In news that probably comes a shock to approximately no one, more than 40% of young men report being on the receiving end of unwanted sexual activity, and 95% of those men report the perpetrators as women.
Over 4 in 10 participants (43%) experienced sexual coercion: more specifically, the participants reported: verbal coercion (31%,n86), seduction coercion (26%,n73), physical coercion (18%,n52), and substance coercion (7%,n19). Rates were comparable across high school and college students. Racial differences were found such that Asian participants reported significantly lower rates of sexual coercion than Black, White, and Latino participants. Ninety-five percent of the respondents reported women as the perpetrators; participants also described internal obligation, seductive, and peer pressure tactics in descriptions of coercion experiences.
Bill Maher made a little sketch comedy about this study, calling it “Lucky Bastard Syndrome”.
The men in this skit are all well-groomed, well-proportioned and very nice looking, which implies the women they are apparently turning down for sex are similarly well-groomed and well-proportioned, making it seem just crazy that the dudes might turn down sex, right? What, some hot chick wants to roll your ass and you’re not down with it? Preposterous!
Maher’s incredulity that a man might want something other than sex (Gasp! What else could he possibly want?) plays into the idea that all men ever think about or ever want is sex. Sex, sex and more sex. Jezebel even picked up the story and of course linked it to a toxic masculinity that dictates men must chase the pussy at all times, everywhere, under all circumstances.
I’ve argued this before, and I’ll argue it again: it’s not masculinity that insists men are little more than rutting pigs seeking any wet hole. That’s the story feminism spins about masculinity, particularly through the idea of rape culture, because an entire culture focused on rape requires endlessly fuckable women and endlessly libidinous men or the whole show collapses. The idea that there might be some imminently unfuckable women or that men might have something on their minds other than fucking is a complete anathema to feminism.
How do men define masculinity then, if not simply by pussy proxy?
Honorable
Self-reliant
Respected
Top three qualities reported by 27 000 randomly selected men from 8 different countries.
Overall, being seen as honorable was considered the most important quality in the construct of masculinity. “Being seen as a man of honor” was cited as the most important attribute of masculine identity in Spain, Brazil, Mexico, United States and France, while “being in control of your own life” was the most important in Germany, the United Kingdom and Italy.
What the hell? 27 000 men and not one of them put “ability to rape a lot of chicks” at the top of their list for what defines the masculine? Feminists have a lot more work to do, apparently. And when it comes to quality of life, most men seem to have missed the memo, too.
Regardless of age or nationality, men more frequently ranked good health, harmonious family life and good relationships with their wife or partner as more important to their quality of life than material, self-fulfilling or purely sexual concerns.
Harmonious family life? Good health? Being self-reliant and feeling like your life is led with honor? These are the things men consider cornerstones of masculinity? Yeah, pretty toxic, I’d say.
Okay, so let’s get back to the study about sexual coercion/seduction. 40% of men report that women attempted to kiss and/or fondle them and escalate that activity into full-blown sex. Now, if a woman wants to see if a man is interested in sex, I’d say planting a kiss and sliding your hands under his shirt (assuming there was some kind of indication of mutual attraction) is an excellent way to test the waters further. Be prepared for rejection, but hey, give it a shot?
The question the survey does not ask is why the men were not interested in further sexual activity. It’s almost as if the researchers were mystified that men can be and are frequently uninterested in sex with a particular woman. I’d be curious about the factors that led to men rejecting sexual advances from women. Not curious that they would reject advances, but curious about why. Does it violate their sense of honor and respectability? Do they find sexually aggressive women unappealing? Does the woman’s attractiveness or lack thereof factor into their response? Do they not like the feeling of being hunted? Just not in the mood for girl shit right now? There are so many possibilities that could give great insight into men as human beings rather than “emotionless dickbots”, as one Jezebel writer so kindly refers to them as.
An interesting finding is that the experience of sexual coercion does not lead to self-esteem issues for men the way it typically does for women. The researchers theorize that “sexual victimization might not impact males’ self-perceptions in the same way that it does for women, and instead may be inadvertently consistent with expectations of masculinity and sexual desire”. They go on to suggest that sexual validation from women is a key part of masculine identity, even though men themselves report no such thing.
That’s curious.
I have an entirely different theory as to why the experience of sexual coercion does not impact men’s self-perceptions and it has to do with men’s sense of agency and responsibility. Any man that allows himself to be sexually coerced, in the absence of serious, life-threatening harm (which most women would be hard-pressed to deliver) never loses sight of the fact that he made a call and it wasn’t a particularly great one. Agreeing to have sex (being coerced) even when you really don’t want to might be a bad decision, but it’s still his decision.
Contrast that with women, who will make the exact same bad decision in the exact same scenario, and then look around for someone to blame. Both the man and the woman are at a party, both are approached by opposite sex partners, both receive passionate kisses and both are fondled. Both agree to sexual activity even though neither one is interested in that.
The man wakes up and thinks “Well that was stupid. I’m not doing that again.”
The woman wakes up and thinks, “Oh my god, I’ve been raped!”
It comes down to agency. Do you make your own decisions or do you not? Are you an adult capable of resisting coercive strategies or are you not? Can you make a bad decision and still understand that it was your decision to make? Can you make a bad decision and resolve to make better ones in the future, or are you transformed into a snivelling ball of snot incapable of even contemplating your own complicity?
Who is accountable for your choices? You? Or someone else?
And there you have the main difference between men and women who have experienced sexual coercion. He gives in but never fails to understand he made the choice to give in. She gives in and wants to punish her male partner for her decision, because she can’t handle the responsibility for her own choices.
It’s really pathetic.
When feminists peddle their “rape culture” and “toxic masculinity” they are really attempting to reframe our whole culture so that men are responsible actors accountable for their own choices, while women are helpless victims who cannot be held responsible for theirs, but can instead pass that responsibility onto men. And it’s patriarchy that infantilizes women, is it?
Lovely. As an adult woman perfectly capable of making my own choices and living with the consequences of those choices, just like all the other adults around me must do, I’d really appreciate it if feminists would stop trying to “help me”.
I have my own five year old to deal with. I don’t care to be treated like one myself.
No thanks.
Lots of love,
JB
judgybitch 
Word. Well said. Your theory is solid, in my estimation.
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Actually, about is traditionally to be a MAN in Spain.
I can find several types.
1. The “hidalgo”: The low range aristocrat who use to live in villages. Mainly in central Spain, in the plateau. This guy has a strict and somtimes demodé code of honour. For the hidalgo, his honour is placed between the legs of a particular woman.
Vg: Don Quijote de La Mancha.
2. The “john”. In this country, since the Middle Ages, brothels are like mushrooms in autumm. Being a proper “john” is part of the cultue of any Spaniard. It si a pity last couple of decades are incresing the number of feminists (including men) and “john shaming”.
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Spot on. I’m always shocked when I hear about how pussy-crazed men are supposed to be. What women fail to realize is that men are used to going months and years without pussy. Even the dreamy types of guys have to expend a lot of time and money to get pussy, so we can’t really afford to be addicted to it. It’s not the sole purpose for our existence by any measure.
I think more men are waking up to the notion that women, in general, just aren’t worth the trouble. Run a cost-benefit analysis and women always seem to come up short.
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Women are not worth it. But pussy yes.
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It depends on how you get it. In the story, things happen rather fast and there’s no real involvement between the man and woman other than just boinking. That’s cool. No more than getting a hooker for an hour of fun.
But to actually date a woman in the hopes of getting some in a week or two, or whenever she decides to move the dance forward, if ever? Enduring hours of senseless conversation, spending hard-earned money on dinner and movies, replying to her imbecilic texts…. ugh. Not worth it.
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Again with the “mindless dickbot” routine. Again, with the rape fantasies, not from men, but from women. These feminists have fetishized rape to the point to where it is entirely inconceivable that man wouldn’t rape them at the drop of a hat if given the opportunity. My, how it would crush their world view to know that most of us wouldn’t touch them with a monkey’s member, much less risk everything we own, including our own freedom and reputation, just to have them.
How awesome it must be to assume that you are literally so irresistible that men would throw away everything that they are just for a chance to be with you.
I also like the clear dilemma hinted at here and anytime a feminist posts about this nonsense. On one hand, a man is a simpering little worm if he isn’t confident and able to take charge in the relationship and in bed, but on the other, if he IS confident and DOES take charge, then he’s a rapist.
Worm, or rapist?
Talk about your false choices. It’s almost like they’re purposely rigging the game so that men are scum no matter what happens. Huh… I wonder…
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on the few (<6) occasions i have turned it down i have found that the women pretty much lose their minds, either becoming aggressive or try and amp it up even more.
It is almost the ultimate insult to a women's self esteem, whereas us guys are used to the rejection, God help us if our main ingredient for masculinity was getting laid.
excellent article by the way JB
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Just to make one thing clear – mindless dickbot I am not.
I’ve been faithful to the same woman for 15 years now, through thick and thin, and even through times when her sex drive was non-existent and I wasn’t getting any quality sex for months at a time. It wasn’t easy, and there were multiple times when I was faced with massive temptation. Women don’t routinely throw themselves at me, but it happens at least once a year on average that a woman wants to get jiggy with it and I have to tell her no.
Why do I do this? Because my sense of dignity and honor greatly outweighs my desire to wet my willy. I couldn’t live with the dishonor and lack of dignity that messing around behind my wife’s back would bring with it. I couldn’t live with myself if I lied like that.
So this woman who wrote this is as wrong as she could possibly be, at least if she’s talking about me.
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http://www.returnofkings.com/31859/women-cant-handle-rejection?ModPagespeed=noscript
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I am open-minded enough to acknowledge those guys who might not be ready (i.e., not physically mature for the “light to come on”) or are being imposed upon by someone they don’t like/ who aren’t attractive.
But the Bill Maher sketch is funny from my perspective of so-called “coerced boys”. In my high school there was the cutest little French teacher with long dark hair and a winning face and figure. You could tell she was walking down the hall by spotting the posse of hulking football players surrounding her at all times, all of them “dying to get at her” (as the song goes) and some no doubt succeeding.
To us band dweebs those gaggles of guys were the luckiest fucks on earth. Today in our helicopter world they would all be poor pathetic victims, and the teacher would be profiled on Nancy Grace as an eeeebil woooman, and jailed besides. Maybe the poor little boys would haz a SAD and be prescribed Xanax. Fine with me so long as they bring enough for the rest of the class.
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This quote sums it up for me:
“Agreeing to have sex (being coerced) even when you really don’t want to might be a bad decision, but it’s still his decision.”
It made me think of a recent article on ‘sexual assault’ I read in the Harvard Crimson.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2014/3/31/Harvard-sexual-assault/?page=single
It’s really well written, but in the end, she goes along with a guy wanting to have sex with her, then blames him:
“I stopped everything and turned my back to him, praying he would leave me alone. He started getting impatient. “Are you only going to make me hard, or are you going to make me come?” he said in a demanding tone.
It did not sound like a question. I obeyed.”
In her words, she obeyed. The very word infers her own sexual agency in the decision.
Again, another case of people doing dumb shit when they are fucked up…and the guy getting blamed.
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the results from this study can provide a language for young men to describe sexually coercive experiences and acknowledge that males can be victims of coercion by females, which can begin
to challenge notions of traditional masculinity and of hypersexuality.
When feminists peddle their “rape culture” and “toxic masculinity” they are really attempting to reframe our whole culture so that men are responsible actors accountable for their own choices, while women are helpless victims who cannot be held responsible for theirs, but can instead pass that responsibility onto men. And it’s patriarchy that infantilizes women, is it?
Well, this is the crux that most of your posts come down to, and nothing drives a feminist up the wall and around the bend than the suggestion that feminism is “rights without responsibilities.” They have to be invested in the narrative that men are responsible for rape, assault, violence, and the general “oppression” of women, therefore, nothing can ever be a woman’s fault.
A couple of weeks ago, I commented on a CNN article about feminism becoming popular again specifically noting the reproductive rights argument that we’re familiar with here about women’s choice/men’s responsibility. The results were typical. The usual argument was trotted out that men have the choice to keep their pants zipped and my usual response that this is the choice offered by anti-abortion activists, sauce for the goose & gander and all that. Not a single feminists that I engaged on that thread (and there were several) would address the issue and when I remained focused on it despite their attempts to derail and change the subject, they resorted to denial, dismissal, and personal attacks.
I often wonder–what with the massive tension caused by the cognitive dissonance over the giant black hole of irony that is at the center of feminism–how these people function day to day.
But my favorite comment on that Jezzziebel thread: men are why other men can’t be fully human…
Yeah, you savage brutes!
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Some women can handle rejection in some circumstances (though they’ll usually find a man to blame somewhere), this is one place that hits them at the deepest level of their souls.
For once she has made the decision to open up to you, a lowly man, her Gates of the Golden Dawn, it is inconceivable that anyone could ever her exotic mysteries.
Over the years, I’ve turned down especially aggressive women who have made their intentions clear (such as verbally expressing them or grabbing my crotch) just to watch their faces. Yes, I have a small mean streak in me…
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I haven’t found this to be the case. The women I’ve turned down mostly acted embarrassed and seemed to wish that they hadn’t asked in the first place.
Never had one get angry with me. That being said, I ussually have a pretty good excuse:
“I’m married” is a way of saying “it isn’t you, it’s me” and letting her off the hook desirability-wise.
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A while back, I had noticed that over the years, my interest in sex & women had been in gradual & steady decline. I came to the conclusion that it was just part of the aging process. Later, an opportunity came up to visit Eastern Europe. WOW, I felt like a teenager again. Seriously, the surge that I felt in mental and physical attraction and response toward the women there (who were wonderful – in both femininity and very attractive) made me realize… that back home (Australia), there’s so little to get excited about. So many frumpy, rude, self-entitled & overweight women… and then there’s the daily barrage of feminism everywhere & emasculating media. I can’t even walk down the street and make eye contact with a woman without getting some kind of sour response (a sneer, grimace, rolling of the eyes, etc) where she appears to think that I’m interested in her sexually whereas most of the time I just happen to be looking in that direction.
As an aside, I have wondered why there’s only one perspective that’s socially considered -i.e. ‘Why are men are so sexual’. Wouldn’t it be just as valid to question ‘Why are women so frigid’?
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If female sadism is celebrated then so should yours. Plenty of women go out together dressed to the nines specifically to engage in the “sport” of rejection. Men can most certainly do it too just watch out for rejected hellions with sharp weapons. Not sure how it got to be PC for women to be chastity-dominatrices and men to be guilt-ridden grovelers but if you really want to stir up a public venue try staging the exact reverse dynamic, just don’t get arrested–both of you. She’ll be denied of her own agency to consent and you’ll be an “abuser” or worse. Ask me how I know this.
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Word. This is what honour is all about.
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JB,
I found your site last night after an evening of bored link clicking and have loved it enough that I think it’s going to replace a blog I was reading but have become disenchanted with. So I come here trained in science and being particularly annoying as someone who tests hypotheses for how well they stand up to hard scrutiny, so bear that in mind with regards to the following, I am not being dismissive I am making sure the hypothesis is valid. I am curious therefore if you or any of the researchers have considered the possibility of untrue survey responses. With regards to the issue of what do men use to identify masculinity, is there a possibility of social desirability bias in the responses? In other words is it possible they are giving “pat” answers instead of what they think? Regarding the initial study is it possible that a significant segment of the respondents gave the answers they did because they were as incredulous as Mr. Maher was that they were even being asked and so were deriding the survey with “stupid” answers? I am known to snark respond to survey’s if I think they are asking stupid questions, so I expect that others do as well. That all said, I think your hypothesis is a good one even if there is social desirability bias or snark factor in the survey results.
Thank you for being awesome,
Jason
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“seduction coercion”
Puh-lese. Nobody can “seduce” an adult who doesn’t want to be.
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Since its relevant, from your blog about the Sugar Babies in Miami;
“Really, when you consider the blatant exploitation of MEN that goes on these relationships, it’s rather curious that feminists don’t stand up to applaud Sugar Babies. ”
How is it “exploitation” when those men go on those sites looking to pay these women to be their sugar babies in the first place?
Its a fair trade, mutually agreed upon.
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“As an aside, I have wondered why there’s only one perspective that’s socially considered -i.e. ‘Why are men are so sexual’. Wouldn’t it be just as valid to question ‘Why are women so frigid’?”
Ter, you’ve answered these questions in your own comment before you ever asked them. Just as you are frigid toward Australian women but warm and sexual toward EE women, similarly, there are men out there those sour-faces you pass in the street are warm and sexual toward.
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Ha! Ha! Speaking of “seduction”… look what the “cat” just dragged in;
“Attention! If you are a moderately attractive male that was born between 1985 and 1993: I’d like to tap that ass. ”
From: It Happened to Me: I’m a PUMA.
http://www.xojane.com/sex/pumatown-usa-population-me
Continuing on…
“Let’s do a quick clarification: Pumas, apparently, are distinctly different from cougars (unlike their animal world counterparts). Not only is there one feline term for women over 40 who date young, there is ANOTHER feline term for women in their 20s and 30s who date young. Because obviously we need two terms for this insanity, right?”
……”Imagine taking Ryan Gosling and polishing him down briefly with a belt sander. This is essentially what you’re getting in a college-age man.”
She does have a point.
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Okay, how do you know this ;-D
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women are the worst rapists of all.
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In my country you can find plenty of big street adds, from the Goverment (pressed by the feminist lobby) targeted to “johns” with the slogan: “Tan poco vales que tienes que pagar?” (“You are so worthless that you have to pay for it?”) And my instinctive answer, in my mind, to that question is. “Yes, I am, I know I am pathetic creep, but let me have fun, please”.
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The only women who ever threw themselves at me, and made it clear that sex was the objective, were all women that I wouldn’t ever approach. I’m no heartthrob, so the immediate ego thrill is seriously distracting. Some were very pretty, but there was something about them that didn’t appeal to me. I only accepted one such offer, and imagine how quickly the relationship changed once I’d gotten caught up in the Venus Flytrap!
I vowed never again! Take it slow and let the relationship grow. Ended up getting married, and imagine how quickly the relationship changed once I’d gotten caught up in the Venus Flytrap enhanced with legal obligations and restrictions!
I vowed never again!
Bottom line (pun intended), any woman who offers sex always wants something and expects to convince your lower head to provide it.
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Response bias (sometimes called the Hawthorne effect) is always a problem with these kinds of surveys. There is no real way to correct for it, other than to increase your sample size and make sure it’s random. 27 000 is a pretty big n.
No doubt, a younger cohort might put sexual validation slightly ahead on the survey, but if the questions were worded in such a way that the focus was on internal versus external defining factors, then maybe not?
Of course, then you have a problem with confirmation bias.
It’s tricky, to be certain. But I’m intuitively happier with multi-nation, large cohort studies like these ones.One way or another, you hardly see male positive results reported in the MSM which will happily report 100% of women in a survey were raped with a sample size of 1. Okay, maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but you know what I mean. Even when positive results are reported they usually get a spin to make them seem less than positive.
Glad you have a science background. I don’t. My advanced research experience is all in the realm of business – strategy, entrepreneurship and innovation, in particular. I understand the rudimentary, but not a whole lot beyond that. I have enough knowledge to understand explanations, which is good enough for me.
So welcome. And don’t be afraid to pick apart data misinterpretations or oversimplifications! I’m pretty good with intelligent criticism.
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You don’t know what you’re talking about.
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“Bottom line (pun intended), any woman who offers sex always wants something and expects to convince your lower head to provide it.”
There are men out there whom women not only desire sex with but are willing to pay for it in some way as well. These men are not common, but they do exist and there is an industry built around their raw sexual appeal that speaks to a woman’s primal drives.
The guy in the first part of the video explains this appeal quite well (if you can look past his big cat g-string)
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“The man wakes up and thinks “Well that was stupid. I’m not doing that again.”
The woman wakes up and thinks, “Oh my god, I’ve been raped!”
It comes down to agency.”
Actually, most women who have regrettable sex do not wake up and claim they were raped. Most wake up and think, “that was stupid” just like your imaginary man above. While clearly, there are some wacko women who make false rape claims, most regrettable sex does not end with a false rape claim, not 75%, not 50%, not even 25%. No most regrettable sex ends as nothing more than that, regrettable sex.
As far as this study goes… it’s simply a poor study, just like some of the poor studies that Feminists point to as making some bold point when, in reality, the study was so poorly done that its results should be ignored. For instance, a type of sexual coercion according to the study was, “Internal Obligation” where no pressure comes from his sex partner, instead he pressured himself to have sex. Really? This is laughable. Also “seduction” can be seen as sexual coercion pursuant to this study. If a man were to come home one evening and find a diner of filet over mashed potato on the dining room table with his wife standing behind the head chair with only a pair of five-inch hooker heels on and a fork ready to serve him in every way he wanted to be served, why he is being sexually coerced…. When you truly think about it… just about everything other than asking a potential partner from a reasonable personal space distance with all your clothing on, before dinner and cocktails, not after that would be “substance coercion” whether they would like to have sex amounts to some form of sexual coercion. This study is just stupid.
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No more stupid than most of the 1 in 4 women will be raped studies. The Mary Koss one is especially egregious.
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Your point is valid as stated, however the statistic I would be more interested in isn’t how many women have regrettable sex and claim rape but rather the percentage of women who claim rape or sexual assault (either by filing a police report or by becoming part of a sex assault counseling program) who are actually experiencing regret about having sex. Let us also assume we are only looking at instances where there is no evidence of drugging or violent coercion.
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Actually, the study JB cites isn’t stupid so much as it focuses on adolescents and “emerging adults” (WTF?) who are apparently college students. Adolescents aren’t adults and can be subject to “coercion” that might not pertain to adults (though feminists will sure try to apply them to adult women, whom they want to infantilize).
But I do agree that most women who have sex they regret do not claim they were raped, or even think they were raped. (Feminists, of course, want to change this, asserting that the poor dears just aren’t “educated” or “aware” enough to know when they’ve been raped, so the feminists will do it for them.)
And it’s the Koss study that JB mentions that shows the truth of this. One of the ways Koss could manufacture her “1-in-4” number was to include a question about sex while intoxicated, which generated a significant number of positive responses. However, of the women who responded to that question, 75% said they didn’t think they’d been raped and most of them put the “regret” down to “miscommunication.”
Of course, Koss dismissed the lived experience of these women, assuming their agency for them, and included them in her calculations of women who have been “raped.” And now most national surveys (both Justice Department and CDC) include such questions and assume that “unwanted” sex where a woman is intoxicated counts as rape.
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“No more stupid than most of the 1 in 4 women will be raped studies.”
Doesn’t that include children who will be molested? If so, its feasible.
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Agreed. Both parties enter the situation with their eyes wide open. No one is being taken advantage of, and everyone involved knows the score.
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Dear All: Yet another informative and thoughtful writing by JB. FYI. Mark.
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 15:25:43 +0000 To: mark_waldie@hotmail.com
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As a woman I can’t even count the times I have received unwanted attention from a male of all ages. Rude sexual comments at work and the store, hooting and whistling out of car doors. If I’m going running and I pass a group of males I immediately know to turn my head phones up. And it has nothing to do with dressing provocatively because I don’t. I wear tight fitting shorts when exercising because I’m sweating my ass off and if I wear loose shorts they ride up my hips. But regardless, as long as I’m not walking around in lingerie I shouldn’t feel bad about feeling and looking good.
And if a woman makes sexual advances she’s trying to show interest (yes, maybe sexually) but most often she is not turned down, and if he doesn’t want to he can say no thank you.
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I don’t see why this isn’t true for both sexes though? Why is it that it can’t be the case that both sexes can brush off unwanted sexual advances, and be concerned about advances which are unrelenting or otherwise more worrisome?
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Go on then, how do you know this. Did you have sex with a man and then some feminist accused him of rape on your behalf?
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“Asian participants reported significantly lower rates of sexual coercion ”
Ahhh, Asian women. You gotta love ’em. They don’t need to be coerced.
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