to leave the job undone. And I took that to heart.

    Like

  10. Spaniard July 18, 2013 at 13:18 #

    Liz and Mr. JB
    According to modern women standards, fathers and hubbys are not alpha. Alphas are just the womanisers.
    Why I personally think is that “alpha” is a factor which is extremely spread: alpha is handsome, smart, spiritual, physically strong, fast, tallented for arts, tallented for money, tallented for science, good worker, FATHER and HUBBY, womaniser, faithfull to one woman, brave soldier, peacemaker, firefighther, hunter, fisherman, agricultural, leader, doctor, architect, a saint who lives in chastity, charitative…all that is alpha. The concept alpha has been reduced last day to just one thing: nightclub PUA.
    Of course, it is impossible to have all that alpha factors concentrated in just one man. And that explains female promiscuity.
    I think the perfect example of an alpha woman searching for the alpha seed is Marilyn Monroe: she was with the sportsman, the tallented writer, the political leader… etc. She hitted the top of each category. The best genetical business to her, would be having one baby from each one of her husbands and lovers.
    So, well, “father and husband” is alpha too. Although, probably, most women in their twenties in the top of their game would disagree. They wil change their minds when they turn 30.

    Like

  11. Spaniard July 18, 2013 at 13:27 #

    This is a real story:
    Jean paul Sartre was a very ugly man, but he was a literary genious and very tallented with women.
    So, He was a terrible womaniser. He used to sleep with all that so chic French models of the 50s and 60s.
    One day, one of that extremely beautiful models (but she was not very smart) asked him to have a child together: “The child will have your brains and my looks”. And he refused: “No way, what happen if is the contrary?”.

    Like

  12. Alex July 18, 2013 at 14:22 #

    JB and her husband at least seem like people who could put that kind of shit aside to figure out what would be best for the kids, the same with schooling. as for the post about the rape threats, she also stated what Mr.JB was likely to do about such a thing, as actually did the right thing in calling the cops and principal, in ensuring that the boys got the discipline they needed and that Mr.JB didn’t end up in jail or anything so he could be there for them. also, how the hell would you know what constitutes an alpha? by example (if not definition), the only way you can lead is if the people you are leading LET YOU LEAD. if not, you turn into a tyrant. if JB didn’t think he was worth being her husband, do you really think she would keep it that way?

    Like

  13. Bob Wallace July 18, 2013 at 15:55 #

    There are a few well-known bloggers who write about “the social-sexual hierarchy” and have set definitions of Alpha, Beta, etc. (BTW, the accepted definition of Alpha is almost a perfect clinical description of a narcissist. For that matter, the Dark Triad is something that is not admirable in any way).

    There is something wrong with these bloggers. Perhaps they have little experience in life? They certainly are deluded. Unlike them, I have met narcissists, psychopaths, those of the “Dark Triad.” They were murderers, serial killers (one killed a woman I worked with, along with another woman and her three-year-old, whom he beat to death), thieves, muggers, con-men, ex-cons (and often not so ex), child molesters, child killers, woman-beaters.

    Apparently some confuse confidence (fortitude, perseverance, courage – one of the Four Cardinal Virtues) in yourself with the superficial charm/confidence of the narcissist/psychopath.

    These narcissists/psychopaths are the true Omegas. Alphas are actually. Omegas? A fair number of the concepts in the Manosphere have got things exactly backwards. Sad.

    A true “Alpha” is closer to being a patriarch than anything else.

    Of course, a certain number of religious fanatics will never give up the accepted definitions they have memorized and try to imitate. It give them “answers” without having to think about anything. They are the same kind you see in any cult.

    Like

  14. judgybitch July 18, 2013 at 15:57 #

    I love that word.

    Patriarch.

    It has no negative connotations to me at all.

    That is exactly what my husband is.

    Like

  15. RedPillOverdose July 18, 2013 at 15:59 #

    When I hear a man being referred to as a “beta” what comes to mind for me is a white knight that has been neutered by feminism though I am sure it means many different things to others. An example would be the husband of Jessica Valenti, queen of the sour puss author of “Full frontal retardism”. Another would be the long time live in Stooge of Amanda Marcotte, the feminist hamster magnified brain fart parading around in human form. For a man to claim either of these feminutcases as a significant other would most definitely require a white knight mangina of the fish smelliest caliber.

    Like

  16. Liz July 18, 2013 at 16:03 #

    That’s it, exactly!

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  17. SuperAwesomeGuy July 18, 2013 at 16:08 #

    wouldn’t a real “alpha” not give a damn if people thought he was alpha or not? damn…

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  18. SuperAwesomeGuy July 18, 2013 at 16:14 #

    again… what real alpha would give a flipping shit about what someone else thought. what real alpha would give a damn about what some random guy on the internet says. man i just love the “alpha myth” the reality is most people don’t know what the fuck is actually going on in the world and have no business giving advice.

    Like

  19. judgybitch July 18, 2013 at 16:16 #

    In general, I don’t think he does give a shit. The whole minivan thing…

    I think the fact that it’s his wife’s blog is what compelled Mr. JB to respond.

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  20. driversuz July 18, 2013 at 16:17 #

    A Wolf Alpha. Not just an earning machine, not just a fucking machine, not just a bossing machine. The whole package.

    Like

  21. Liz July 18, 2013 at 16:38 #

    SuperAwesomeGuy,
    99 percent of the people who call themselves Super Awesome would agree.

    Like

  22. freetofish July 18, 2013 at 17:00 #

    I find it quite interesting that the ones who had issues with the last post (and have popped in to this one to cheer lead) seemed to almost exclusively be the married women who frequent here. Like somehow they felt diminished or that their husbands were diminished by some silly labelling of Alpha or Beta.

    Which, in all honesty, make me think some of the comments were closer to the mark than they liked to admit. Me thinks thou dost protest to much……

    Mr.JB, I enjoyed your post and do agree with most of it. The thing is, yourself and giving the benefit of the doubt those husbands of the other women posting here, are not the `beta husband`most in the man-o-sphere talk about.

    Like

  23. Spaniard July 18, 2013 at 17:00 #

    They have this “Pat Bateman” model of alpha, which is very wrong.

    An Old Testament patriarch. That is sooooo cool.

    Like

  24. Spaniard July 18, 2013 at 17:05 #

    I think MGTOWs are alphas.
    Some o them they go too far with all the chastity stuff but, in general, I think they are right.
    The ancient model of a MGTOW were the”dog” philosophers in Old Greece.
    In some way too, the Primitive Christians, the ones wo went to build monasteries in the desert.

    Like

  25. Spaniard July 18, 2013 at 17:11 #

    “Contentamiento/contento” is a lovely word in my language.
    “Felicidad” use to have, at least in Spain, kind of “cursi” (kitsch) connotation. Like a marketing product..

    Like

  26. Bob Wallace July 18, 2013 at 17:19 #

    The concept of “Wolf Alpha” was given up a long time ago. The man who popularized, when he realized how it was being distorted, basically said, “That’s not what I meant.”

    There is no Wolf Alpha who bosses the others around. There is the Alpha Couple, who were the only ones who bred, to limit the number of puppies. Too many puppies, too many die.

    The Alpha Couple means one thing, and one thing only: parent wolves. Transfer that to people, and what you get is, among men…is a patriarch.

    Like

  27. laughingmime July 18, 2013 at 17:19 #

    if people let you lead, you’re at best a spokesman, at worst a figurehead and , quite possibly, a scapegoat

    from what JB wrote on this blog, I gather she doesn’t always make decision , but she has the power and right of ultimate veto
    case in point: calling the cops was for him to decide ; but scared woman didn’t trust and respect her husband , so she disregarded him entirely

    stuff that mr jb wrote that ‘alphas’ do , where I come from all men do that, guess it’s a nation of alphas

    I wish we could abandon whole alpha concept, it was messed up from the start, IIRC even the man who invented it dismissed it eventually

    Like

  28. Bob Wallace July 18, 2013 at 17:30 #

    People sometimes ask me, “What do you mean, the commonly accepted definition of an Alpha is really a narcissist?”

    Now I can answer, “Imagine someone who calls SuperAwesomeGuy and is in reality all bluster and mouth but instead is hollow and has nothing to back up his talk. Do you understand that.”

    And all of them will nod their heads and say, “Now I get it.”

    Like

  29. Liz July 18, 2013 at 17:52 #

    “Which, in all honesty, make me think some of the comments were closer to the mark than they liked to admit. Me thinks thou dost protest to much……”

    It’s actually pretty natural to react viscerally when someone insults the character of a person (or people, in this case it’s an entire group of individuals I find admirable) who is very valuable to you.

    (I get similarly het up about military issues, equally personal…perhaps I should stay away from the internet in general and political topics in particular, but my life is effected far more by the voting public than most so I can’t help but take an interest).

    Like

  30. SuperAwesomeGuy July 18, 2013 at 17:59 #

    wow nice. what person would call themselves SuperAwesomeGuy unless it was a joke. ad hominem a little.

    Like

  31. SuperAwesomeGuy July 18, 2013 at 18:09 #

    how long this post is kinda contradicts that.

    Like

  32. judgybitch July 18, 2013 at 18:12 #

    No, I really am his wife.

    No contradiction.

    But seriously, I’m pretty sure mine is the only blog he reads. And he only responded because its my blog.

    In general, he doesn’t care all that much.

    Like

  33. SuperAwesomeGuy July 18, 2013 at 18:33 #

    oh well, doesn’t matter much what I think. I just meant to say that your family is all that matters, it didn’t come out that way I guess. Your relationship is inspiring, it really is cool to see.

    Like

  34. Bob Wallace July 18, 2013 at 19:03 #

    I knew you’d answer. BTW, I have a minor in Philosophy with two classes in logic, and I’ve noticed the inept always get two fallacies wrong: strawman, ad hominem.

    I’ll give you a hint: if it’s true it’s not ad hominem.

    I’ll give you another hint: fallacies don’t invalidate the argument. It just means they’re not as clear as they should should.

    Glad to help you out with things, SuperAwesomeGuy.

    Like

  35. EMMA July 18, 2013 at 19:04 #

    That’s Mr. JB/Tim? I guess he does have “Grissom Hair”

    I really do hate the alpha/beta debate. Everyone has their own definition of what an alpha is.

    Like

  36. judgybitch July 18, 2013 at 19:07 #

    What makes you think his name is Tim?

    Like

  37. Keanu July 18, 2013 at 19:09 #

    What is the age gap between you two?

    Like

  38. Aye. July 18, 2013 at 19:11 #

    I am so glad my boyfriend doesn’t run around using a lot of mental energy worrying about how alpha he is or is not. He doesn’t swallow pills… Doesn’t matter what color.

    A good man does good things. A good woman also does good things. Simple as that.

    Mr. and Mrs. JB. I thoroughly enjoy your blog.

    Like

  39. judgybitch July 18, 2013 at 19:12 #

    Ha ha!

    Great question!

    Most people assume it’s about ten years.

    And I never contradict them.

    Like

  40. LostSailor July 18, 2013 at 19:13 #

    Unfortunately, the discussion gets side-tracked by emotional battles over the definitions of word like “alpha” and “beta,” which, in the manosphere, are highly context sensitive at best. As I tried to get across in the last thread, there are very few actual natural “Alphas”–those charismatic and charming narcissistic men who are risk-takers and naturally draw followers, men and women, into the orbits. And it’s a good thing, because while such men can often be productive, they can just as often be destructive, hardly the people to build and sustain a stable society. Most men more naturally fall into a classic “Beta” personalities, and, no, it’s not an insult.

    What I think Mr. JB is discussing here is what I think is better termed “traditional masculinity.” Which, in the context of marriage and family, necessarily calls for a mixture of “alpha” self-command and control and “beta” steadiness and self-sacrifice. Or what we used to think of as being a man.

    It’s today’s feminist society that has led to the image of the “beta-provider” being under the thumb of an empowered wife who controls all the strings (however true that is in many marriages) and therefore comes off here as being insulting. In days past being a “beta-provider” was generally consider the same as being a good husband and father.

    Like

  41. Keanu July 18, 2013 at 19:18 #

    well I guess you shouldn’t start now, then

    Like

  42. Aye. July 18, 2013 at 19:33 #

    Really!? I tend to view them as the petty, embarrassed fat kid, taking the ball and leaving the kickball field. They can’t hack it, so they don’t play and they think ill of those who do.

    I don’t discourage it, though, the going their own way… I don’t want one of those broken, self-righteous cowards to end up in my dating/mating pool.

    Like

  43. Bob Wallace July 18, 2013 at 19:42 #

    “charismatic and charming narcissistic”

    I’m going to say again there is nothing good about being a narcissist. They produce nothing; they only destroy. It is a recognized psychological disorder, and has been since the Greeks introduced the story of Narcissus.

    Narcissism is what the Greeks called Hubris, and it is followed by Nemesis. It’s the same thing as that saying in the Bible, “Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.”

    A narcissist is someone who despises himself, is extraordinarily sensitive to slights and insults to the extent they imagine them when they are not there, and covers it up with bluster – a big mouth with nothing to back it up. It’s why there exists the observation that all bullies are cowards – a devalued self covered up with a grandiose one.

    I will also say again there are a fair number who people who confuse confidence in yourself ( Fortitude and Perseverance – one of Four Cardinal Virtues) with the utterly self-centered and utterly insincere manipulations of the narcissist.

    Like

  44. EMMA July 18, 2013 at 19:50 #

    Because you said it was??? Maybe I read it wrong, but that’s what I remember reading.
    And you compared his hair to Grissom’s from CSI.

    Like

  45. Keanu July 18, 2013 at 20:02 #

    “…Chicago might be central enough…”

    I’m guessing you guys live in the rural land of lincoln? The midwest is a place where some people still share the ‘old fashioned’ views on the nuclear family, thankfully enough. Good post. Good read. Thanks MrJB

    Like

  46. LostSailor July 18, 2013 at 20:09 #

    I’m going to say again there is nothing good about being a narcissist. They produce nothing; they only destroy…A narcissist is someone who despises himself.

    Yeah. Right.

    As with most human traits, narcissism exits on a spectrum from full-blown psychosis to healthy self-regard. I suspect you fall somewhere toward the former end of that spectrum.

    Like

  47. judgybitch July 18, 2013 at 20:30 #

    I did compare his hair to Grissom’s!

    Except he has way more white. Or “grey” as he likes to say.

    It’s white!

    I think it’s hot.

    Like

  48. ImASexyBitch July 18, 2013 at 20:40 #

    It is kind of funny. 🙂

    Like

  49. GrimGhost July 18, 2013 at 20:44 #

    In other words, he’s a “true alpha” only if he regularly beats the crap out of JB and/or treats her like a child.

    Gotcha.

    Only trouble is, the prisons are full of those kinda guys, because they act that way around everyone else, not just their wives. I can’t see JB marrying a convict-to-be.

    Like

  50. feeriker July 18, 2013 at 20:47 #

    Nice to meet you, Mr. JB. Thanks!

    Like

  51. freetofish July 18, 2013 at 20:47 #

    No one insulted the character of anyone. As I mentioned, you perceived a slight to the character of your husband. That though, does not make it true.

    Like

  52. GrimGhost July 18, 2013 at 20:51 #

    Only trouble is, I picture “patriarchs” as having beards and walking with a staff. Your husband is clean-shaven and fit.

    Like

  53. freetofish July 18, 2013 at 20:53 #

    Wow, talk about shaming language. I don`t understand them, so they must be every derogatory, stereotype I can imagine.

    Funny, given the topic at hand, that any male who chooses not to subjugate himself by entering into a one sided contract with a women of such quality as yourself I`m sure….. is somehow the broken person……

    Like

  54. Alex July 18, 2013 at 21:26 #

    like i said, she stated in that particular post why it wouldn’t have been a good idea to let him handle the situation, and i believe she also says that he wouldn’t have been around for a couple hours so it doesn’t matter. how is a mother who utilizes local resources to make sure the right kind of punishment a “scared woman that didn’t trust or respect her husband”? i’m starting to think that you didn’t even read the post

    Like

  55. Liz July 18, 2013 at 21:34 #

    I will reiterate, I do not see how or why one cannot be a good husband and father as well as a charismatic leader.

    “In days past being a “beta-provider” was generally consider the same as being a good husband and father.”

    I seem to have missed the term “beta-provider” in the old episodes of Leave it To Beaver, Father knows best, and My Three Sons. You cannot seriously believe that the term ‘beta-provider’ is not belittling.

    Like

  56. SuperAwesomeGuy July 18, 2013 at 21:59 #

    i like fighting with feminists on failblog /laugh. so it’s great.

    Like

  57. Goober July 18, 2013 at 22:01 #

    Laughing Mime Said:
    troubling words, mr jb
    life is always about compromises? bullshit .
    Translation – I always get my way, all the time, every time. Fuck everybody else. I’ve never compromised with anyone, ever. Anyone else that has needs of their own can go fuck themselves, my entire life is about me, me, me, ME, ME, MEEEEE.
    if she were protestant , and you were catholic, how would you compromise on children’s religion?
    I don’t know, how about in the same way that every other mixed-religion household has done so since the dawn of man? Hopefully that isn’t that difficult a concept for you. I would imagine that anyone to whom it was that goddamned important wouldn’t have kids with someone from a different religion. Or, you know, compromise with their spouse. But I know you don’t do that…
    if she wanted school for them and you wanted to homeschool , what would you do?
    Try discussing it like rational adults and coming up with a solution that you can both live with – you know, compromise. It really is a useful tool. You should give it a try.
    she wrote on this blog about your daughter and rape threats … if it was all true , that means she betrayed you
    that’s because she didn’t wait for you to handle it, but ran off to cops and school principal
    if you don’t get it… those were OTHER MEN

    Translation: Bitches don’t be making decisions without asking me for permission first. Bitches don’t be asking other men for help when I’m gone. Botches don’t be asking other men for advice when I’m gone. Botches don’t be talking to other men at all. Hell, bitches best not be looking at other men without my permission.
    Such a lovely man – one wonders why you’re so unlucky in love? Just absolutely baffling to me…
    methinks the only one working on relationship is you
    get down from your high horse , you’re phony alpha – you lead because she lets you

    Uhhh, dipshit – ALL LEADERS LEAD BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE LEADING LET THEM LEAD. If you are leading anyone against their will, they have a word for that – it’s called slavery, and it’s been illegal in this country for over 150 years now. If you are truly desiring a situation where you get to lead the women in your life, not with their consent, not because they let you do so, but because they HAVE TO, there are places on Earth where you can get that. May I suggest Saudi Arabia?
    and she has nuclear option, and you both know it

    And what you cannot seem to comprehend is that just because a compliant family court system has given women the nuclear option, as you put it, does not mean that all women, or even a majority of them, are going to take it. Your failure to understand this is leading me to my next point…
    ‘ I am fortunate that she found me worthy of the life journey we are on together. ‘ jesus, this is pathetic , grow a pair

    So a man can’t be grateful for the woman in his life? You know, it is starting to sound like you’ve gone off the rails, just like feminism has, and gone from an “equal rights” stance to a “supremacy” stance. A man can’t ever give a woman what she wants; A man can’t ever compromise with a woman; A woman can’t ever talk to another man without her husband’s permission (or at very least ask one for help or advice without first clearing it through her husband); a man isn’t truly leading his woman unless she is being lead against her will – if she has any say in it at all then the man is a false leader; a woman has the option to destroy a man, and so she will invariably take it…

    Fuck around, do you even listen to yourself?

    Like

  58. Fred July 18, 2013 at 22:39 #

    It’s a category error.

    Most people accept: man + family = family man. Regrettably, it is not so.

    How it really is: Family man + family = family man w/ family.

    A family man without a family is a sad case.

    A self-centered man with a family is a fucking train wreck (you all know of an example).

    Alpha/beta has nothing to do with it.

    Family men and guys like me are very different. You can’t make one into the other.
    We think we control the path we take life but, I believe very little free will is involved. We do the shit we do because our disposition requires it of us. Mr. JB didn’t become a provider. He always was a provider.

    Like

  59. Goober July 18, 2013 at 22:46 #

    Mr. JB;

    Thanks for the kind words. I don’t think I have the solution to all of life’s woes, but I do take some pretty serious exception to guys who have admittedly made horrible choices in their lives, and had it backfire on them, trying to make it seem like none of it was their fault; that we are all on that chopping block and are just too stupid to know it, and that the only way for a “real man” to deal with every single woman is to treat her like shit; like a conquest or a video game with a set of cheat codes which, upon entering them in the correct order, will allow you to have your way with it.

    They say a true alpha is a man who realizes that all women in America today are garbage and should be treated as such. They’ve become a supremacist movement, and most of them don’t even realize it.

    I say that if that is the case, then I am proud to not be an alpha. I’m proud to be grateful for my wife and all she does for me (even if she’s not perfect). I’m proud that I compliment her daily and tell her that I love her, and that she does the same for me. I’m proud that my wife chooses to follow my lead, as opposed to being forced or coerced into it. I’m proud to be a provider for my family, and to be a good father to my kids. I’m proud that my wife fell in love with me for me, instead of some gamer’s cheat code, and is still with me because I haven’t changed who I was when I got tired of being someone else. I’m proud that I stand between my family and the slings and arrows of this world, and carry that burden for them. I’m proud that my wife is my partner and supporter and first officer, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I’m proud that I won’t allow the unfairness of our family legal system, and the fear of what it could do to me, decide for me how to live my life, and to modify my pursuit of happiness to appease those fears.

    If that makes me beta, then I have absolutely no use for whatever the fuck it is that they’re calling ‘alpha’ and being such should not be considered a compliment. As I said before, the prevailing definition of “alpha” seems to be “perpetually adolescent man-child who thinks that compromise is a dirty word and who’s entire life revolves around himself and his needs.” Unsurprisingly, that sounds exactly like the definition of “feminist”, too, only with the genders switched, of course.

    So, alphas, to me, are just the male equivalent of rabid, mouth-foaming feminists. Or, at least the prevailing, incorrect definition of alpha that folks use on this site and others.

    So if I were you, I’d accept the beta laurel with honor – you don’t want anything to do with the goddamned alphas, anyway.

    The title I prefer is “patriarch” anyway. Because that’s what I am, and that’s what I’m proud to be.

    Like

  60. judgybitch July 18, 2013 at 22:50 #

    You and my husband would be BFFs in about ten seconds.

    Project management?
    Married?
    Kids?
    Patriarch?

    Total BFFs.

    Like

  61. LostSailor July 18, 2013 at 23:00 #

    Liz, I never said those qualities were mutually exclusive; in most successful marriages they are not. Indeed, I explicitly wrote that marriage and family call for a that exact mixture.

    I seem to have missed the term “beta-provider” in the old episodes of Leave it To Beaver, Father knows best, and My Three Sons.

    If I recall, it was in season 2, episode 4 of “Beaver,” S4/E7 of “Father,” and the series finale of “My 3 Sons.”

    You cannot seriously believe that the term ‘beta-provider’ is not belittling.

    It’s descriptively accurate for many married fathers, not a judgment. It certainly shouldn’t be considered belittling since it was men like this that are a bedrock of society. That many here do consider it belittling is a symptom of how far our society has fallen in the feminist era.

    Like

  62. desperada57 July 18, 2013 at 23:29 #

    Thanks, Mr. JB! It’s good to hear from you.

    Like

  63. Goober July 18, 2013 at 23:30 #

    Commercial, industrial, and institutional construction project management… In other words, I take huge risks with huge sums of money, using massive big-boy toys to build stuff for people, and make a tiny margin of profit at the end of the day for my trouble. Then, I smile and go and do it all again.

    I’m 33 now and about as grey as your husband is… this is not a vocation for the timid or easily stressed…

    The question is, is Mr. JB an outdoorsman? I sort of took him for a bit of a city boy. Not that we wouldn’t still get along… City boys have their uses…

    Gotta go – wife and baby are headed to southern Idaho for the weekend to visit the in-laws, so I’m batchin’ it for the weekend. Going to spend the weekend sleeping on the boat and sockeye fishing… Just me and the dog…

    Like

  64. Goober July 18, 2013 at 23:34 #

    I like the way you put this. Well stated, and also bravo for understanding that each person has his or her own way in life, and the things that make people happy are not universally applicable to each individual.

    We could all have a little more of this in us.

    Like

  65. GrimGhost July 19, 2013 at 00:20 #

    Once upon a time in their marriage, Mr. JB was unemployed. JB was already “unemployed,” because she was a “mere housewife.”

    When the paychecks stopped, JB got a job at Starbucks, because she could get the job quickly and she didn’t mind the work.

    Let me point out something: This is true feminist equality, because the wife is sharing responsibility with her husband, not just privilege.

    But of course, feminists won’t see it that way. Feminists think that they’re all snowflakes, and so it should be the husband who gets a demeaning job, leaving the wife free to watch “The Price Is Right” and surf “Jezebel.”

    Good on you, JB! Not to mention that by _you_ taking the McJob, you were freeing up Mr. JB to send out resumes and go on interviews to get another high-paying job.

    Like

  66. Goober July 19, 2013 at 00:31 #

    There is a Heinlein quote that I love to throw about because it really does define the way that I want to live my life, and the person that i want to be. This is because in no small part, I like being valued by other people, and the only way to be valued by people who don’t love you is to provide something valuable for them, be it a sense of humor, a valuable skill, or some other useful thing. It goes a little something like this:

    A man should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

    Look at the things that he put into that list. The things in that list include caretaking, interpersonal relationships, vocational skills, teamwork, physical labor, and a myriad of other things that a person who wants to be valued should master.

    However, the person he described above would be considered to be a beta by most of the manosphere, or at least by the prevailing definition that seems to be in vogue right now.

    Heinlein, in one sentence, laid out exactly what society, for millenia, has said that a real man should be, and it is the exact opposite of what people like laughingmime would call “alpha”.

    Change a diaper? That’s some beta shit, bro…

    Write a sonnet? Give me a break.

    And I think, with that, that I’ve just narrowed it down to the essence of the thing – If you look at all of those things above, every single one of them is being done for the benefit of someone else (except giving orders, the one thing the as-defined “alphas” are good at). Unless you’re changing your own diaper, and you plan to eat the entire hog by yourself (in which case, having a diaper available may be a good idea).

    I’ve decided that the difference between an alpha and a beta, by the current, prevailing definition, is motive – by the prevailing definition, every single thing that an alpha does should have selfish motivation. If what you’re doing isn’t being done for you, and you alone, then what you’re doing is beta.

    It is a selfish, self-centered lifestyle that is being adopted by men who want to give their ways a patina of legitimacy, so they’ve co-opted the term to fit their needs. They’ve bent the definition so that men who fit the definition of what society used to consider to be the “real men” are now beta boys groveling at the feet of their harpy wives, and the men that society used to shun as useless cads are now called “alphas.”

    Use of the term in this way allows them to form an “in group” and make everyone outside of that group “the other.” None of this should be surprising, as we humans have been ridiculously good at doing this since we became a species. Also not surprising is the general tendency of these folks to describe everybody outside their group in very general and very extreme terms – women, for instance, are feral, selfish, shallow, and venal. They act shocked when I take exception to that. The man described by Heinlein above WOULD take exception to someone else calling his wife those things, though, wouldn’t he?

    I look at laughingmime’s response to Mr JB above for proof of this selfishness. Compromise? Bah! Beta shit, bro…

    Allowing – allowing – your wife to talk to other men and get advice from them without consulting you first? Mein Gott! Wie beta! (As if my wife is my chattel property who I grant permissions regarding to whom she may speak).

    So what does it mean to be beta? I’m 6′-4″ tall, can bench press 350 pounds, can hit a 12″ diameter target with my rifle at 989 yards, have never lost a fight, pilot a 400 horsepower jet boat through class 3 whitewater for fun on the weekends, build 30 million dollars worth of construction projects a year, catch and kill nearly half of the food that my family eats on a yearly basis, have a commercial driver’s license good for 101,500 pounds on the interstate, can operate nearly every piece of construction equipment known to man, can sharpen a knife sharp enough to comfortably shave with it, raced motocross for 5 years, can navigate the wilderness by dead reckoning, start a fire with rocks and sticks, have walked over the rockies and swam down the snake river, loved one woman with a passion most men will never understand, and am the father to some damn fine kids, among a few hundred other things.

    That, my friends, is beta.

    And what is alpha?

    By the definition they lay out, they can pick up chicks in bars and stuff.

    Like

  67. Bob Wallace July 19, 2013 at 00:52 #

    “As with most human traits, narcissism exits on a spectrum from full-blown psychosis to healthy self-regard. I suspect you fall somewhere toward the former end of that spectrum.”

    I am always amused when ignoramuses make fools of themselves by showing their ignorance.

    Heinz Kohut? Otto Kernberg? Who are they?

    Like

  68. Liz July 19, 2013 at 01:03 #

    Well, per your response below I have to ask…
    Does your objection of this “shaming language” indicate she has “hit closer to the mark than you’d like to admit”?
    Are you “protesting to much” here?

    Like

  69. ImASexyBitch July 19, 2013 at 11:09 #

    “That many here do consider it belittling is a symptom of how far our society has fallen in the feminist era.”

    How would you classify yourself? Should we call you Beta Dude as a compliment because only a feminist would consider this insulting? I’ve decided this is descriptively accurate, though I don’t know you, because sailors have classically been the bedrock of classic trade, important to society.

    Like

  70. Liz July 19, 2013 at 11:34 #

    I’m starting to think the alpha and beta titles should die. By fire.

    Jersey shore guy: “oh, so alpha, dude”.
    Sounds extremely gay (not that there’s anything wrong with that). But when the single guys in spandex at the gym with spray-on tans, checking each other out, are more likely to qualify as alpha than Patton (beta provider). Someone needs to check their assumptions. Talk about lowering the bar, can’t blame feminists for this one. I blame estrogen in the water.

    Like

  71. Spaniard July 19, 2013 at 11:53 #

    I think avoiding women at all is not healthy, at least you want to live like a monk, which, in other way, is not bad life.
    What I think is very alpha is… no needing women. Emotional independence. That is EXTREME alpha, Of course, women do not want men to be emotionally independent as… women are! That would be a truly disater… for women. It is starting to be.
    If you can be completely emotionally independent from women and managing the sex issue with hookers… that is absolutely great.
    I think that 100% MGTOWs are not in any dating pool. Friday and saturday nights they are at home enjoying their hobbys.

    Aye, you seem to be a tough girl. I love it.

    Like

  72. Spaniard July 19, 2013 at 13:11 #

    LOL!

    Agree 100%.

    Like

  73. Spaniard July 19, 2013 at 13:24 #

    Well, I am 1.88 m. (alpha), hunted rabbits, never hoggs (beta), shooted with Kalashnikov in Ucranian shooting clubs (alpha), never lifted weights (beta), never in a fight, thanks God (beta or alpha?), in case of danger cal the cops (beta?), 40s and single (omega or super alpha?), no chidren (omega or mega alpha?), go with hookers (omega), but expensive hookers (alpha), approach “normal” women a lot (alpha), 1% succesfully (omega),but never feel my ego harmed (alpha), hike near the mountains but not in the mountains (beta), decent job (beta)…. so?

    Like

  74. LostSailor July 19, 2013 at 15:01 #

    Don’t get angry. I’m just the messenger.

    Like

  75. LostSailor July 19, 2013 at 15:04 #

    You are indeed an amusement, Bobby, I’ll give you that. A little pathetic, but an amusement nonetheless…

    Like

  76. Cid July 19, 2013 at 15:21 #

    Reminds me of the work of Mark Simpson: http://www.marksimpson.com/metrosexy/

    A pretty good read actually!

    Like

  77. Exfernal July 19, 2013 at 16:35 #

    And lifestyle choices of younger generation could be explained here and here, even if not being entirely justifiable. Taking calculated risks is masculine, as long as the balance of the costs-benefits analysis seems favorable. Betting on outliers? That’s rather a domain of gambling addicts. No amount of shaming from either direction would turn the tide.

    Like

  78. Goober July 19, 2013 at 17:02 #

    Nice…

    Like

  79. Goober July 19, 2013 at 17:12 #

    Exactly Spaniard. You’re you, not some title heading created by men trying to categorize you so that they can either incorporate you into their “in” group or exclude you as “the other.”

    Like

  80. Michelle July 19, 2013 at 18:25 #

    AWWW!!! You are quite the lucky bitch, JB!! He reminds me a lot of my own Hubby, who never makes anything about HIM. 😉 i loved the memes he did. Too funny!!!

    Like

  81. 3legdog July 19, 2013 at 19:05 #

    I’m sorry, but this doesn’t work. Alpha doesn’t write a blog post defending his alpha-ness. But please keep the Mrs. JB posts coming. Love those… 🙂

    Like

  82. Liz July 19, 2013 at 19:39 #

    It’s the internet, Sailor! Spartan rules. 😉

    (or we could go with Naval tradition….rum, sodomy, the lash…)

    Like

  83. SuperAwesomeGuy July 20, 2013 at 01:28 #

    what does my screen name have to do with anything I said? Attacking me instead of the point what is that?

    Like

  84. Feminism Is A Lie July 20, 2013 at 08:29 #

    Defining men into alpha/beta has always annoyed me about the manosphere. It reminds me too much of feminists and social justice warriors attempts to basically categorise everything and not see people as actual complex individuals who go beyond black and white caricatures. I can understand why many men are giving up traditional roles and going their own way, defining their life by their own rules, but to assume that a married man who chose the provider role is not defining his own life how he wants to seems to play into the “men are idiots who are controlled by pussy” idea. If we want to see men as humans, perhaps it’s best to not categorise them as “real man” and “inferior” because isn’t that what feminism does and isn’t that what’s caused so much damage in society already? It’s not up to anyone but an individual to define who or what they are and no, providing for others does not make a man inferior. Outlining his view on the alpha/beta debate does not make Mr. JB a beta. You don’t get to define who or what someone is, I’m sure they can do the job well enough themselves if they want to.

    Like

  85. Radical Suburbanite July 21, 2013 at 02:50 #

    This! Exactly. My husband is the absolute patriarch of our household too.

    Like

  86. Luke July 21, 2013 at 08:08 #

    JB, I suspect you’ll find value in the following essay:
    http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/search/label/marriage

    It’s about men and women cooperating (or not) to get a project done, using each other’s very different strengths. It won’t make the feminazis happy, to be sure…

    Like

  87. Eric July 22, 2013 at 02:28 #

    There are different definitions of ‘alpha/beta’ for different contexts. I’m fine with the shorthand as long as the definitions are precise, or at least precise enough, for the discussion topic at hand. By and large, the leading voices (eg, Roissy/Heartiste and Rollo Tomassi) have done an adequate job of defining how they use their terminology and acknowledging their limits.

    Like

  88. Eric July 22, 2013 at 02:33 #

    For the most part, the objection isn’t to being a provider per se.

    It’s the sucker bet of being a provider under feminist rules, or worse, being a provider to a feminist under feminist rules.

    Like

  89. Eric July 22, 2013 at 02:39 #

    So, the ‘alpha’ game bloggers with many posts upholding or “defending” their definition of alpha aren’t actually alpha because they blog?

    Like

  90. Eric July 22, 2013 at 02:50 #

    “if people let you lead, you’re at best a spokesman, at worst a figurehead and , quite possibly, a scapegoat”

    You obviously haven’t served in the US military.

    Like

  91. Mik July 22, 2013 at 03:22 #

    This, is some good shit. A lot of life/marital advice given out here. Also, Mr JB does look like William Petersen.

    Like

  92. freetofish July 22, 2013 at 22:07 #

    Nope, just calling it like I see it. She, assuming here the poster was a she, obviously doesn’t understand the MGTOW movement, so she just jumps right into calling them the stereotypical names. Sad really, such a closed mind.

    Like

  93. driversuz July 25, 2013 at 03:57 #

    I never knew anyone had used it previously. It what I started calling my husband a while back. The Alpha wolf establishes his territory, claims his mate(s), leads, protects and feeds his pack, and raises his pups. And he does it with authority, but in cooperation with the other members of his pack.

    Like

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. Mr. JudgyBitch speaks | A Voice for Men - July 30, 2013

    […] note: Janet Bloomfield (aka JudgyBitch, or JB) originally published this article on her own blog on 18 July 2013, although as you will see, most of the writing is from her loving […]

    Like

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