Something tells me I could be in for a lot of hate mail over today’s post, but oh well, what the hell, let’s dive in anyways! Unlike other Morons Among Us ™, I am not all that terrified of loudmouth internet vigilantes.
http://judgybitch.com/2013/07/29/policing-twitter-is-dumb/
I am having a rather fascinating Twitter conversation with a man named Eivind Berge about whether or not it is possible for a woman to rape a man under any circumstances.
From his blog:
https://twitter.com/NataliyaKS/status/370939453511966720
When a boy gets lucky with an older woman such as a teacher, quit insisting he was “raped” or “abused,” because sexual abuse is not what is going on here. Forcing these relationships into a framework of “rape” or “sexual abuse” designed for women only serves to showcase your lack of intelligence and ignorance of human sexuality. It is also not needed in order to proscribe such behavior if you really believe it needs to be a criminal matter. You can punish the woman (or both) for fornication and/or adultery if you insist on being so sex-hostile. No victimology is needed! No denying the boy got lucky and ludicrously attempting to define him as a “victim.” No sucking up to the feminists and no display of extreme imbecility on your part.
Feminist sex abuse is so arbitrarily defined that if you are blindfolded and transported to a random jurisdiction where you meet a nubile young woman, you would have to consult the wise feminists in the local legislature before knowing if you can feel attracted to her without being an abuser (or even a “pedophile” if you are utterly brainwashed). And if you see a romantic couple, you similarly cannot know if the younger one is being “raped” without consulting the feminists you admire so much.
http://eivindberge.blogspot.no/2013/01/beware-of-sex-negative-mras.html
In our Twitter conversation, Eivind makes some interesting observations. First, laws have never been designed or enacted to protect men from female rapists. Is that because the law has been blind for thousands of years, or because female rapists are not really a thing that men need to be protected from? Laws have been pretty shit when it comes to protecting people from slavery, but that doesn’t mean slavery doesn’t happen and isn’t devastating.
Men are absolutely protected from MALE rapists by various laws and prohibitions and sanctions against sodomy. In fact, part of that makes instant sense to me. Sodomy laws are not designed to stigmatize or punish homosexual men engaging in consensual sex. They are designed to give men a tool to punish other men for NON-consensual sex. They may have EVOLVED into weapons to wield against gay men, but I doubt they started that way.
Historians know of less than ten executions for sodomy throughout the seventeenth century. Of those few, almost all involved assault or sex with animals. These laws were not directed in any particular way toward homosexuality. Indeed, they couldn’t be — the idea that there was a type of person who was a homosexual didn’t even emerge until the late nineteenth century, a result of urbanization, industrialization and the development of medical/sexological discourse. But while these laws weren’t about discouraging homosexuality per se, their architects sought to regulate sexual behavior more generally by steering sexuality toward procreative marriage; protecting women, children and weaker men from assault; and maintaining public order and decency.
http://www.alternet.org/story/99092/the_strange_history_of_sodomy_laws
Secondly, even the very wealthy never identified female rapists as any particular danger to their very valuable sons. And of course, I don’t mean inherently, intrinsically valuable. The sons of the wealthy are the custodians and guardians of the family’s wealth – that is what gives them value. And obviously, family’s went to great lengths to protect both the sons and the family legacy.
Female rapists were no threat to either.
And how times change. Current laws about what constitutes family and legacy have shifted the power to women, and they most certainly can and DO threaten family legacies by the act of bearing offspring and claiming a portion of the family wealth for themselves and the resulting children.
Professional athletes can find their wealth quickly depleted by entrepreneurial ladies with aching ovaries and empty bank accounts.
Although there have been no studies on athletes and their out-of-wedlock kids, those who are familiar with the issue say the numbers are staggering. “I’d say that there might be more kids out of wedlock than there are players in the NBA,” estimates one of the league’s top agents, who says he spends more time dealing with paternity claims than he does negotiating contracts.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1012762/
And it’s not just rich men who can have their wealth depleted. ALL men are subject to the laws of redistribution, supposedly in the “child’s best interests”. No man can escape his paternal responsibilities without becoming a criminal himself.
Women, of course, can disavow their own parental obligations either by aborting the child before it is born, surrendering it to an adoptive couple who assume all responsibilities and obligations, or surrendering the child to the state, who will then arrange for adoptive parents to assume legal custody.
All of sudden, women now have an incentive to rape men that is BACKED UP BY LAW. I would love to talk right now about all the OTHER incentives women have to coerce potentially unwilling men into sex, but I have yet to crack the spine on this fascinating book, so my understanding of how an average woman’s desire works is rudimentary at best, and largely based on my own experience.
I will redress the oversight soon enough.
For now, let’s just focus on the legal, financial incentives women have to coerce men into sex. I’m using the word “coerce” deliberately, because that seems to be the direction the rape conversation is going, and I can see quite clearly that the sword is sharp on both sides, as swords tend to be.
Following is a woman arguing that infidelity is a form of sexual assault!
Of course, she means MEN cheating on women. If a man forces a woman to have sex against her will, that’s rape. If a man has 100% consensual sex with a woman but fails to inform her he also had sex with another woman, that’s also rape. Rape is staggering towards a definition in which any sex a woman deems as rape IS rape as long as she thinks it is. And if you didn’t tell her about your little piece of ass on the side, you COERCED her by omission and that, sir, is rape!
If someone were to ask William, even now, if I would have consented to sex with him had I known the truth [he was cheating], his answer would be an unequivocal, “No.” He knew it then, just as he knows it now: He was having sex with me against my will.
People lie all the time. There is no law against it. But lying becomes criminal when it is used to coerce others into sexual acts.
On the one hand, you probably want to smack your head against a wall with the frustration of it all. On the other hand…. if COERCING someone to have sex is rape, then what happens to all the baby mamas collecting child support from rich men they fucked once?
I wonder what Liam Gallagher would make of that?
Or Simon Cowell?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/showbiz/419558/Simon-Cowell-s-63million-pledge-to-support-his-baby
Or Francois Henri-Pinault?
In the past, which is what Eivind is talking about, the ladies in these cases would have had no incentive to get knocked up with the rich man’s baby. All the incentive was directed towards MARRYING the rich man. That was the ONLY way to secure the man’s wealth.
In actual fact, marriage continues to be the very best way to build and transmit wealth, and the very rich damn well know that. It seems as if the aristocracy is an immutable fact of the human condition, and all the laws in the world can’t prevent parents from wanting the best for their children.
http://www.businessinsider.com/nepotism-chart-2013-8
You know what CAN fuck up these families and their wealth? When their sons knock up some chick and she takes a chunk for child support. Repeat one or two times and good bye wealth.
Now the rich DO need to protect their sons from predatory women.
So let’s get back to the idea of rape. I have never been raped. Well, under the legal definition, I most certainly have been raped, many, many times. I don’t drive, but I’m pretty sure that three glasses of wine would put me over the legal limit.
And I have definitely had sex after three glasses of wine. Meaning I cannot consent. Meaning I was raped. I usually call that “Friday”. And to be fair, I have also been a rapist many, many times. I have aggressively and consciously had sex with a man who has had way too many beers after his Ducks Unlimited planning meetings, which take place every week. I’m pretty sure they could accomplish all the planning in two meeting a year, but they meet weekly to test the local beer supply.
Just in case.
Gotta protect ALL the wetlands!
I’m making a joke here very deliberately. We can all guffaw at the idea that me having sex with my husband while either of us meets the legal criteria for “drunk” is rape. What nonsense. What Eivind is asking us to do is consider whether the sex can EVER be truly traumatic?
I’ll paraphrase here, and I might even have this wrong, but I think Eivind says sex for women CAN be traumatic, but sex for men simply CAN’T be. I can’t tell who wrote this, but Eivind appears to agree that trauma is largely a social construction, for both men and women.
Anonymous said…
“The notion about women being traumatized is a construction. Granted there are genuine sex-crimes, and in that respect one has every right to feel traumatized. But a lot of it is pure bullshit. I feel no empathy with a woman claiming to be traumatized because a man touched her or looked at her intensely. In that regard, a woman should be punished just as hard for doing the same thing against a man. Or the laws themselves should be revoked. ”
Eivind Berge said…
Yes, much of what feminists call “abuse” is a construction. Age of consent, for instance, is a legal fiction, and of course evolution did not make females either who are traumatized by sex up to some arbitrary age. Only a gullible fool can buy into such nonsense.
I can easily see how rape-rape, real rape, could be 100% traumatizing for women. I can also how it could be 100% traumatizing for men, but there is one key difference, perhaps owing simply to my lack of imagination.
It is not hard to imagine how, when and under what circumstances a woman could find herself in a “dragged under a bush by her hair and raped” scenario. In fact, it terrifies most sensible women to the point that they don’t deliberately put themselves in that position!
Other women, not so much. Deserted part of a park surrounded by bushes at 5AM after a night at the bar? Hmm. What could go wrong?
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/river_park_rape_hell_AKCusAH2pGJrXBhazTwciP
I have a hard time imagining a “dragged into the bushes and raped” scenario for men, though. If the other rapist is a MAN, or a group of men, well, yes. I can see that.
But by a woman?
Am I the only one who finds this hard to imagine? I can’t find a case of it reported anywhere. Nor can I find men for whom this scenario lives in their imaginations with the capacity to TERRIFY them.
Most of the accounts of male rape do not involve anything like brute force. It’s mostly a combination of the man being incapacitated by alcohol or coercion that the man doesn’t resist for any number of reasons.
Are the men traumatized by these experiences? Some say yes. I simply cannot bring myself to claim that men ARE NOT and CANNOT be traumatized by unwanted sex. Nothing about that makes sense.
Here is what DOES make sense: most cases where “rape” is a matter of coercion or being incapacitated by too much tequila, NEITHER men nor woman are particularly traumatized. When I read reports of women who ended up suicidal and depressed and weeping and slobbering and totally destroyed by what sounds like nothing more than bad sex to me, it reminds me of a toddler working herself up into an epic, screaming tantrum.
True story: I have three children, all with very different personalities, and the number of screaming, face down, flailing on the floor wailing and sobbing and pounding tantrums my children have EVER thrown is ZERO.
Not once. Not one of them. Not ever.
Why not? It’s not allowed. Parents act like “that’s just how kids are” and it is complete and utter bullshit. I intervene long before anyone gets so worked up and upset they start screaming, and I do NOT step back and simply let an emotional tsunami build up and then crash across our whole family.
No way.
I remember giving my three year old son a speech at Walmart once, when he started to cry and was growing increasingly upset because he dropped his gumball and it rolled under a cashier’s desk and we couldn’t get it. I would totally have let him eat the gumball off the floor in Walmart. Might have rubbed it off on my shirt first, but yes, I would have let him eat it.
I’m paraphrasing here, but my kids have heard this speech many times, on all different occasions and always for the purpose of shutting down a tantrum. And it always works.
“Honey, I am sorry you dropped your gumball. I know you are angry and sad and mad and it’s absolutely fine for you to feel those things. It is NOT okay for you to force everyone else to listen to your problems. You are not allowed to scream and cry and bother other people. If you need to cry, go ahead, but do it quietly. Or save your cry for later. You can’t control how you FEEL, but you can control how you ACT, and you will do so. Self-control. There is nothing wrong with it, and you will learn it. Starting right now.”
I remember this day in particular, because all the other moms gave me death looks of hate and loathing, and two older men sitting on the bench across, waiting for their wives, started to applaud.
And then they gave LittleDude a new quarter and took him down to get a new gumball.
Yes, we live in awesome town, and I did not give one second’s thought to two old gentlemen walking off with my son. They were getting a gumball. And teaching my son that men help each other and they don’t act like spoiled assholes when bad things happen.
So, the moral of that story is that if you let someone who is a little bit upset carry on, they will eventually work themselves up into hysterics over something that really isn’t that big of a deal to begin with.
Maybe I’m a heartless fucking bitch, but that is exactly what I think happens with women who claim date-rape (not rape-rape) RUINED THEIR LIVES.
I spent most of my spring semester an emotional wreck. I saw his face everywhere I went. I heard his voice mocking me in my own head. I imagined new rapists hiding behind every shower curtain and potted plant. I bandaged the situation by throwing myself into more work and by resolutely refusing to acknowledge that I was anything but well adjusted.
How are you supposed to forget the worst night of your life?
I didn’t know what to do any more. For four months I continued wandering around campus, distancing from my friends, and going to counseling center.
Three hours after sitting curled up and terrified on a hospital bed I was admitted into the Psychiatric Ward for depression and suicidal thoughts.
OH MY GOD! What happened to this woman? It must have been terrifying! Horrifying! The worst thing imaginable!
She had sex with a guy in his dorm room with people audible on the other side of the door.
Some nights I can still hear the sounds of his roommates on the other side of the door, unknowingly talking and joking as I was held down; it is far from a pleasant wakeup call.
Oh fuck off. Seriously. That is all I can think of when I read shit like this. Fuck off, you stupid little shrieky snot-faced toddler. Have some self-control. A little inner strength. Stop working yourself up into hysterics. Keep calm and carry on. And stop going into dorm rooms with men you don’t plan on fucking.
No one is really traumatized by this, unless they choose to be. Are men LESS likely than women to be “traumatized” by this variation on “rape”? My guess is yes. I don’t question that women coerce men into sex men don’t really want all the time. Women have incentive and the law to make that in their own bests interests, given the right circumstances. Are men suicidal and utterly devastated afterwards?
Maybe, if “rape” results in 18+ years of child support with a woman you would rather not see ever again in your life. Maybe, if “rape” means you just lost a huge chunk of your family’s wealth. Maybe, if the thought of not being a meaningful, present figure in your child’s life enters your calculus.
But devastated just by the sex itself? Imagining other rapists everywhere?
Not likely.
Correct me if I’m wrong here, guys. I really want to know your thoughts. I really don’t know what I think yet.
I proposed the following thought experiment to my husband, and his response surprised me at first. But now that I think about it, I guess it’s not that surprising at all.
Something bad is going to happen to me. You can’t choose “none of the above”. Which one will you choose?
A. A man attacks me and cuts my face open with a knife
B. A man attacks me and breaks my arm
C. A man attacks me and rapes me but does not otherwise hurt me
He picked B.
I picked C.
Obviously, I would prefer NONE. But something that doesn’t really hurt me, and only falls under the category of physically repellant is far better in my mind than having a broken bone or my flesh cut open with a blade. I know what being beaten feels like. I know how long the pain lingers. I have had bones broken before. And I know how pain can terrify.
My choice would be to avoid pain.
Maybe I’m underestimating how much being raped would hurt, but I don’t think so. Being raped is not the worst thing I can imagine. Not by a long shot.
And all those women “afraid to speak out in case he gets violent”?
They are making the exact same choice.
Unwanted sex is way better than a beating.
I would want to punish the man who did it to me. Oh, absolutely. I doubt very much I would use the law to do that. I don’t think a police report would be my husband’s first choice, either.
But if the laws against rape can be used against women, to punish them for consequences women can avoid, but men cannot, why shouldn’t men jump on the rape bandwagon? Why not start pressing charges against women? Why not claim all the same trauma? Even if it isn’t true.
Can lies ever be used to justify lies?
Do they? I’m not so sure.
Lots of love,
JB
judgybitch 
The thing I see lots of people overlook is that if a woman feels so destroyed over such minor things as the people next to her hearing her fuck….why the fuck are we spending so much money getting more women into politics and positions to power when they are clearly encouraged to act like kids.
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Related:
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Yep, and I haven’t even read the whole thing yet, but if I get the gist…
I’m turning 53 in a few months and there are a few teachers who still occupy the occasional fantasies when the college girls get boring and overused. 🙂
I adore women, and most particularly, the mind space occupation they have afforded me over many decades, since I got what my hardon was all about. It’s luscious, and if you have a mind, you can go anywhere and nobody gets hurt.
Now & then, you get a willing.
…I’ll never forget the first 36-yr-old divorcee in San Diego, when I was 23….
Guys are built differently. Or not, and it’s pretend and victim for convenience. Not sure. That’s why I check with JB.
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The problem with this whole rape ‘dilemma’ is the same every time JB, and that is, where do you draw the line?
As you so often and so accurately point out. the Feminists claim that the woman’s perception is all that matters. Not her behavior, not her attitude, not nature, not his side of the story, and definitely not proof. Just her perception, and =boom= you’re a sex offender.
What happens then, if you’re a guy, and a woman is giving you ‘signals?’ And as all us guys know, women speak ‘hint.’ They just expect you to know what they mean by what they say & do by magic, mind reading, or intuitively, as if we were women. Again, the Feminists want to have it be, that even if she stripped naked, laid down in front of you, and took both hands and pointed them towards her coochie, if she changes her mind about that AT ANY POINT, you are now a rapist.
This definition as we all know also includes girls that put themselves in situations where the likelihood of rape is increased. Still not her fault. Never her fault.
So…again…how can one prove internal emotional trauma? What is the objective measure of trauma and it’s impact? What’s the difference between natural shame, like Miss Blow Blow at the Eminem concert is now feeling, and actual damage to the psyche from a sex act?
See what I mean? There are no lines, internally or externally, so the Feminists just say, “well whatever she says.” My response to that is always the Duke Rape case, and the scores of men that have spent years in jail accused of something they didn’t do.
And. Again. It only counts when it’s women. Men have no feelings.
We need lines. And women who engage in ‘come hither’ behaviors need to sign a waiver before they leave the house or something.
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Been raped by an ex (I was sick, she wanted sex, I didn’t, told her no, went to sleep… woke up to midnight sex – she apologized for -waking me up-, of all things). Not destroyed by it. Annoyed, maybe. She got an earful the next day. (No interest in prosecuting her. I am pretty sure she learned her lesson.)
But given that I’m male, and presuming it’s a situation where I was interested in a judicial response, I think I’d take the knife one, depending on whether or not I get a cool scar and a story out of the deal, or a broken arm maybe. I might stand a chance of getting treated reasonably by our legal system for those.
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I see things that way:
I think of it this way.
For evolutionary reasons, men care less about being coersed into sex with women, than women care about being coersed into sex with men. And here I mean both rape-rape, and “rape”. A woman is very negatively affected by real rape, a man is less likely to be.
In the past, a man being forced into sex by a woman loses not more than a few minutes of his time. A raped woman risked losing her time and energy to having the rapist’s baby, whose genes are not those she would otherwise pick. So there is no reason for a man to develop a special fear/negative reaction of that, but women have.
However, there is a catch, or three.
1)Both sexes react negatively to things that affected them the same in the evolutionary past. Being kidnapped might mean you are about to be killed –> fear/trauma. Being threatened with violence might mean the same –> fear/trauma. So, a man forced by a woman into sex will experience fear and trauma because of all the non-sexual causes.
2)Rape is not a “fate worse than death” even for a woman, although she reacts so negatively to it for a real biological reason. Even in the past, giving birth to the rapist’s baby was still a way to reproduce, although suboptimally and made life harder (other men with better genes/provisions would not like her, maybe her mate would withdraw his care, etc.)
3)Some men do react to this the same way women do. Why?
Same reason there are some women who hate sex or babies. If most women hated babies, we’d die out. They’d throw the babies out in the cold the moment they were born. Yet there are some women who hate sex or babies in existence today. They are called “the childfree”, and are freaked out by the thought of pregnancy itself.
I think I can guess why rich men never feared their sons might be raped by a girl. Because this female-on-male rape issue was never a men’s issue. It was a special group issue, something that only affects a portion of people. Same way early feminism was an issue for ambitious women who wanted male power, while most women didn’t.
So, what to do now? I think I understand both you, and Eivind Berge. Like me, you can’t just ignore those guys who are traumatized by women forcing them into sex. But like Eivind Berge, I realize we can’t rearrange the world to fit the outliers. They should be allowed to make their own life choices and not be attacked for them, but how much more should be done for them?
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Oops, stupid repetition in the start. Ignore that.
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At least here in Norway, our legal system takes men accusing women of rape extremely seriously. Your self-pitying excuse for not reporting won’t fly here. In fact, the conviction rate for such accusations is 100% so far. It has happened exactly once in Norwegian history, in 2004, that a man has accused a woman of rape, and she was duly convicted by our feminist system, which treated the case as a Godsend to prove with great fanfare how gender-equal we are. What the woman actually did was initiate fellatio on a sleeping man and this was convicted as rape, just like a man would be if the genders were reversed, under our feminist-reformed rape law.
Since 2004, more than ten thousand women have accused men of rape, and not one man has accused a woman, despite our legal system being so forthcoming. Everyone pays lip service to equality and “knows” women can rape men, yet when it comes down to it, men do not feel the need to go to the police if they are sexually coerced by a woman. You yourself say you felt “annoyed” rather than traumatized by your “rape” experience. Now tell my why we should take some mythical outliers so seriously we should pretend women “raping” men is really so serious it deserves the same punishment? Could it be that women “raping” men is one big charade which does not deserve to be put in the same category at all? How can you simultaneously claim it was no big deal yet you want the option of extreme punishment? Does it make sense to claim the definition of rape needs to be so ridiculously broad just so maybe one man per decade can have justice, while meanwhile thousands of men are accused and jailed on similarly flimsy pretexts? This seems to be what some manginas in the sex-negative men’s movement literally believe.
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My cousin worked as a rape counselor. She once told me that she had treated boys raped by women and that their emotional problems were pretty similar to the girls. It was cases of actual coercion, and the principle problem for both the boys and girls was the distress they felt from losing control of their bodies, having their free will taken away.
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I was driving to work just before dawn this week. I live in suburban territory and there are a few parks that are basically still thick forest. A jogging track goes through one of these forests and pops out to be visible from the street for a little bit before it dives back into the forest. I spot a woman jogger. She’s wearing far less than your average jogger. tight black spandex shorts and a black bra, nothing else. almost a bikini. You could swim in it.
And I had this thought: If rape were the overwhelmingly terrifying thing women keep telling me it is, WTF was this woman doing? It’s 5:00 AM and she’s trotting (not running) through a forest in a swimsuit.
Even I wouldn’t have been jogging in that forest at that time of day. Maybe I’m just far too protective of my bunghole.
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Well, chicks dig scars on men, even facial scars have been judged as appealing to women in psychological testing. Not so for big facial scars on women. Something like that could ruin you life and seriously impact earning potential in workforce and mate potential. My husband loves me, but he loves looking at my face too and I imagine it would never be the same if I was disfigured. But I’d take the broken arm or broken leg before the violation.
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Small glimmer of hope: that Feministe article is a migraine-inducer, as so many of them are. But for once a good chunk of the commenters see the absurdity, and danger, of trying to “criminalize” caddish behavior; one correctly noting that everyone lies about trying to get laid at least once, therefore we’d all be in jail.
(Why read this stuff and give myself migraines? To see what that crowd is thinking; sometimes the lulz is amazing. Also I am a bad person and I deserve punishment.)
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I was asked previous if I’d rather be raped or falsely accused of rape. I had to think hard about the question because it depended on how far the false accusation went. If it resulted in prison or was it just some public embarrassment like Shermer’s case. It came down to the fact that being publicly accused of rape can ruin your life forever. Whereas I’ve been assaulted (not raped but pretty severely beaten) before and got over it pretty well.
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So you’d like my opinion on what it means to be raped, as a man?
My buddy blacked out drunk, once, at a frat party, and woke up next to a girl he’d never seen before. He was totally passed out, and she’d had drunken sex with him while he was passed out (by her own admission). She later used that as a coercive tool to try to establish a relationship with him and control him – she was basically a stalker, and from what I’ve been told, this wasn’t the first time this particular individual had done such a thing. The guys in that frat house had a name for her that included the word “crazy” but I don’t remember what it was.
By every standard set out in every state in our union, he was raped. Period. No argument to be had.
His reaction, other than to regret the situation, was sort of a “Meh. Doesn’t matter – had sex.” The extent of his regret was similar to what mine would have been in the same situation: he was more upset at himself for putting himself in that situation than he was at the woman for taking advantage of it.
He learned his lesson and moved on.
Had the tables been turned, he might still be in prison.
So I think that for the most part, guys don’t consider things that women consider to be rape, to be rape (when it happens to them, I mean). Generally speaking, a man being raped by a woman has to assist in the process. The whole “grabbed by your hair and dragged into the bushes” isn’t really something we have to worry about. If a guy gets “raped” by the current legal definition, then it’s because he got blacked out drunk or was coerced in some way, and generally speaking, in both of those cases, we tend to put the blame on ourselves for allowing ourselves to be in that state, more than we would the woman for taking advantage of it. I think part of it is ego – men don’t like to consider themselves victims. We are far more likely to shrug some victimization off as having been a case of being a dumbass and deserving it, then we are to cry about victimization. I think the rest of it is just common sense – how can you blame a stranger for not valuing you as a human, when, well… THEY DON’T. How can you expect them to treat you with respect when you haven’t treated yourself with respect (blacked out drunk in public, much?) .
Rapists gonna rape. You can’t trust them not to. You are in a lot better place in life when you assume that every stranger is a person that you cannot trust, and live your life accordingly (which means never losing control or giving up agency around strangers, in any way whatsoever). As a man, if I choose to do so, I am to blame for the consequences – not the people who acted exactly how you expect them to act when they are given an opportunity to take advantage of you.
That’s just how it is.
A married man wakes up next to a stranger after a night of too much drinking and he says “OMG, I just cheated on my wife!!!”
A married woman wakes up after a night of too much drinking, next to a stranger, and she says “OMG I got raped!!!”
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But you can’t base the punishment for the crime on how badly the victim feels about it. That’s totally subjective.
Based on that standard, you could have guys doing time for after-the-fact regrets than guys who truly did the whole “grab her by her hair and rag her intot he bushes” thing, depending on the victim.
Maybe I’m losing something in translation, but that sounds to me like that’s the argument you’re trying to make – base the punishment on how bad the victim feels about the crime.
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I read this, more than just skimming, less than fully reading every single sentence and parsing it.
You seem to ignore an older women or relative preying on a younger boy.
See http://toysoldier.wordpress.com/ and you might find how your imagination could change.
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I’m not saying one view is right and one is wrong. But I do see the problem with basing our judgment on whether something is right or wrong, and how hard we should punish an act, based solely on the opinion of the victim.
In the example above, taken to an extreme hypothetical, if my wife woke up next to a man she didn’t know after a night of hard drinking, her reaction would be to be horrified that she’d cheated on me. Some other woman might consider it rape. The guy in question would either walk free with no consequences, or would go to prison for rape and have his life destroyed, based solely on the opinion of the woman that he thought he was having consensual sex with the night before.
The way to prosecute rape is to consider intent – if it was a mistake, it wasn’t rape. If there was bad intent, it was. And that requires one more step, and that step is for the victim – you have to make it clear that you are not into what is happening. If you are unable to resist, it is rape. If you are able to resist, YOU MUST RESIST, or else it is not rape. How else can you possibly expect your ‘rapist” to even know he’s raping you?
I just had a funny story told to me the other day. My buddy went over to a co-workers house. The co-worker’s new girlfriend was there. She wouldn’t look at my buddy or talk to him. Buddy thought it was weird, but didn’t think much about it.
Later, his co-worker confided in him that she had told him that she’d had a one-night stand with my buddy about 7 years ago, after getting drunk at a night club in Delta, BC. My buddy remembered her then – she’d woken up next to him in the hotel room, seen him, screamed loudly, grabbed her clothes and ran out of the building. At the time, it had seemed really kind of funny to him (my buddy is a total cad).
Now that she knows how to contact him, and who he is, will she press charges for rape? She could…
And my buddy did nothing wrong. Not one thing. The encounter was totally consensual. They were both drunk. Regret does not equal rape. If you’re into it at the time, I don’t care how much you regret it, or were traumatized by it later – you weren’t raped.
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Of course justice can’t be based on how a given individual feels about something — but it can and should be based on how a *reasonable* person feels about it. The “reasonable man standard” is a well-known legal concept, and a reasonable man does not feel very traumatized by female sexual coercion. Therefore the law has never paid any attention to the concept until feminists decided the sexes are equal and now try to foist on us equal reactions to sexual coercion by the opposite sex as well, which is not experienced equally in the real world. All I am saying is women raping men is a laughable concept to the average man, and therefore the law should not take it seriously either, even if once in a blue moon you manage to dig up some hypersensitive outlier who is very traumatized by it. Women simply do not deserve many years in prison for an offense which consensus among men says is trivial at worst, and more commonly enviable.
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Judgy Bitch if you were the one who said people shouldn’t go into rooms of men they don’t plan to fuck it’s a pretty strict and unnecessary rule. Many people go into dorm rooms to hang esp if they’re exploring college. Reeks of the “men always want sex” stereotype. Reminds me of elevatorgate..that man clearly wanted sex despite the fact that he said no (not).
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Well right now it’s not rape, but it’s getting closer. I would not be surprised to see laws start coming down that equate a certain a blood alcohol content to the ability to consent. It’s what the vocal feminists want. To always be expanding what is considered rape. Remember, there are many who see any hetrosexual sex as rape.
It’s a tool used to perpetuate the “rape culture”. If rape was even remotely defined as it was in the past, even if you included date/spousal rape the figures wouldn’t be nearly enough to garner the massive tax dollars they get.
We are almost at the point right now where as you mentioned the only thing that matters is how the woman “feels” about any sexual situation. When it’s happening, after it happened and years later. It is seen almost universally to be unconscionable to even question a “victim’s” story now. Any disbelief or further questioning on what happened is shouted down as “victim blaming”.
JB, I think you are tilting at windmills on this topic. The rape conversation has been 100% set by Feminist Inc, just like the domestic violence conversation has. I really don’t think there is any way to change that now. That horse has left the barn.
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oh and on your man forcibly sexually assaulted by women
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/07/four-women-wanted-in-alleged-sex-assault-of-19-year-old-man-in-downtown-toronto/
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What artist painted that picture of the knight and lady? It’s lovely and I’ve never seen it before.
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There is a paradox of people reacting more strongly to threats the safer they are, and it does seem the “rape” women are are worried about is more like botched foreplay. Running through a forest naked is obviously safe, but they want be able to be able to drink heavily and go home with strangers every weekend without any complications
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Better to hop onto a guy’s bed expecting sex, and not get it, than the reverse. Yes, girls hang out with guys “exploring” because 99% of them (not all, mind you, some college girls are strict necrophiliacs) are cock teases.
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Rape at its core definition, is a violent felony perpetrated against another person. Being dragged into the woods, back alley, thrown into a ditch and violated at gun point/knife point and left bruised, bleeding and sometimes dead that used to define many criminal rapes. A rapist felon is looking for victims of opportunity and could give a shit less what anyone is wearing, about stupid shitty propaganda posters, about feminist idiocy, or how many times the victim cries no. But of course we have those lovely feminists who have reengineered a vicious crime into another weapon in their arsenal of cock control as well as another way to dodge responsibility/accountability for their own actions. Can a man be raped? Absolutely just as a woman can also rape another woman and I have yet to see anything from the feminist cock police addressing male on male rape, female on female rape, females raping men, or grown women raping children. Yes it happens but those cases are not acknowledged or are denied by feminism because it does not further their rape culture cause. In fact many ideas of feminist regarding taking common sense safety measures are doing nothing more than setting many women up for a criminal target. A violent felon does not give a half bucket of horseshit about your enthusiastic consent or your slut walks (or as I like to call them feminist Halloween), if you’re wearing a burlap sack or a wicked weasel bikini wedged up your ass crack with your tits popping out. I advocate self-defense, I have taught it in the past. I have years of hand to hand combat training and spent several years of my life serving in the 101st airborne division. If I had a daughter I would teach her everything I know, in the event she were attacked she would not go down a helpless victim if I could help it and I would not give a damn what any feminut thought of it. Crime prevention is common sense and I, like many other men and women alike that seem to be ever growing in numbers, am sick beyond measure of feminism and its social experimental bullshit. Feminists want to define rape as they please yet some of them have advocated running over boys with cars and throwing them out of windows (research the Agent Orange files) so I guess child murder is ok by their twisted standards.
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A married man wakes up next to a stranger after a night of too much drinking and he says “OMG, I just cheated on my wife!!!”
A married woman wakes up after a night of too much drinking, next to a stranger, and she says “OMG I got raped!!!”
^^^^
THIS
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If a woman is sexually assaulted she has two choices:
1) She can avail herself of rape counseling, crisis centers, or any one of feminist-endorsed options to ensure that it becomes The Worst Thing In Her Life And She Will Never Get Over It, or;
2) be justifiably shaken and upset for a while but move forward with her life as usual.
Any woman choosing option 2 will rapidly be accused of being in denial, a rape-enabler, etc.
I simply refuse to believe that a man can ruin my life with his dick. That’s just about the most patriarchal, sexist, misogynist thing on earth, and feminists somehow fail to notice that.
If you allow your rapist to affect you that deeply, he has achieved his goal. I wouldn’t give him that satisfaction.
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IF :
A: Rape is such a horrible crime that victims end up horribly depressed and incapable of functioning normally afterwards.
AND
B: One out of four women have been raped (as feminist say)
THEN
C: One out of four women must be nuts.
OR
D: One or both of these statements are false.
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Yes,Sasha,it’s too bad there aren’t more women with your attitude.
Too many “victims” of regret sex want to play the sheroic victim that our feminist society not only expects but demands of them.
I think this was the main point of the post: trauma for many is constructed.
One of the things religious conservatives and feminists agree on: male sexuality is VERY BAD and extremely destructive. I was taught in “bible” class that the serpent in the garden that “seduced” the woman into eating the apple was a phallic symbol and so clearly Jesus hates penises because penises make women eat apples God told them not to eat…or something like that.
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I don’t want the option of extreme punishment. The extremity of the punishment is, indeed, the reason I have no interest in prosecuting. In what universe is the appropriate response to a few minutes of lost autonomy to take away the perpetrator’s autonomy for years if not decades?
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Goober wrote: “I do see the problem with basing our judgment on whether something is right or wrong, and how hard we should punish an act, based solely on the opinion of the victim.”
Yes indeed. In criminal law, the effect on the victim is to a large extent irrelevant, in fact there may not even be a victim. It is the intent and actions of the perpetrator that make something a crime.
Eivind Berge, aka arpagus, is a self-admitted sexually frustrated loser – not shaming language, just that his anger and bitterness completely dominate his thinking (ironically, just like the feminists). I’m sure he would have been absolutely thrilled had some teacher had her way with him when he was a schoolboy, but his personal feelings would be irrelevant to the criminality of that act.
It is the breach of the trust that society places in her as a teacher that would have made that a serious offense (just because the feminists have hijacked the language of power dynamics for their stories about “the patriarchy” doesn’t mean that such relationships don’t actually exist). Then if course there is the fact that in some jurisdictions such as the US, if she got pregnant he would be liable for child support.
arpagus: “Since 2004, more than ten thousand women have accused men of rape, and not one man has accused a woman, despite our legal system being so forthcoming.”
So what. In principle, it’s possible for a man to rape a woman even if she has given consent – all that matters is that he believe she *didn’t* consent. That this is highly unlikely ever to happen in real life doesn’t alter the fact that it would actually be rape.
There are also other factors involved. Criminal law is only one aspect of the way society runs, arguably it is the crudest and most blunt.
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A bit about “date-rape”.
First of all, I hate the term “date-rape”. If it’s rape, call it for what it is….RAPE. Secondly, I’ve never been raped, whether it’s being raped by a stranger or by an acquaintance. Whoever the rapist is, I imagine that the act itself is traumatizing either way. Who am I or anyone to say that something like that isn’t a big deal? I really don’t think that the image of a child throwing himself into a tantrum over loosing a gumball is a good analogy to use in terms of describing a woman’s reaction to being raped or “date-raped”. In terms of a woman’s reaction to simply being just touched or looked at in a lewd way though, I can understand that analogy.
The woman in the story says that she was raped, and if rape actually took place….then well it was rape not sex. So yeah, to me, her reaction is understandable.
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My comment will be unpopular here, but I’ll share anyway.
I enjoy your blog wholeheartedly JB, and this article wasn’t an exception. However, I found your treatment of the rape victim in the Amherst article needlessly hostile. I read her story in full – did you ? Her description of the incident was that it lasted 30 minutes with an acquaintance in his dorm room while his roommates were in another room, unaware. How is this ‘having sex while people were audible’ ? She didn’t describe how she ended up in his dorm room, so why presume to know she was willingly there? What about her brief summary of the events justifies an eye-roll and a fuck off ?
I admit, I’m biased. Rape is a subject I’m very sensitive about. I think the concept of a “rape culture” and the feminist idea that women’s regret after the fact=rape is offensively stupid, but I also wonder why you choose to differentiate between “date rape” and “rape rape.” Surely, just because the victim and aggressor are not total strangers does not mean the rape itself did not have the capacity to be as violent or traumatizing as “real rape,” right ?
Finally, as to your husband’s hypothetical scenario, I would have also chosen B. As another commenter mentioned, just because a rapist may not inflict physical injury on their victim, they take away their victim’s free will and control to decide who they have sex with, and I would choose enduring physical pain than enduring that. As an aside, I also find the thought of someone being sexually aroused by forcing an unconsenting partner to have sex with them particularly humiliating, but like I said, I am sensitive about the topic.
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If the effect on the victim is irrelevant, how do crimes come into being in the first place? Surely it must be becure the act is generally harmful or at least immoral in some sense. We should expect that a reasonable person would with some regularity be harmed by the act in proportion to the punishment meted out. Not every victim needs to be actually harmed, but the act needs to entail a significant potential for harm. Otherwise, “justice” is just a bunch of arbitrary technicalities with draconian punishments. Might as well conduct a lottery to determine who ends up in prison.
Defining female sexual coercion as rape, with the same punishment as traditional rape, does not pass the reasonable man test. You can’t just extrapolate the banal facts of a (now absurdly expanded) rape definition to men, while denying sex differences, and assume it is the same thing.
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A reasonable woman would scream for help if she is getting raped in a dorm with people nearby. If the law does not require a woman to do this, then rape is not reasonably defined by law, and JB’s reaction to the story is justified. If getting raped is no worse than the embarrassment or whatever prevented the woman from screaming, then rape is not the heinous crime it is made out to be.
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Can a man be raped – I suppose if I were restrained, and taken with out consent, yeah. She slips you a micky, ties you to the bed (or floor if she can’t leverage you onto the bed), waits for you to wake up enough to get aroused and then goes to town on you. It’s going to be difficult to get me aroused if she got me under control by smacking me with her cast iron frying pan (oops there’s that symbol of patriarchal dominance – or what ever). I’ll be too pissed off and trying to share the pain. Almost every scenario I come up with for a women raping a man involves some sort of physical restraint or drugs – which is assault at the minimum. The only reason I can see for it is to get pregnant to extort money – photo’s won’t do it even if she’s a huge fat ugly feminist – hmm maybe….
Yeah it can be done, but it’s going to be a lot of work. – Can a women rape a child – YES. It’s a crime of violence and power, the sex is just a manifestation of power over the victim.
Marlo – I guess it would depend on what you consider “function normally” Does Amanda Marcott function normally? Does any feminist function normally? Hmm a quandary for sure. – the number might exceed 25%, the more I read the more I feel like it’s much higher.
What we need is for both sexes to start wearing chastity belts again. To unlock said belt, requires a signature, fingerprint, and retinal scan, plus a breathalyzer result from both participants with attached photographs, stored digitally on write-once memory. Or – the belt needs to be unlocked by a RFID encrypted signal from a toilet (range not more than 6″ for women, 2’6″ for men. Of course having a sheet of titanium around your crotch 24 hours a day would be a little annoying but I’m assured that the human body can eventually adapt.
OK – maybe just a digital recorder everyone carries with a built in breathalyzer and if you’re going to have sex with someone, you need to have them blow your recorder (ahh, into your recorder) and state in clear speech that you’re consenting to have sex. – Actually, guys, that might not be such a bad idea….. Be tough to call it rape if you have a recording that can be subjected to voice stress analysis. Before a woman is allowed to go after a guy for child support, she needs a recording where he agrees that he is taking responsibility for birth control, and is willing to take responsibility for the child if he chooses to forgo said contraception. (which would really kill the mood, which could be a very good thing – if they’re going to that extent it’s probably entrapment).
Sort of takes the romance out of it, but then that seems to be what the feminists are after anyway. Isn’t romance just a tool of the evil patriarchy?
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Compound fracture of the right tibia and fibula.
I would take labor over that experience again.
It was brutal.
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Eivind, I agree with you completely.
Whatever happened at Amherst, you can be damn sure he didn’t drag Miss Tantrum,kicking and screaming, into his dorm room in full view of all of his roommates.
Bullshit.
She went willingly, and probably gave every indication that sex was on the menu. There is actually nothing wrong with that. Flirting and giving the “fuck me” look to guys is fun and hot and a total ego boost if you get the same look back.
The second you go from looking to “let’s go to your room” you have just implicitly consented to sex. Any woman who doesn’t understand that is either lying or completely stupid.
And for women who really are that stupid, speak up. Say it. Say “rape”. That’s gotta be the biggest bonerkiller out there. You can’t just THINK it and expect your partner to know how you feel.
It’s all about control. Women can’t control men physically, so they work their asses off to control them mentally.
And good luck, ladies.; Be careful what you wish for.
You might get it.
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It’s weird. I found it googling “medieval marriage” and now I can’t find it again. When I drop it into the google toolbar, it takes me to my own site.
I have also never seen it before. It’s lovely. My husband and I have the same proportional difference in height.
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Oh, I’ve broken bones. I broke my right leg too! We seem to have a lot in common. Stack of drywall fell on it.
Compound facture was like potato chips…I still have a floating fibula, and my broken leg was an inch and a half shorter than the other after it all set. So I had to have a leg lengthening procedure (that was the worst), with bars sticking out of my leg I had to crank with a tool everyday, kind of like a palette extender but for the whole leg. Also broken my foot three or four times, and my ankle.
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Oh my god, Liz! That’s terrible!
Goosebumps just thinking about it. You are made of tougher stuff than me to even think of going through that again. Even hypothetically.
I’m a pansy. I really don’t like pain. Childbirth is a very different sort of pain. You get a respite, for one thing. Contractions hurt, but you get to take a break between them. And they don’t hurt like broken bones.
It’s different.
I’ve been turning the choices over in my mind for the past day, and ultimately, they all suck.
None of the above. That’s what I choose.
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JB, maybe I missed it, but no one seems to be drawing a line between “man” and “boy.” If a hot high school teacher had sex with my younger brother when he was twelve, I’d be going after that bitch with a horsewhip, tar and feathers. Kids are too young to consent, whether male or female.
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you can google search by image to find other sizes of the same image, and other places where it is posted.
Having done so, it is called “Tristan and Isolde”, by Marc Fishman.
I don’t know where you found it, but here is every other version of it on the web (of which there are a lot):
https://www.google.com/search?sa=X&hl=en&q=tristan+and+isolde+by+marc+fishman&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSYRpfCxCo1NgEGgIIAgwLELCMpwgaOAo2CAESEMYBRckBywGgAkM5PKEC0QQaIOO4SWUItFdoZbCjmGfojWBmrPudgwLGeY8bG7rGeHltDAsQjq7-CBoKCggIARIEzBizYww&ei=urwYUouFJ8eBiwLGg4DoBQ&ved=0CCgQ2A4oAQ&biw=1280&bih=713#fp=776f060b1db56958&hl=en&pws=0&q=tristan+and+isolde+by+marc+fishman&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSYRpfCxCo1NgEGgIIAgwLELCMpwgaOAo2CAESEMYBRckBywGgAkM5PKEC0QQaIOO4SWUItFdoZbCjmGfojWBmrPudgwLGeY8bG7rGeHltDAsQjq7-CBoKCggIARIEzBizYww
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Judgybitch, you are genuine female women hater, you are fantastic!!!
I understand you perfectly because I am quite male men hater when it comes to things like: “a man with no wife and children is nothing”, “let me show you the pic of my wife and children”, “you do not have to feed a family, you live out of reality”. “if you approach women you are degrading yourself”, “johns are lower people”, “repeant and confess to the priest before is too late!”, “why you do not like soccer? That is no normal”. “you are a bad Spaniard if you do not like soccer”, “Are you shooting blanks?”, etc.
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Off topic
I was thinkind in strong testosteronic symbols that we, Spaniards and Americans, share.
Such: Ernest Hemingway, Orson Welles, Charlton Heston (he loved Spain deeply and worked in this country several times), the Bull as a totemic animal (corrida and rodeo), Bill Clinton (I told he is very popular here), Julio Iglesias, Javier Bardem, Antonio Banderas…
And strong estrogenic symbols such: Ava Gardner, Gwynneth Paltrow, Rita Hayworth, Penelope Cruz..Sigourney Weaver (it is quite normal watching her walking around old Madrid….)
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Thinking.
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I was raped by a 60 year old fat platinum blond drunk British lady with Fellini boobs when I was 18.
I liked it.
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I agree with the reasonable person standard. The sexes aren’t equal. A few hypotheticals come to mind. The other day my husband and I were discussing a friend’s teenaged daughter who, at 15, had a sexual relationship with her soccer coach.
I turned the situation around and we discussed what his reaction would be if I had that background in my highschool past. He’d be disgusted, want to find the guy and punch him. Then we switched the scenario and if he’d had that in his past with a female coach I’d be moderately disturbed at first…but also kind of intrigued, after thinking about it honestly (assuming he went into the relationship willingly). Now, if my oldest son (the only teen in the house so far) had a relationship with a female teacher I’d want to kill her. But I doubt my husband would feel the same, he’d probably feel like giving him a ‘high five’. If we had a daughter, he’d bring out the shotgun. Then again, if the teacher were a male he’d probably also bring out the shotgun.
It’s interesting to look at it from the angle of infidelity as well. If my husband had an affair with a woman, I’d be very het up, but i might get over it depending on the circumstances. OTOH, if he had a sexual relationship with a man I’d never let him touch me again. Flip it, and if I were having an affair with another man he’d be extremely enraged and probably leave. But if I were having a sexual relationship with another woman he’d ask if he could watch.
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Well there is the issue of the victim being prevented from screaming, like having her mouth covered. Or actually afraid of screaming or doing anything that might upset her attacker to the point of threatening her life. But yeah, if you can, be vocal about it!
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We don’t know the details of the story. What you said could be true, that she was sending out those “signals”. Or the woman and the guy could have just been hanging out and nothing more. I’ve been in a guy’s dorm room before (a friend of mine), just watching anime.
As Evangeline Claire said, a woman hanging out in a guy’s room in and of itself isn’t an inclination of wanting to have sex. If sexual signals are thrown in, then I can understand (even then if she made it clear that she didn’t want to have sex at that moment then regardless, it’s still rape).
In either case, she didn’t go into a whole lot of detail about what happened. Maybe she did say “No”, maybe she did fought. Maybe she didn’t out of fear of even more bodily harm. Maybe she was out of it. Maybe it wasn’t even rape. None of us actually know.
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There is a high raping rate in Spain and all Catholic countries. Perpetrated by the clergy against MALE children. In Lutheran countries you do not have such a social problem.
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An important aspect of the red pill as a social movement is taking sexism off the taboo list and restoring it normal culture. Not misogyny or misandry, but sexism, the basic comprehension that men and women are fundamentally different, and articulating and accepting gender differences.
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Wow this is very difficult to digest. This goes against everything I learned in Criminal Law
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““Honey, I am sorry you dropped your gumball. I know you are angry and sad and mad and it’s absolutely fine for you to feel those things. It is NOT okay for you to force everyone else to listen to your problems. You are not allowed to scream and cry and bother other people. If you need to cry, go ahead, but do it quietly. Or save your cry for later. You can’t control how you FEEL, but you can control how you ACT, and you will do so. Self-control. There is nothing wrong with it, and you will learn it. Starting right now.”
Gold absolute gold. I did not know how to deal with tantrums until now. Thanks.
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“Can lies ever be used to justify lies?”
No. The best cure for lie is truth. Lying only continues the cycle of damage.
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I certainly agree with you Elwind, but only providing that all the facts of the case are known. In other words, unless we know that the woman not only did not scream, but was able to do so and chose not to, then we do not know enough about what happened to make that kind of judgment.
The woman in question did not provide any details at all as to how she ended up in the man’s dorm room, or whether her ability to signal for help at the time was prevented by her attacker. Until all the facts are provided, I think it’s unreasonable of anyone to presume to know what really happened and make judgments about the woman based on those presumptions.
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JB, I’m dismayed by your projection here. In actuality, we have no idea what the circumstances were that led to her being in his dorm room. Obviously, she didn’t wind up in there kicking and screaming in front of the roommates, but there are countless other ways she could have ended up in there that don’t necessarily include flirting her way in. To provide one example, when I was in college, my RA often had dorm residents, male and female, meet with him in his room if they had a problem to discuss because the building was small and there wasn’t much opportunity to have private conversations elsewhere.
What I mean to get at is that it’s unreasonable to make any judgments about the incident this woman describes either way. The school ultimately threw out the case due to lack of evidence, true. Still, she doesn’t provide enough information about what happened for anyone to decide that this was just a case of bad sex. Obviously, what happened disturbed her, so I would think the only logical conclusion one could come to is that sex occurred, the woman claims it was rape, but no charges were filed against the man. Any further assumptions about what happened are unfounded.
I have to admit, you seem unnecessarily hostile towards this woman.
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Sorry, “Eivind.” Not sure how I saw it as Elwind.
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“if women are just as strong as men, why do they fear getting raped? wouldn’t they just be able to fend off any male attacker with equal strength?” http://manhood101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2968&p=56256#p56256
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I’m building a rape tunnel http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/01/im_building_a_rape_tunnel.html
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“if women are just as strong as men, why do they fear getting raped? wouldn’t they just be able to fend off any male attacker with equal strength?” Prof Plum
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When it’s okay to rape a woman? http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/03/when_is_it_okay_to_rape_a_woma.html
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” When a boy gets lucky with an older woman such as a teacher, quit insisting he was “raped” or “abused,” because sexual abuse is not what is going on here. Forcing these relationships into a framework of “rape” or “sexual abuse” designed for women only…”
I would probably use the expression ‘taking advantage’
An older woman can likely manipulate a boy more easily than a man her own age. The detriment to the boy becomes a loss of focus on his formation; depending upon the benevolence of the woman.
Not a relationship among equals.
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You have a toddler and you’ve never tried talking to him rationally?
If you have a toddler, and that works for him/her, awesome. Honestly, it never worked on my sons. When they turned about four, sure. They’re fantastic kids and have been for a long time..before then, the dropping, slamming their heads against the ground shrieking really couldn’t be curtailed by anything I said. I recommend a straight jacket (swaddling for infants).
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No, the boy is not taken advantage of either. That would imply he had any sexual value to women that could be taken advantage of, and a schoolboy having this is absurd. You are right it is not a relationship among equals (because women have very little to gain from such a relationship, and therefore they rarely happen) — but so what? The woman is giving up value that most boys can only dream of, so the only way to describe it is the boy is extremely lucky. The feminist notion that relationships among unequals is abuse is hateful and unreasonable to begin with even when applied to girls and older men, but here the boy is the one getting lucky, so it is absurd to impute any “being taken advantage of” to him. If anyone is being taken advantage of, it is the teacher giving up sex to a very inferior mate with no status that most females would reject, even most girls his own age. I think you just assume “abuse” or being taken advantage of must be going on only because you have heard it so many times. The feminist propaganda saying so permeates our culture, but if you think about it, it does not make sense. Our laws and political correctness merely decree “sex abuse” into existence with no evidence that it is actually abusive. If you really want these kinds of relationships to be forbidden and punished, at least come up with a way to conceptualize the crime that is not embarrassingly absurd and inconsistent. Why not just say you find it immoral or something like that, rather than shoehorn it into some false category of “abuse”? When an underage girl has consensual sex, she isn’t truly being raped or abused either, but at least she is giving up something valuable, which might be unwise because it slightly lowers her sexual market value. Thus while I don’t condone them because they are far too broad and draconian, these laws applied to girls can at least be said to be half-truths with some merits in protecting girls from their own foolishness. When applied to boys vs. older women, it becomes not only unjust and hateful but downright perverse, because the boys are spectacularly lucky rather than victims in any sense of the word; not even victims of their own stupidity as may happen when girls are taken advantage of.
As to sex with teacher being a “loss of focus on his formation” — do you have any evidence for this? It is certainly runs counter to common sense. I recall the number one distraction from my learning at school was sexual frustration, so if I was actually having sex with a teacher rather than fantasizing about her, I think I could be more focused on my education.
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Well firstly, thank you so much for such a thorough rebuttal Eivind; It truely is a lot to think about.
In no way do I consider myself a zealot when it comes to the punishment of these ‘crimes’ as it applies to sexually mature young men or young women with which our societies are very preoccupied. But neither do I condone.
“As to sex with teacher being a “loss of focus on his formation” — do you have any evidence for this? It is certainly runs counter to common sense. I recall the number one distraction from my learning at school was sexual frustration, so if I was actually having sex with a teacher rather than fantasizing about her, I think I could be more focused on my education.”
I did add a caveat to this question of loss of focus. However, imagine how such an xperience could turn out negatively. You, a sexually mature but not wordly youth could become too consumed by what is no longer a nebulous fantasy but an all too concrete reality. If this woman continues to be sexually available, ok… maybe.
I will break my reply up in more than one post.
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“The feminist notion that relationships among unequals is abuse is hateful and unreasonable to begin with…”
The world is full of relationships among unequals; it must be the way of the world. There are some extremes that I hope are policed.
I beg to differ with you on the value of young men and what value they may have sexually to mature women
…
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Let’s consider female sexuality for a second,
My impression of women is a high desire for control. A form of projection by women is always harping on men about their perceived desire to control. Maybe the desire to control, (further, manipulate) is hardwired. And, of course, it extends to their sexuality.
Women get off controlling one of these pasionate male beasts. What would be more raw controlable pasion than a horny young male to assuage their ego?
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” If anyone is being taken advantage of, it is the teacher giving up sex to a very inferior mate with no status that most females would reject, even most girls his own age.”
The blossoming girls his own age probably don’t lack for male interest.
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Male interest or more positively,
male concern. In intact traditional families the experienced patriarch usually does the policing that I mentioned above on behalf of his female charges without need for involving the state, and the knowledgeable matriarch watches over what is beneficial for her sons; it occurs to me that we can draw some conclusions from this
…
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Unrelated (mostly) but holy crap:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2397002/Daughter-sent-father-prison-40-years-lying-raped-pleads-release.html
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such a thing is due to the fact that the majority of cases that could be called rape involve a man who is extremely capable of beating the ever loving shit of the woman, but lets it continue cause he knows it would be frowned upon at best if he did such a thing. the minority of cases where it truly can be called rape involves a man (or boy, since an experienced woman can talk one into a relationship of that sort) who is physically weaker or drugged by the woman. the latter is the focus of such laws, which see inactivity due to the man not being able to remember it, or not being able to get away long enough to report it
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No but since I am planning ahead to my potential fatherhood. It’s good to keep such advice in mind
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i believe the main focus of this piece is about how a more stereotypical case of rape can affect a person. an older woman preying on a young boy is more of an extreme, and has been mentioned a few times in older articles
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To continue,
It occurs to me that I can’t recollect an instance where a mother was thrilled by some ‘hussy’ or ‘old heifer’ latching on to her son; maybe they have some inside information on this matter. Of course, it’s not to the venemous degree that fathers view interlopers in their daughters’ lives which mothers are a little more tolerant of. But never so tolerant as to pump their fist in the air and shout a hearty “fuck yea”. This analysis is all more apparent in the absence of perverse legal incentives or oppressive government.
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If he has no value to her, then why is she risking censure or prison to have sex with him. He has value to her by definition.
Your assertion that he has no value is the feminist assertion, and the societal assertion and is one of reasons why the suicide rate is so high for young men/boys. You agree with it completely so I don’t know why you’re ripping “feminist propaganda”.
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A woman my brother used to babysit for had statutory rape sex with him. She controlled him and took 10 years of his life away. There are consequences.
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Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face, then they have to improvise.
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Well, go to a bar and find the drunkest person in the place, then try to reason with him. That’s about what it’s like to reason with a toddler (generality, but essentially true).
That’s why you don’t swear in front of them…you can say, “don’t say those words” until you’re blue in the face, but if they hear it once or twice it’s like having a parrot on your shoulder shouting expletives at the most inappropriate moments.
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Nothing romantic in a hookup. It’s all base instinct and animal lust.
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You got lucky. If you had been “raped” going into that room and laying on his bed watching Anime, you might think again about that. You wouldn’t get any sympathy from me.
I got robbed in Cuba (punched in the throat while chain was ripped from my neck). I was half in the bag, staggering about with a $300 gold chain on my neck. Did I deserve to be robbed? Could I have mitigated my risk?
I think rape culture is the same as my sense of security in a nice place like Cuba. The penalties are harsh for robbing tourists so I felt like I could just go into downtown Havana and cocktease the shit out of those peasants. Not so much now.
She didn’t go into detail about the incident because such details are “irrelevant” in the discussion.
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That “rape” is an absolute liability and requires no mens rea? It’s like speeding but with life in prison on the table.
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I love your schnauzer! I have one too look at my gravatar
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As a man who’s faced both rape (yes, REAL rape, where I was incapacitated by the woman administering a noxious substance, i.e., GHB in my beer, and then fucked me while I was recovering from the resultant coma) and violence and abuse of every kind (including attempted homicide) in the hands of women, I will say without a moment’s hesitation that physical violence is worse than rape. And what’s worse than EITHER of these is being ignored/scapegoated/charged with a crime when you are the victim of said crime. THAT is crazy-making shit right there — and men face that ALL THE TIME.
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Your objection to the proliferation of the word “abuse” missed the bus by at least a couple decades and reflects a misunderstanding of the way social advocates try to raise awareness of social problems. It has ever been true that new social problems which have yet to achieve public consciousness are always presented using the language of previously defined issues.
Child abuse, in fact, is the classical example of this. The seminal work in this area is “Threatened Children,” by sociologist Joel Best. Now days though, child abuse has become rather passe and it’s generally more effective to redefine new social problems in terms of newer and sexier ones like “domestic violence,” “sexual harassment,” and the broader umbrella of “women’s issues” as they are the cause célébre of our time. Examples of this can be seen with social advocates claiming things like “toilets in Africa are a women’s issue,” “climate change is a women’s issue,” and a lack of free contraception is an outright “war on women.”
Another apropos example of this is the ever expanding feminist definition of rape where almost anything a man does to a women can somehow be construed as a form of rape, proxy-rape, thought-rape, rape-advocacy or some other such nonsense (notwithstanding their efforts to gerrymander the definition in such a way that female and male rape does not exist.)
While we can certainly object to this sort of rhetoric and try to curb its excesses, it would be naive to believe that this sort of thing is not so common as to be ubiquitous. Politicians always claim to be doing things “for the children” when they have nothing to do w/ children at all. The Simpson’s has had a running gag where someone shrieks “won’t someone please think of the children” for almost any reason whatsoever (usually when no children are involved) for as long as I can remember.
All that said, while I can see merit in an argument that female teacher on male student sex is not “rape.” Saying something like:”
“When [rape and consent standards are] applied to boys vs. older women, it becomes not only unjust and hateful but downright perverse, because the boys are spectacularly lucky rather than victims in any sense of the word”
I find repugnant. For starters, there is a gross abuse of authority going on here. These are underage boys. This is not like a power differential in the workplace where a boss has a relationship w/ his secretary. Children are generally required to attend public schools and have little discretion as to which school or teacher they would get and lack the maturity to make wise decisions on such matters anyway. These teachers are charged with the education and formation of their children students (and paid to do so from public no less.)
Moreover, just because you have lived a sexless life (or at least childhood) and think you would have loved some interest from older women in your adolescence, you shouldn’t project your own personal fantasies on the rest of the male youth population. How you would feel and how you would be affected, hypothetically, is not a standard that anyone should regard very highly.
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Well there is the issue of the victim… …actually afraid of screaming or doing anything that might upset her attacker to the point of threatening her life. But yeah, if you can, be vocal about it!
But, Renee, don’t you see that you’re proving Judgy Bitch’s point here in saying this? This woman, regardless of the facts of how she got into that dorm room (hell, for kicks, let’s just say he dragged her in there by her hair and was violently raping her) is faced with a choice:
1.) Scream like hell, risk him getting pissed, and beating her a bit before someone comes to her assistance;
2.) Stay quiet and let him rape her out of fear of him beating her up;
She chose option #2, which means that without question, this woman feared being beaten more than she feared being raped, which means that TO THIS WOMAN, being raped is less of a victimization than being beaten. She chose rape over a beating, as women do quite regularly.
JB was asking a simple question:
IF women chose rape over a beating all the time, is rape really as psychologically damaging as feminists like to say that it is? Or is the psychological damage the result of the constant feminist conditioning that rape is a fate worse than death? Is it just part of the feminist hamster dance?
I don’t know the answer to this question, but from the story above, it would seem like this woman, at least, was less worried about rape than she was getting beaten.
I’ve been pitched a beating before. It hurt, it took a while to recover, but it really wasn’t that big of a deal. I can tell you right now that if a man was trying to actually rape ME, I’d fight like a motherfucker and let him beat me to death before I let him rape me, because to me, being raped by a man would be absolutely worth taking a beating to prevent.
But it seems like over and over again, we hear stories of women basically allowing the rape to happen without fighting or screaming because they are afraid of getting beaten up, so to me, at least, JB is asking a valid question.
In the situation in that dorm room, the man may have had absolutely no idea whatsoever that this woman considered him to be raping her. He might have thought she was into it. He might have thought that this was the beginning of a long relationship, and it was because she didn’t resist (or at least if she did, she didn’t think it was important enough to mention in her retelling of the story). That is why I think it is women, not men, that need retraining in this department. If you are able to resist, YOU MUST RESIST, or else it cannot be considered rape. Otherwise, how in the hell is the guy going to even know?
Like JB said, just mention “rape” and 99.99% of these things would stop right there. You don’t even have to kick and scream, just say “No, you are trying to rape me right now, STOP!” and most guys would go “holy shit! I’m sorry, I didn’t know!” I think women would be shocked at how many of these “rapes” were just a guy thinking she was into it when she didn’t tell him to stop.
Guys are supposed to take the lead. It is expected. So when he is leading into an area you don’t want to go, just say “STOP.” If he doesn’t, say “rape!” If that doesn’t work, start screaming and clawing his eyeballs out. That would solve nearly every case of rape that I’ve read about on this forum. The rest of them, well, hell, the guy was going to rape you anyway, at least you tried and you can go down with your boots on.
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I think there is a difference between boys, depending how young, and grown men. Boys, especially in the throes of puberty and more so if they’re not socially well-developed, may indeed experience some of the same emotional problems as girls. But at that age, I’m going to guess it’s the potential social embarrassment that fuels it. There was such an incident in college, but the freshman guy was pretty socially inept and the incident became public against his will (he never reported it). Upshot: he left school, she came back a semester later.
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Rape is staggering towards a definition in which any sex a woman deems as rape IS rape as long as she thinks it is.
Oh, I think we’re already on the brink of this, if not already well down that road. The story of the Amherst Girl is a case in point.
No one is really traumatized by this, unless they choose to be….devastated just by the sex itself? Imagining other rapists everywhere?
This, too, is what feminists quietly mean when they promote “rape culture”: the sense of permanent, on-going victimhood. Amherst Girl at one point says ” I will never be 100% better, but I no longer feel like a victim. I’m a survivor…” This is the mindset that feminists want to drill into the heads of women after they make the choice to feel that bad sex or an encounter a woman regrets as “rape.” More on that below.
First, there are reasons why Amherst Girl’s (AG) story is a perfect example of feminist creation of “rape culture” and the idea that “it’s rape if she thinks (chooses) it’s rape, end of discussion.” AG provides absolutely no details at all of the circumstances of her “rape,” other than she was “held down” and there were other people right outside the door. She just flatly states “I was raped.” She doesn’t tell anyone until a year later when she finally sees the campus “sexual assault” counselor. By this time she’s fed her nearly delusional-level fear to the point where she thinks it was the “worst night of her life.” She expresses ideations of suicide to the counselor, who quite correctly refers her to the county hospital for psych evaluation. She describes her time on the psych ward in terms approaching One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. And endless nightmare that lasted 5 days. She the spirals in and out of elation and depression and again crashes and burns when the administration decides that perhaps spending a year studying in Africa isn’t the best idea for an unmedicated manic-depressive. So upset because she hasn’t gotten what she wants, she again seems to drift toward suicide ideation, but wise keeps her mouth shut.
But some of the background is interesting. This is a girl who claims “seventeen harrowing years of emotional abuse in my backwoods home” in the “Deep South” (hmmm, where have I heard a similar story with a much better ending?) and who apparently has no parents (hence the school trying to look out for her welfare). Her “rapist” graduated with honors, so I’m going to assume he came from at least a solid middle-class background (this is Amherst after all). She was a freshman, he was a junior at the time of the incident. So, we have a deeply dysfunctional, very young girl who had bad sex with an older, more affluent man who probably was just interested in sex. What could go wrong?
She eventually decides to quit school and contacts a victims advocacy group for survivors.
And that’s an interesting word, one that bears a second look. These brave women who had a night of bad sex and who eventually turn a corner from “victim” somehow become “survivors.” That word has a fairly specific meaning, and I quote, “the continuation of life or existence.” Basically surviving means not being dead. So, I guess you get to claim this label because a night of sex you regret in the morning didn’t actually kill you. Sorry, dear, you’re still a victim, but not the way you think: your a victim of feminists who want you good and traumatized in order to advance a failing agenda that couldn’t actually care less about you’re personal well-being.
Finally, a quick, illumination from the comments on AG’s article. One commenter, an “on campus sexual assault prevention organization” notes:
No one should have to go through something like this, especially when there are people outside the door that could help. And especially if your rapist is unaware he is raping you. Being clear about ones intentions is the easiest way to avoid these situations.
and get’s this response:
you should be ashamed. Your comment is complete and total victim blaming, and takes the blame off of the young man himself…it is also the other person’s to make sure they do not rape.
So, there it is fellas. You probably think you’re just having an enthusiastic roll in the hay. But it’s also your responsibility to make sure she doesn’t regret it in the morning….
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In the 80’s the radical feminists had one of their standard publicity campaigns, RAPE IS THE WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN TO A WOMAN. I ran around at work, asking women if that were true. 100% of them said, yes, rape is ther worst thing that can happen to a woman.
However, I added a second question: Would you give up your kids forever to avoid being raped? As you almost certainly suspect, 100% of them instantly changed their tune, and said they would not. In fact, one woman, who had just said rape was the worst thing that could happen to a woman, offered to kick my butt for suggesting she would give up her kids to avoid a trivial thing like rape.
I concluded rape is not the worst thing that can happen to a woman. Losing her kids may be, though.
No, rape is simply the worst thing that women expect can happen to them. Men who lose their kids are supposed to work two jobs and send lots of money for kids they never see.
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Much of the definition of rape is cultural. I live in Mexico, and my best friend was for 22 years what we would call country coroner. He not only did autopsies. He also did rape investigations. He took that job seriously. His goal was to send rapists to prison, and to send falsely accused men home free.
I guarantee you in Mexico, if a woman has been alone in a man’s apartment for a long time it would be very hard to get a rape conviction. In Mexico, women even as little girls are taught you do not go alone into a man’s apartment or house, period. Never.
So, in such a culture, if she is alone with a man, especially in his bedroom, it is presumed she knew what she was doing.
There has been no public rape case in Mexico like several years ago in the US. One of those cases involved a woman who had been engaged in heavy sexual petting for several hours, then once she got her rocks off said that was all. He got real serious prison time.
The other involved a woman who, at closing time in a bar, flopped down on the floor in front of the other men and did sex with one of them. The other drunks decided to join in. They got serious prison time.
And, in Mexico, it is not just Mexican men are cruel. The Mexican women do not sympathize with such women at all. They don’t have jury trials in Mexico. If they did, the women would acquit men in those cases.
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“I have a hard time imagining a “dragged into the bushes and raped” scenario for men, though. If the other rapist is a MAN, or a group of men, well, yes. I can see that.
But by a woman?
Am I the only one who finds this hard to imagine? I can’t find a case of it reported anywhere. Nor can I find men for whom this scenario lives in their imaginations with the capacity to TERRIFY them.
man
Most of the accounts of male rape do not involve anything like brute force. It’s mostly a combination of the man being incapacitated by alcohol or coercion that the man doesn’t resist for any number of reasons.”
I read somewhere that forcible rape of a man by women often involves 1) a group of at least 3 women, and 2) not infrequently ends with the man being castrated. (Of course, as is known from DV studies, women are more likely to use surprise, weapons, or target the helpless such as sleeping/drunk/disabled, so no surprise how other cases might go…)
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Here is an example of REAL rape:
Twelve Muslims Gang Raped Swedish Mother in Refugee Camp
“Seven-hour non-stop gang rape by 12 Afghan muslim refugees was the ‘most gruesome rape marathon in Sweden’s history,’ say prosecutors. The rape was oral, anal, and vaginal, with up to three rapists in her at the same time. Only 7 of the 12 rapists were convicted.
The other Muslim onlookers were clapping and cheering and calling the woman a “whore” and a “slut,” how Muslim men describe unveiled women. The victim is now confined to a wheelchair, suffering severe mental distress. The Swedish media concealed the ethnicity of the perpetrators and quickly removed the story. Swedish socialists say it would be “racist” to deport the rapists.”
http://www.whiteresister.com/index.php/stories/117-horrific-gang-rape-of-29-year-old-white-mother-of-two-by-muslim-asylum-seekers-in-swedish-refugee-camp-video
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I’d pick option C too.
I’d much rather be raped than have my arm broken. A broken arm will never fully recover (and hurt like hell)
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Just wanted to check in to say I am a male “survivor” of rape. And no, it didn’t traumatise me and I don’t get how it traumatises so many women.
My esperience left me with the following feelings 1) I wanted a shower, I felt physically dirty, having cleaned my crotch off, I ceased to feel dirty. 2) Anger and loss of trust at the woman who had sex with me while I was asleep. 3) Frustration that there was not a damned thing I could do about it, which wore off, pretty quickly.
On your quiz, I chose A, l prefer cuts over breaks simply for healing time and figure getting screwed in the ass by a guy when I’m not willing would do some damage that’s unknown. But when I was last attacked by a guy, that did leave me a little “traumatised” for nearly a year. I was jumped by two guys while walking in a park, one of them sliced my shoulder with a knife and they gave me a kicking. That gave me nightmares, lost me sleep and made me a little wary of being out on my own for a while.
Unwanted sex, in and of itself, I just don’t get the big deal.
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The point is, the average adolescent boy has no sexual value to the average woman. These kinds of relationships happen so rarely that when they do happen, they are reported world-wide as sensational man-bites-dog stories. When men are involved with underage females, it is only reported locally unless the man is famous, because these relationships only reflect the normal order. Feminists want you to believe the sexes are equal so they can pretend their hateful sex laws are good for boys, too. It is the ultimate red herring to the war on male sexuality. Thus nothing can be more politically correct than claiming women sexually “abusing” boys is a problem that should be prosecuted. Do you really not see that you are doing exactly what the feminists want you to do, while I am the one opposing their madness? Men buying into the female sex-offender charade are useful idiots for the feminists.
Society now falsely inflates the sexual value of boys by claiming women can prey on them. This is a fundamental falsehood and a giant disservice to boys likely to increase the suicide rate, as in the real world boys are mostly starved for sex. The few boys who get lucky with older women are the super alphas. They are as far from victims as you can get. Meanwhile the sexless majority of boys are mocked and further marginalized by the whole charade. It’s not really unusual for those who are already privileged to be coddled further while the have-nots fall by the wayside, so in some ways it’s not surprising. But the notion that women can sexually abuse boys is hands-down the most bizarre lie ever told.
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Having your arm broken really isn’t that bad. I would choose that one.
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It’s not that bad (assuming no complications like ruptured tissue or misaligned setting) But it takes months to heal and stops you using your arm for a while, which is bloody inconvenient. Your face will heal from a cut really quickly and it won’t stop you doing owt. Much better.
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Having been legitimately raped and having had a broken arm. I would rather have my arm broke than be raped.
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Hey JB,
I found your website today and I was intrigued by this posting, and where the comment threads have gone. Had to reply.
With regards to older women and young boys, I think it’s still sexual abuse, not because the boys are traumatized, but because it interferes with healthy sexual development and the ability to form a healthy sexual relationship with a spouse from one’s peer group, much the way pornography keeps men from experiencing healthy sexual expectations. That’s why mothers freak out when a much older woman starts sniffing around her sons. It’s going to make it much harder for her boys to grow into healthy men who marry and are healthy husbands and fathers because they will start seeing women only as sex objects and not as a potential wife and mother with whom to build a life. It messes young men up.
With regard to rape, I think you make a very good point. Our society has gotten so permissive and self-centered that we’ve taken away the tools women need to deal with rape. Clearly I’m not a woman and I’m no expert on rape, but after my combat and other experience in Afghanistan I had a screaming case of PTSD that it took years for me to work through (go watch Restrepo if you want an idea of where I was at and what I was dealing with). My understanding is that most rape survivors will have PTSD.
Here’s the thing. For someone without a strong sense of identity, without a sense of purpose in their lives, without a reason to live other than being an ornament (being pretty but useless or living to party), a traumatic event will probably push them toward suicide, because they are much easier to hurt; their self-image is derived from without. After a rape, they may view themselves as damaged goods that no one can love, and they therefore have a hard time loving themselves.
For a person with a strong sense of self, a strong sense of purpose in life, and strong family relationships, a traumatic event is something you can work through together. It doesn’t destroy your sense of self and your sense of purpose in life (not in the long run, anyway). It doesn’t destroy the value your family has for you, and it doesn’t make you feel like people will no longer care about you. For these people, traumatic events never leave them, but they aren’t broken by traumatic events because they still have a strong sense of self, of contributing to the world, of loving and being loved in return. Ultimately, though traumatic events are terrible and not to be wished on anyone, a traumatic event for a person like this will become a source of strength, because it shows that person they can bounce back from just about anything and makes them contribute that much more to the world around them, and value that much more the things they have.
People who raise their daughters and don’t teach them situational awareness, who don’t teach them to achieve something other than being a pretty face, who don’t teach them to be valued by the people around them for being something other than a penis receptacle shortchange them by not giving them anything to live for other than their own sexuality, so when a rapist takes control of the only thing they live for, those women have nothing left to live for, and that even WILL rule them for the rest of their lives (which may not be very long… when people hurt long enough and hard enough, they WILL take their own lives).
Having overcome my own traumatic events from war, I recognize how blessed I am to have a wife that teaches my daughters to be accomplished young women with strong family relationships and a determination to find a young man worthy of them rather than to sell themselves in the fleshpots of the world for popularity. And they have a dad who’s smart enough to get them into MMA at a young age and to teach them tactical firearms training so they can avoid threats where possible, and destroy threats where necessary.
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Late to the party but i’ll say mine.
To me it is wrong for the same reason we consider it wrong for an adoptive parent to have sex with their adoptive child. There, as opposed to between two adults, is a real difference and opportunity for the older to use their position to initiate either directly or via grooming. In short, was the boy really lusting after his teacher? Not all older women are enough in shape that their possible experience brings enough value to offset what their body has lost. I know that i atleast never had a teacher hot enough for me to lust after.
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Is it the worst thing that can happen? No. Is it still bad enough to screw your life up, at least for a while? Yes.
I was sexually assaulted (not even raped) at age 16 by someone much older. To this day I still have flashbacks of what he did to me. And I’m not emotionally weak by any stretch. By the time I was 8 years old I was keeping my mother’s life together for her after my dad died. I’d choose having my arm broken OR having my face cut over going through what I did before, let alone actual rape.
I will say that calling drunk sex “rape” is ridiculous. I’ve had drunk sex with my boyfriend of three years plenty of times. Not once was it rape, it was quite fun really.
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Those poor Third World women need their consciousness raised by privileged white do-gooders so that they can learn how to stage a proper tantrum.
It would appear that privilege in Western women results in sort of a climb up their own Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs such that they lose the ability to understand cause and effect, math, and other oppressive concepts of logic. I would be willing to toss aside all my “rights” if it meant that these women would be confined to their own homes and would stop exporting their pathology throughout the globe. However, it would seem that television is doing the job just fine.
Imagine my shock when Camille Paglia recommended that feminists turn to the problems in India. I’m sure that India doesn’t need feminists “help” either.
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So you had to put up with both. That sucks.
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WOW ! I read this article and I 100% appreciate and respect your opinion ! Especially loved your description of how you raise your children ! I am also very glad to realize that there are women out there, like yourself, who are capable of thinking and acting in a rational manner ! You give me hope for the future ! 😉 If more women were like you, I would start to love and appreciate women in general ! I will add your blog to my favorites and start reading more of you ! Once again: WOW , your views and believes are like a breeze of fresh air for my mind , since it is so unconventional in the society I / we live in.
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