SOME IMAGES ARE A BIT RACY – POSSIBLY NSFW
Following Suzanne Moore’s excellent and very informative article for men on how to manage their penises, published in the Guardian, I thought I would do all the ladies a favor and offer some suggestions on how to manage their vaginas.
This is Suzanne, by the way.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/07/10-rules-managing-penis-sexting-wine-toaster
Let’s recap Suzanne’s article quickly. The very definition of delightful, no?
How to Manage Your Penis
1. Don’t take pictures of your penis and don’t share them
2. Wash your filthy penis, please
3. Do not use small appliances on your penis
4. Do not urinate in public. Gross!
5. Don’t forget not to rape anybody with your penis
6. Do not name your penis
7. Do not share your penis with other men
8. Do not decorate your penis
9. Do not attempt to change the natural shape of your penis
10. Do not mistake your penis for your brain
Excellent advice, Suzanne. You really have a handle on the psychology of the average male. The love just shines through! A rainbow of affection for a dreary day!
How unfair of you to leave the ladies out, though. Surely, some vagina love is in order, to complement this Ode to LoveRockets?
Let me help you out. Here are Ten Rules to Manage Your Vagina.
1. Don’t take pictures of your vagina and don’t share them
And if you plan to ignore this excellent advice, try to find out whether the recipient of your largess would care to see your vagina in the first place. Don’t be this girl, sexting members of her high school lacrosse team, who didn’t particularly care to go visually spelunking through the lady cave of their friend, and had her, oops! Expelled!
http://jezebel.com/girl-sends-sext-gets-kicked-out-of-school-lacrosse-pl-471285308
See? Bad things can happen if you sext your muffin to guys who have already had lunch, thanks.
Never worry, though. You have Feminists™ to come to your defence and wonder why the BOYS didn’t get expelled for failing to worship the Kodak Yoni.
Ha ha! Silly vagina owner. Not everyone wants to see it. Keep in it your Calvin Kleins.
Oh, oops. My bad. She only sent pictures of her boobies. No naughtybit shots. Well, let’s try this one, then. Let’s try all of these!
http://jezebel.com/5057511/revenge-porn-hard-to-prosecute-harder-on-the-psyche
You see, ladies, when you take explicit pictures of your naked body and send them to people, they are no longer your private property, and if you happen to go full bore cunt on the lucky recipient, plan on seeing your bits plastered far and wide on the internet.
Oh, boo hoo. You want to shame, humiliate, mock, deride and snicker at MEN who have made the mistake of sharing their XXX camera roll, but when it happens to YOU, that’s a felony?
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/07/criminalizing_revenge_porn/
Bullshit.
Pot, let me introduce you to kettle.
There is one surefire way for BOTH men and women to ensure they are not publicly exposed by their own selfies – don’t take them. If you can’t abide that, then accept you are taking a risk. YOU took the shot! YOU pressed send.
And you will face whatever consequences there are as a result of YOUR own decisions. Welcome to being a grown-up.
2. Wash your filthy vagina, please
Sweaty, bloody, occasionally yeasty, and dripping wet when aroused – ladies, please take some steps to keep your vagina clean. You know, a daily shower should do it. A bit of hygiene after a loo run.
You know, Suzanne, this is just gross. Any attempt to make genitals seem dirty and filthy by the simple act of being genitals reeks of some pretty serious psychological disturbance, to me. There is even a name for it – a bunch of names, actually.
Phallophobia is the abnormal and persistent fear of a penis, especially if it’s erect. Those who suffer from this phobia are afraid to look at or touch a penis. This even includes pictures of penises. Phallophobia is similar to Medorthophobia, the fear of an erect penis and Ithyphallophobia, the fear of seeing, thinking about or having an erect penis.
A phobia is a strong, persistent fear of situations, objects, activities or persons. The main symptom is an excessive and unreasonable desire to avoid the feared subject. Other phobia symptoms include shortness of breath, irregular heartbeat, sweating, nausea, and an overall feeling of dread. Phobias are the most common form of anxiety disorders.
http://constantfear.blogspot.ca/2013/06/phallophobia-fear-of-penis.html#.UgOqYdKR-So
Now, spiders I can understand. Spiders are terrible. Really, really awful.
But penises?
I really think you need to look into whatever is causing you to believe male genitals are dirty, Suzanne. It’s kind of not very normal.
3. Do not use small appliances on your vagina
Especially not any of these small appliances!
Holy Joy Nazi! Welcome to Suzanne’s world. The Mayor of NoFunsVille herself. I think Suzanne should begin an immediate program of applying a LOT of small appliances to her vagina. Okay, technically, not her vagina. But let’s not get fussed. It’s in the ballpark. She’ll figure it out. She might feel a lot better, too.
4. Do not urinate in public. Gross!
Nuff said.
5. Don’t forget not to rape anybody with your vagina
And while you’re at it, try to remember not to accuse people of raping you with their penis when that isn’t true. It’s a very nasty thing to do. And after you do it, oh, eleven times or so, you might even go to jail. I guess the message is that ONE or TWO accusations is okay, but don’t get carried away with it.
Now, now. Don’t get hysterical. I’m not saying NO false accusations. Moderation, ladies! Just a little restraint.
6. Do not name your vagina
Enough with the “Ladybits” and “Pandora’s Box” and “Honeypot” nonsense. Vagina. There is nothing wrong with the word vagina. Needing to name your “Midnight Garden” is just immature and off-putting.
http://jezebel.com/5927490/honeypot-flaps-twat-nicknaming-a-vagina-is-tricky-business
Grow up fellow “Yorkshire Pudding” owners!
7. Do not share your vagina with other women
Uhm, I don’t even know what to do with this one. Throw in homophobia as a bit of satire? For what purpose? To highlight the fact that Suzanne’s entire article is a steaming pile of hateful bile?
Well, okay. I personally don’t care who you issue entrance passes to, but we can play along.
No dykes! No sharing your vagina with other women!
8. Do not decorate your vagina
No grooming! And vajazzling? Forget it. No piercing, tattooing or accessorizing.
9. Do not attempt to change the natural shape of your vagina
Obviously, actual mutilation during childhood is utterly forbidden. For vaginas. Penises we don’t care much about. Mutilating baby boys is okie-dokie, but once that initial butchery is done, never, ever try any other enhancements.
Ladies, stop doing those Kegels this instant. Nobody cares about a tight vagina anyways. And no post-birth reconstructive surgeries, either. No rejuvenations! Fourth degree tearing during a particularly tough labor? Too bad!
10. Do not mistake your vagina for your brain
This will be the tough one. Stop thinking with your crotches, ladies. There is more to life than cultivating your LadyGarden. More to your existence than ploughing the fields and planting seeds. Of course, if you forgo planting, you will probably starve, but that’s neither here nor there.
Ladies, you need to think with your heads, not your ovaries! Just think where we could be as a human species if more women focused on their education and careers and contributions than on the occupational status of their wombs.
More Barista of Arts, summa cum latte!
http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/whatsitworth-complete.pdf
More secretaries!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/01/top-job-for-women-secretary-same-as-1950_n_2599560.html
More elderly women alone with no one to care for them!
http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/single-childless-and-downright-terrified/?_r=0
More of everything we need, no?
In a way, Suzanne’s article is very instructive. The denigration of men and their filthy, rapey minds and penises used to be rather subtle. A little unpacking was in order. That is no longer true. If you look at the comments at the Guardian, even average readers seem to be able to detect the scent of desperation. The rhetoric against men is escalating because the fog is slowly lifting.
How much longer will the Guardian, and other news sources be able to get away with this campaign? Yesterday’s discussion was kind of interesting. Is critiquing Cathy Young fair? Does she have a legitimate complaint that the rhetoric of those who speak out in favor of human rights for everyone is just a bit too aggressive, crass, brash, antagonistic?
Maybe?
Complaining about dirty penises in a national newspaper hardly fits the bill for polite, civil conversation, if you ask me.
Maybe we are a bit crass. A bit belligerent. A bit over the top. So what?
We were told our campaign wasn’t sufficiently slick. We regard that as a compliment.
Margaret Thatcher
Fuck all the slick campaigns. Dirty fights are dirty.
And there’s nothing wrong with getting a little dirty now and then.
Lots of love,
JB
judgybitch 
You never know, JB. Suzanne Moore looks as though she might actually have a penis.
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I hope it’s clean!
😛
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Cracked dot com did an article on the 4 unhealthy mentalities that turned into internet movements and MGTOW made the list.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-unhealthy-mentalities-internet-turned-into-movements/
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“1. Don’t take pictures of your penis and don’t share them ”
I wonder if she would give that same advice (using your reversal of don’t take pics of your vag and share them) to this girl?
http://www.today.com/id/29546030/ns/today-parenting_and_family/t/her-teen-committed-suicide-over-sexting/
See, it’s actually sound advice.. but would she dare give that advice to girls?
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Also, do not write an episodic play about your vagina.. should be added to the list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vagina_Monologues
That’s one hell of a narcissistic complex for a sex organ. Talk about vanity.
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Fantastic riposte to a particularly nasty piece of male-baiting JB, and a comprehensive answer to all those who think we should talk nice and “tone it down”.
Suzanne Moore has been shitting on men in high-profile media for years. I don’t recall a single article from any prominent feminist in the MSM in all that time telling *her* to “tone it down”, so why the hell should we?
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I actually have reservations about MGTOW for their attitudes toward women, but I don’t think they should be lumped in with “drunk driving advocates”.
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One of the stupider acts of that exercise in stupidity is the story of statutory rape by an older lesbian. One line, since excised, takes the cake: “If it was rape, it was good rape.”
No Just No!
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What unhealthy attitude? They’re not attacking women or getting involved. Quite the contrary, they’re simply saying “I’m out, I’ve got better things to do with my life”. My experience is that people who criticize MGTOW are simply afraid that if too many men take that path, they will lose precious labor and protection.
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From the MGTOW site:
“… as a man I will not surrender my will to the social expectations of women and society, because both have become hostile against masculinity.”
They say “women” and not “feminists”. Are they using them interchangeably? Maybe I’m misunderstanding this, but it sounds like there is hostility misplaced here. I can understand why that is, but it doesn’t make it right.
The quote used in that cracked article makes me cringe, as well.
“Women’s only appeal is in their sexuality, other than that they have nothing to offer.”
Although that may very well be the article’s author mining for quotes.
Don’t get me wrong – if guys want to detach from their societal obligations, then more power to them. I support them in that, and believe that if women are being released from their gender roles then men should be as well.
Maybe I’m getting hung up on semantics. I don’t know MGTOW very well, so my reservations could be coming from ignorance.
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No, it should read women. You can claim NAWAL, but women, in general, just as society, in general, have become hostile against masculinity. The handful of women who don’t can’t negate that fact. Remember that, as a woman, the only thing preventing you from screwing over a man is your conscience, don’t be surprised if some men are cautious.
As for the second quote, it does indeed sound harsh and is an exaggeration, but think of it like this: in the age of outsourced services like food preparation, cleaning, gardening, what can a woman offer a man beyond sexuality? Before anyone screams something about objectification, sexuality also includes sexual companionship, i.e. having someone be the target of your romantic emotions. But that’s it, for everything else, men can either do it themselves or pay someone to do it for them. This is the objective truth, not an insult or attack, though I’m sure more often than not, it is expressed with justified anger.
MGTOW is simply the designation given to men who are neither interested in practicing game to get the upper hand in their relationship with women, nor hoping to go with the flow. They understand the rules but don’t want to play the game.
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JB, thanks for writing this. It would be nice if the Manchester Guardian printed it. From a business standpoint, it would spur the increase in circulation by promoting controversy.
One thought, how deep does this sentiment go? Obviously, Suzanne Moore is post-menopausal. It could go pretty deep in her age group.
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Dammit, smartphone. This is supposed to be stuck up there with the post about The Vagina Monologues.
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That photo of her…[shivers]…how in God’s name does a scrunt like that even get published?
Why doesn’t she just wear a sign saying “I HAVE NO CHANCE TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH A MAN SO I WILL HATE THEM ALL”?
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Nah, you only need a few rules.
1. Do not share your vagina with every man who wants it.
2. Do not pierce, tattoo, cut, or otherwise alter the natural appearance of your vagina or any part thereof.
3. Do not take selfies of your vagina.
4. Do not use euphemisms when referring to your vagina.
5. Wash that vagina, please.
6. Do not expect to be treated as if your vagina is gold plated or velvet lined. It’s not.
7. Do not expect to be treated as if your vagina is all that different from most other vaginas. It’s not.
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what the hell is vajazzling? sounds like the dumbest idea ever to come about after sticking one’s head in a jet turbine just before ignition
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You can go to the link. The author has some pretty damning qoutes there from the MGTOW forums.
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“I actually have reservations about MGTOW for their attitudes toward women, but I don’t think they should be lumped in with “drunk driving advocates”.
MGTOW is more akin to alleged “gang stalking victims”, which the site also lists as paranoid whack jobs.
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MGTOW is more akin to the paranoid gang stalking victim “movement”. Also listed amongst the 4.
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Another woman who wants to dictate to me the disposition of MY penis. Ms Moore can keep her prying eyes and filthy, perverted mind away from me thankyou very much. The woman is a degenerate and a pervert.
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There is nothing worse than hearing Oprah talk about her vajayjay. Just…ick….
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It seems a lot like the selfish little bitches trying to tell men to ‘man up’.
Tell you what, when you grow a penis, you can tell me what to do with mine.
err… nevermind that, I am pretty sure that 99% of all feminists are trying to grow one.
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The main misunderstand of MGTOW is that it’s an effect, not a “cause”. Most MGTOWs were rejected by women in general as the hypergamy dial was cranked up to 11 starting in the 1980’s. The rest of us just looked at what happened to our peers who did get married and between getting destroyed by divorce, or the wife gaining 200 lbs, decided that was not how we wanted to end up.
I had never even heard the term MGTOW until last year, but have pretty much been one all my life. The internet gives guys like me the sense that there’s a movement due to how the internet can bring people with different interests together in a way that can seem like a movement, but is really an effect.
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I love girls urinating in public while drunk, I love dirty vaginas (too much soap is a turn off), I love piercing in the vaginas and tatoos… I love British women!
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Now it seems, that the word “feminism” is in disgrace in USA. 70% of the females call themselves “antifemnist”. It just quite new phenomena. Probably the Manosphere effect.
In afew months, in Europe will be the same. I am just waiting for it. For the very first article in the Fench edition of Cosmo about: “Putain de feminisme! vive la feminitude!” Or something like that.
Ok, smells rotten here…
“Feminist”, “feminism”… are just wag the dog.
The problem is not feminists or feminism. The problem is WOMEN. We should never forfet it.
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That is actually good. They think that MGTOW is about fearing female sexuality and promiscuity. Like if MGTOWS were new freudians or something like that.
It is anot at all about that, and we know it. It is just about NOT marrying, no procreating, having sex with whores, keeping your money for you, traveling, go to live to extremely cheap countries with LOTS of women, like Georgia, and having company from a dog.
And they are going to fight with all their strenth against that. First , they have to take prostitution and ban it, like in Sweden. Without that target, they are lost. They fear the “competency” so much. So, I guess a lot of “john shaming” for the next months.
Next, they will go for the dogs. They have to ban the dogs.
Then, they will encouare “paternal instincts” in men. And we will have a lot of “childfree men shaming”.
Then, they will classified Georgia like a country of the “Axis of Evil”.
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Women are totally released from their gender roles in Western Countrys.
The problem is that women DON’T want to be released from their gender roles, because, at the end of the day (aka, once they hit early 30s) they DO want to marry and have children (aka, they need the human ATM machine with penis and nice attitude)
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Forget.
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That’s because there is a metric fuckton of hate and misogyny in the mgtow movement. Not all, but a lot of them, are very vocal, very hateful men that do more damage to the cause than they are helping. They are the male equivalent of radfems and are just as screwed up.
Listen to them.
ALL women, not just some, are feral selfish venal and evil.
Any thinking mgtow would find a way to disassociate with these knobs because the entire movement is subject to ridicule as a result if them.
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Men Going THEIR OWN Way. It’s not monolithic. While a few self proclaimed MGTOW foolishly attempt to dictate the terms of the concept – qualifications, exclusions,etc – those few are missing the entire point, which is independence and freedom. “Rules for MGTOW” is an oxymoron;
To go one’s own way is to choose ones own consequences, and act accordingly. It is not to evade all consequences of any sort, it is to avoid specific probable consequences by not taking the actions that can/will lead to those consequences.
Beyond that, it’s ridiculous to pigeonhole MGTOW. They cannot be pegged as a bunch of woman-haters, anarchists, Aspies, hedonists, hermits, or anything else. They are simply men who apply cost/benefit analyses to their options, and live according to the benefits they want and the costs they are willing to pay for those benefits.
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Check this out yall. . Really sad . . http://www.daddys-sverige.com/3/post/2011/03/the-truth-about-swedish-feminism-do-not-watch-this-film.html
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Judgybitch,
I really must take exception to your rule #1 above. If pretty women would like to send pictures of their boobies and vaginas to me, I will not complain. 😀
In all seriousness, why does she protest about guys naming their penis? Oh, that’s right. She’s a feminist. Most guys name their dicks something with a punchline attached, and feminists do not have a sense of humor. (“What’s yours named”? “Vlad” “Why Vlad?” “Because it’s ‘The Impaler’ “)
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http://www.daddys-sverige.com/3/post/2011/03/the-truth-about-swedish-feminism-do-not-watch-this-film.html
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Lol.
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Not all women. But 95% of them, yes.
It is said in the Bible: A good woman, who will find her? (Proverbs 31, 10)
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Don’t forget the bachelor tax.
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Comparing the radfems to MGTOW is like comparing the WBC to the Amish, and shows a profound ignorance of the dynamics. The former want to change society to their liking, while the latter want to dissociate themselves from it and be left alone. Why do you care what they think? Could it be that you have a lot to loose if enough men choose to MGTOW, and you are terrified at the prospect? You should know by now that shaming won’t work.
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If it’s a movement at all, then has it any collective goals to aspire to? “Going one’s own way” does not require any specific affiliation (may it be to a political orientation, forum membership or any other possible one). For me it’s more like the cultivation of a peculiar state of mind – freedom from the usual human ingroup dynamics. Well, I can only speak for myself.
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Botched [em][/em] tags – I have intended to put only collective in italics.
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Which reminds me of this work modelling spontaneous emergence of an ingroup/outgroup bias. A rather abstract exercise in game theory.
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“what the hell is vajazzling?”
Like many things in your culture, such as anal sex, this is something that first appeared in porn and now is making its way into the mainstream.
Its basically decorating a shaven or waxed vagina (also a porn trend) with stick on glittery decorations.
I guess there are some people out there who find that “hot”.
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“Not all women. But 95% of them, yes.
It is said in the Bible”
Quoting fiction now are we?
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“Now it seems, that the word “feminism” is in disgrace in USA. 70% of the females call themselves “antifemnist”. It just quite new phenomena. Probably the Manosphere effect.”
The Manosphere is recent and insignificant. American women have been disassociating from Feminism for decades already.
I was surprised to find this out myself, many years ago.
I still struggle to understand it because those same who claim “I’m not a Feminist” always follow with a “but”….
See here;
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/06/im_not_a_feminist_but/
and here;
http://blueeyescurlyqs.blogspot.com/2011/11/womens-wednesday-of-course-im-feminist.html
Basically they, and probably everyone on this blog, are in fact, “feminists”.
I don’t see why if they are “butting” about any of the above, they are hesitant to use the F word.
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I’m not a feminist, but…
I appreciate the right to help choose my government representatives.
I enjoy the option of wearing pants or shorts if I want.
I’m pleased that I was allowed to learn to read and write.
It can be very convenient to control how many babies I want to have.
It’s awfully useful to be able to open a bank account and own property in my name.
I like knowing that my husband or boyfriend cannot legally beat me.
It’s really swell to keep the money that I earn.
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Yes. That is “old school feminism”. Agree with that.
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Well that IS Feminism, dear.
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[I posted this with 2 links of examples but it got stuck in mod so here it is without links.]
“Now it seems, that the word “feminism” is in disgrace in USA. 70% of the females call themselves “antifemnist”. It just quite new phenomena. Probably the Manosphere effect.”
The Manosphere is recent and insignificant. American women have been disassociating from Feminism for decades already.
I was surprised to find this out myself, many years ago.
I still struggle to understand it because those same who claim “I’m not a Feminist” always follow with a “but”….
I don’t see why if they are “butting” about any of the above, they are hesitant to use the F word.
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This is so obviously a troll and many people jump at the transparent attempt to hijack the thread. Please don’t feed trolls!
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“while the latter want to dissociate themselves from it and be left alone. ”
When you have a sociopathic sense of entitleement to men, their labor and their bodies, MGTOW is a threat. When you are hopelessly accustomed to your privielge, equlaity fesl liek misogyny
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No one is buying that lie any more, dear.
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“I like knowing that my husband or boyfriend cannot legally beat
me.”
How typical of feminists to claim credit for laws that were on the books and enforced for centuries. But then feminism is just a lobe of the patriarchal order anyway. Always running back up into Daddy’s lap anytime some man is insufficiently servile and adoring.
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I’m not a feminist, but…
I appreciate the right to help choose my government representatives…but not all men had the vote Man Woman Myth has a great video about the franchise. Shows men going over the top during WW1 and observes that two thirds of the guys you see getting shot didn’t have the vote either (funny never saw any women there).
I enjoy the option of wearing pants or shorts if I want
…me too. Don’t want to wear a skirt as I don’t have the legs for it 🙂
I’m pleased that I was allowed to learn to read and write
…at the same time as my brother. Think about it this way did my working class Dad who left school at 14 have more chance of going to university than his bank managers daughter. Silly me my Dad was working class and couldn’t open a bank account. That was why he was paid in cash in a ‘paypacket’ Addressed further down too
It can be very convenient to control how many babies I want to have…oh if only men had this option too. My 26 year old son has just left home for the first time and I had to bring him up as his mother was an arsehole…his description of her.
It’s awfully useful to be able to open a bank account and own property in my name
…where previously the husband opened the bank account for the family and had to suffer the consequences of a spendthrift wife. Men used to go to jail if there wives did not meet their own personal debts. Source is UHM quoted below
I like knowing that my husband or boyfriend cannot legally beat me
…even although this was always against the law. Read about treatment of wife beaters in the past at Unknown History of Misandry blog about the guy being lynched in the US as a persistent offender.
It’s really swell to keep the money that I earn.
… and not have to contribute to the household expenses coz what is mine is mine and I needz it for shoes and handbags and makeup and clothes.
Ho hum … same misdirection and misquoting historical fact. Sorry Face take back that you are, in fact, a feminist.
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I’m not a feminist, but…
I appreciate the right to help choose my government representatives… even though I don’t have to give me life to defend my country for this right.
I enjoy the option of wearing pants or shorts if I want… even though I like to shame the other gender for wearing dresses and skirts.
I’m pleased that I was allowed to learn to read and write… and in fact, that the education system is biased in my favor so I have better grades, exclusive scholarships and am not being put on drugs for displaying normal behavior for my gender.
It can be very convenient to control how many babies I want to have… and make men pay for them.
It’s awfully useful to be able to open a bank account and own property in my name… so that I get to take what my ex-husband spent a lifetime acquiring when I decide to divorce him.
I like knowing that my husband or boyfriend cannot legally beat me… I on the other hand can beat and even kill him and escape any kind of punishment.
It’s really swell to keep the money that I earn… when my ex has his wages garnished of alimony and child support.
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Zykos … nice one, different country, sentiment same.
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When I read the “10 things not to do with your Johnson list” (paraphrasing) I thought you were posting a satirical list of your own. Imagine the hilarity when I realised the list was posted verbatim. Unreal…
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I’ve got nothing to lose. I’ve got a shotgun a rifle and a four wheel drive and this country boy can survive.
And stop with calling anyopinion that you disagree with “shaming language. ” not only is it not true (I’m not shaming you, I honestly don’t give a fuck if you take your ball and go home, or if you hate women or if you’re a misogynist ass) but it makes you sound all whiny.
Mgtow is a fine sentiment for those whom it fits. I support the decision to do whatever makes you happy. Chase whatever dream you think will fulfill you, with my blessing.
Just understand that the hatred of all women inside your movement is coming from your bubble and your blindness to reality, not the truth, nor the actual conditions on the ground. You’re deluded if you think that half of the human race is as abjectly horrible as you pretend they are.
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Yes. Just dismiss any opinion you disagree with as a troll so you don’t have to actually consider it as valid. Intellectually sound logic…
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Yup. Good old “recently invented by porn industry” anal.
Not widely practiced in ancient greece at all. Totally a recent idea.
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“MGTOW is simply the designation given to men who are neither interested in practicing game to get the upper hand in their relationship with women, nor hoping to go with the flow. They understand the rules but don’t want to play the game.”
I that description, I’ve bee a MGTOW all my life. But I don’t believe that women are hostile toward masculinity. Society, sure. But you can’t claim that an entire society is hostile while also specifying a group within that society as also hostile. It’s redundant, and it could indeed be misinterpreted as contempt for women. And given the things MTOWs say about women, I don’t think that’s a misinterpretation.
And if it is a misinterpretation, then you would be forced to claim that Not All MGTOWS Are Like That, no?
“… men can either do it themselves or pay someone to do it for them.”
And women can’t? Couldn’t the exact opposite be said and still be objective truth?
And trust me, I won’t grill you on objectification, even if you were to mean only that. The notion that objection is inherently wrong bothers me a lot.
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Wow, that first sentence should read, “By that description, I’ve been a MGTOW all my life.” Oops. :p
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“Why do you care what they think?”
How much overlap is there MGTOW and MRA? Are people not familiar with Men’s Rights confusing the two? Is this why people think that the MRM is inherently misogynistic?
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m asking these questions because I think that MRAs bring up good points. I wouldn’t be here otherwise. But anger and resentment towards women on the part of MGTOW is not a good point, it’s not positive in any way, and it does not make for
Putting all women in the role of the enemy to rebel against sounds an awful lot like what feminism does with men. I understand that is not the intention of MGTOW, and I also understand that MGTOW does not, at present, advocate for anything on their own. But if MGTOW is negatively impacting the MRM in any way, if there is significant overlap, then that’s why I care.
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“… and it does not make for intelligent, constructive discussion”, is what that should have said. I’m really not good at this today.
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This is more or less where I’m at on the MGTOW topic right now.
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How much overlap is there MGTOW and MRA? I don’t know about people, but we can talk about where these things fall in place. A lot of people seem to think that the MRM is somehow an opposite movement to feminism. That’s, in my opinion, not true and very confusing. Feminism is primarily an ideology, i.e. a set of beliefs (the core one is that women were and still are exploited by men), and these beliefs then influence the particular mindset, work and decisions of its adherents. There seems to be no male correspondent to it, I’ve never heard anyone claim men were oppressed, at least not unilaterally. You could maybe claim that “anti-feminism” is an ideology that posits women were not oppressed, and that would be the closest thing to an opposite ideology.
Then you have the MRM, which is a *movement*, i.e. a group of people who work towards some goals. In this case, it’s legal and social justice for men. MRAs can come from very different ideologies, they can be egalitarian or traditionalists, but very rarely you’d find a feminist MRA (the only logical combination would be a feminist who believes women were oppressed but that the pendulum has swung the other way). The female opposite would be Women’s Rights advocacy, for example suffragettes.
Finally, you get the MGTOW, which is not an organized group, simply a term for a lifestyle. You could be a hermit, you could be a vagrant, you could be a socialite or you could be an MGHOW. It’s actually a very broad term, as the name implies (*their own way*, i.e. the way each individual prefers), so grouping them is only useful to describe a social phenomenon. They are not an organized entity, they do not share a core sets of beliefs (only perhaps that they’ve been screwed) and they don’t particularly care for what anyone thinks of them.
In summary: (anti-)feminism – ideology (like a religion); W/MRA – movement (like a political party); MGTOW – lifestyle. They are linked but touch mostly on different aspects of life so one does not imply the other, just like you can be a muslim leftist stoner or a buddhist conservative globetrotter. Any “MGTOW manifesto” you come across should be treated the same way as a homeless manifesto or a PUA manifesto: fundamentally incapable of representing the group as a whole.
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Check my other response, but in essence:
“I’ve bee a MGTOW all my life” – entirely possible, but I don’t know you
“And given the things MTOWs say about women” – same thing as saying “given what snowboarders say about skiers”.
“you would be forced to claim that Not All MGTOWS Are Like That, no?” – that’s exactly what I’m claiming, thanks for paying attention.
“And women can’t? Couldn’t the exact opposite be said and still be objective truth?” – absolutely, and they’ve been saying so since the 70s
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So you are all for men’s rights, and the livelihood of men, yet you positively quote Thatcher? I can tell you don’t live in Britain where she robbed many working class MEN of the present and future potential to be providers for their families. She was a huge part of what created the ‘chav’ culture you see today in Britain where men turn to destructive means to fill their time because so many cannot find work. This harpie destroyed British industry and widened the gap between social classes. Look up the miners strikes in Wales. Is this a case of ‘I’m alright Jack’ or lack of historical knowledge about this wicked witch?
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Just… stop. That’s egalitarianism. And of course it has nothing in common with THE ACTUAL AIMS AND PRACTICE of contemporary, first world feminism.
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