Why didn’t the Hilton report death threats? I have no idea.

3 Jun

Update:  due to a clause in our contract, we removed the letter.  More information will be coming. 

Both the Detroit Free Press and the Detroit News have front page stories about the International Conference on Men’s Issues that contain some troubling information.  When reporters contacted the police department, they learned two things, one of which came as news to those of us working to organize the conference.

From the Free Press:

A spokesman with the Detroit Police Department said he could not find any police reports of death threats and said it’s “very unusual” that police wouldn’t be contacted for a death threat.

“We’re definitely going to look into it,” said Officer Adam Madera.

He said officials with the DoubleTree contacted its the department’s secondary employment unit — which allows for businesses and other organizations to request police officers at events — but they did not specify why.

 

Of course we knew that the DoubleTree had contacted the DPD for police officers to provide extra security – we were stuck with the bill for that request.  We raised the $25 000 in less than 24 hours, as it happens, but we had no idea the Hilton had not officially reported the threats.

 

Joel Reinstein, who is hosting the protest march planned for this Saturday, left a comment at the Detroit News indicating that he believes the entire thing to be a hoax, based on the fact that the staff at the DoubleTree would not provide him with information on demand.

 

Joel Reinstein ·  Top Commenter · Michigan State University

“‘We have received numerous calls and threats and are concerned for the safety and well-being of our employees, our guests and your attendees,’ hotel officials wrote in a letter dated Thursday to Paul Elam, A Voice for Men’s founder and publisher.”

This is what “Voice for Men” say, a group that has been willing to harass and threaten feminists, hunt down and publicize personal information of its enemies, clog rape crisis hotlines, and promotes violent ideology.

This is NOT what the hotel says. This is wildly irresponsible journalism, reprinting a hate group’s press release as fact.

In fact, when first contacted, a Doubletree manager stated clearly that she had heard NOTHING of threats. She also stated that they have a specific protocol to follow in the case of any threats, and she **would have heard about it.** So “Voice for Men” are lying, again, and the Detroit News lazily made their lies fact. Disgraceful and demanding of a correction.

 

Here is the link to the letter again, with the manager’s name redacted to prevent that individual from being harassed.

 

http://www.avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/05/AVFM-Security-Letter-REDACTED.pdf

 

We have no idea at the moment if the Hilton intends to pursue a formal complaint with police although I personally would like to see that happen because surely the phone records from the hotel will reveal the source of the calls?  I don’t know, but based on my extensive experience watching Law & Order, I would think that could happen.  I would be very interested to see just who made those calls.

 

I wonder if Joel Reinstein’s number would show up?

 

Here are the facts:  the Hilton did indeed send a letter indicating threats were made sufficient to request 24 hr police presence for the entire duration of the conference.  There is no record of the Hilton making a formal complaint to the police.  Those are the two things we know for certain.

 

Everything else is speculation, but I will personally be keeping readers up to date on what is happening.

 

And for those who donated to the remarkable campaign to pay those officers – THANK YOU!

 

thank you

Lots of love,

JB

 

58 Responses to “Why didn’t the Hilton report death threats? I have no idea.”

  1. Anon June 3, 2014 at 15:48 #

    Perhaps AVfM should request the hotel release an official statement? To clear the air. Or maybe the official who signed the letter from Double Tree could give their permission to have their name released? We should strive to be as transparent as possible.

    Like

  2. judgybitch June 3, 2014 at 15:49 #

    That’s a good idea. I will pass it along. We got the insurance for the hotel and we are now scrambling to find someone who will write us a policy for the police, so it might not be at the top of the priority list.

    Like

  3. Jeremy June 3, 2014 at 16:14 #

    A spokesman with the Detroit Police Department said he could not find any police reports of death threats and said it’s “very unusual” that police wouldn’t be contacted for a death threat.

    That, right there, is a joke. Especially in Destroit.

    Like

  4. Steve June 3, 2014 at 16:16 #

    This problem is a direct result of the hotel management. Either they got threats and didn’t tell the cops or they’re extorting security fees through lies. The author of the letter needs to answer for this.
    Unless you don’t want to piss them off for fear of them concealing the conference?

    Like

  5. Steve June 3, 2014 at 16:22 #

    cancelling not concealing the conference (edit)

    Like

  6. Wraith June 3, 2014 at 16:31 #

    Death threats are serious business. Either:

    1) the Hilton gets off their butt and cooperates with the PD,

    2) they’re Just That Stupid, thereby opening themselves up to an enormous lawsuit, or

    3) someone’s pulling a scam–either to acquire currency, or to cripple the MRC for purposes unknown but pretty easy to figure out.

    This stinks like the aftermath of a White Castle binge. Keep us posted.

    Like

  7. Scatmaster (@Scatmaster) June 3, 2014 at 16:35 #

    Seems to me (IMO) that perhaps someone at the Hilton knows someone in the DPD who needs some overtime. Just saying.

    Like

  8. Keanu June 3, 2014 at 17:16 #

    Just came across this gem of a meme on facebook: http://www.policymic.com/articles/90079/31-men-show-us-what-real-men-s-rights-activists-look-like

    Like

  9. caprizchka June 3, 2014 at 17:27 #

    The Hilton would perhaps be disinclined to discourage other guests from registering during the conference. As for the extra police presence, I would venture that educating the police on what the MHRA looks like is a worthy effort–expensive but worthy. Meanwhile, putting undue pressure on the Hilton might have the unfortunate result of discouraging Hilton and other hotels from hosting MHRA events. It would seem to me however that a private discussion between all parties would be more effective than an internet one. Please forgive the irony.

    Like

  10. Pierson June 3, 2014 at 17:30 #

    While this is a bit OT, it’s still something I think you folks would be interested in: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-uncomfortable-truths-behind-mens-rights-movement/

    Like

  11. caprizchka June 3, 2014 at 17:31 #

    If you’d like my bias on the matter, I approve that the Hilton still provides some smoking hotels rather than caving to the fascist, WHO efforts to eradicate smoking from the world. This would seem to me to be anti-fascist behavior worthy of encouragement. Similarly, allowing the MHRA to meet at their hotel is an anti-fascist statement. I rest my case.

    Like

  12. Steve June 3, 2014 at 18:26 #

    I smoke in hotel rooms anyway…..

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Isaac T. Quill June 3, 2014 at 18:58 #

    I keep seeing the same question being asked “Why have death threats not been reported to the police?”.

    Fi erst so many are amusing that journalist have spoken to the RIGHT people who can answer the questions – and basic analysis of text shows that it hasn’t happened.

    AS to the none reporting of death threats, the answer is simple – they have not been judged credible, but the business is obliged to act in such a way as to ensure should there be any possibility of follow through they have acted in such a way as to reduce litigation liability. I have dealt with this very issue since the 1990’s and police (in Europe Anyway) only act on a Credible threat – a vague report of a vague phone call is not seen as credible. Even deranges nutters follow well known patterns that show credability.

    Phoning up, making a nebulous death threat and shifting massive financial obligation onto others is a very old trick – and one well known to those in the field of Business Liability and Indemnity. It’s called pass the buck and make an insurer have liability.

    The only other explanation that holds any water is that the person who has made report of Death Threats is a feminist plant within DoubleTree/Hilton or a unionised member who has been Knobbled by others and become convinced that they should make False Report from a position of privilege and opportunity to obstruct the conference. It is far less likely but I’ve seen it happen.

    I’d advise that worthless “Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc” analysis is a waste of resources (time, energy, focus) and needs to be stopped Pronto. It also diverts from what the opposition are planning next which is where the focus should be … the future and advance and not looking over shoulders.

    What comes next (given that the hurdle of finacial failure has been so promptly side stepped)? Easy – they are on a disinformation roll, using any scarp of tosh to misdirect, so I would prepare solid arguments to respond and leave the past game analysis until after the conference.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Magnus June 3, 2014 at 20:03 #

    I don’t know, if they require actuall police pressense then it’s the police that end up with the money.
    So the hotel wouldn’t benefit much from that.
    And based on previous actions taken against MHRM gatherings it is also highly likely that there have been actual threats.
    It might just have been that someone vented for the managers that MHRM gatherings often result in protests… but I doubt that would make them go to these extream measures.

    Either way I agree there should be some form of statement from the hotel, it’s in everyone best interest (other than the feminist protesters though :P)

    Like

  15. Tyler June 3, 2014 at 21:07 #

    The obvious next move for them would be to paint this as a ploy by the event organizers to scam money. Cause that’s what it’ll look like to anyone that doesn’t already trust MRAs.

    Like

  16. judgybitch June 3, 2014 at 21:08 #

    Already happening, Tyler. In another 48 hours, a lot more will be clear.

    Like

  17. Alex June 3, 2014 at 21:10 #

    i had thought about mentioning that article earlier today, now it seems someone beat to me it. for future readers, please note that JF Sargent seems to have gotten most of his info from Reddit, and doesn’t look like satire.

    Like

  18. JBfan June 3, 2014 at 22:24 #

    Word of warning. The MRA community looks like it is heading for the public sphere and awareness. Once the MRA community reaches the mainstream public conscience (and even reaches old media such as TV news), there is going to be hell to pay, guaranteed. Lambasting from public figures, further debates and arguments in the media, further insults and taunting, slanderous and libellous accusations of rape threats and death threats, possibly threats coming your own way or even violence itself.

    Be prepared.

    Like

  19. TMG June 3, 2014 at 23:11 #

    Sick to my stomach already. I feel like we’re getting played by Hilton management.

    Like

  20. judgybitch June 3, 2014 at 23:12 #

    We are, but don’t think the Hilton are the only players in the game, TMG.

    Like

  21. Ter June 3, 2014 at 23:39 #

    I can’t help but wonder what sort of public response there would be if the situation was reversed – i.e. if a women’s issues conference had received threats and demands of money for security from hotels. I’m sure it would have made front page news across the western world along with the mandatory street marches (like Slut Walks).

    Like

  22. tz2026 June 4, 2014 at 01:42 #

    DO NOT use off duty Detroit Police. Use private security or suburban police.

    I have no respect for those who give in to feminist extortion
    Less to those who give into political crony corruption.

    I thought real mwn (and real women) were tough enough to handle themselves. Against violent protesters,uch less gamma hotel management drones.

    Like

  23. Pierson June 4, 2014 at 02:11 #

    Between Reddit, the liberal sociology professor, and the former neo-Nazi, this bloke seems to have iffy judgment when it comes to credible sources for studying a culture. Funny enough, see how far you get if you try to use the same tactics for critiquing feminism. Really, I will personally deliver home-baked cookies to anyone who at least tries

    Like

  24. Incubus June 4, 2014 at 03:13 #

    It’s a fair argument that the Hilton doesn’t want bad publicity. But it’s not at all professional of them to insist we remove the letter so it looks to our opponents like we’re lying, and then not call the police or issue a statement about this.

    Paul Elam may feel that they’ve been professional and courteous, but I would argue there’s nothing professional or courteous about giving us only one week to secure $25,000. It’s not like they would have been likely to secure a competing deal with another conference in just the few weeks after that. Everything about this looks to me like they’ve provided us the courtesy and professionalism that’s required while doing everything in their power to keep us from having this.

    It also occurs to me that if the Hilton were now to deny that they received any threats, that would be an excellent way to destroy this movement, as many loyal followers would now feel they had been duped and ripped off by Paul Elam. I’m curious to know if anyone has contacted the Hilton to confirm that they did, indeed, send that letter.

    Like

  25. kyonko802 June 4, 2014 at 06:33 #

    It’s gonna hurt, but it’ll be worth it.

    Like

  26. Isaac T. Quill June 4, 2014 at 09:31 #

    The Conspiracy Theories are Flying – it gets amazing to see just how inventive some can be. From forgery to fraud and supposedly MHRA’s using helium to have a high pitched voice to phone in Faux threats posing as Andrea Dworkin. It will be interesting when some quality media hacks get to work and leave the farcebook generation to keep the deluded spaghetti monster flying.

    Like

  27. Paul Murray June 4, 2014 at 10:33 #

    “Here are the facts: the Hilton did indeed send a letter indicating …”
    No, what you know for certain is that *you received* a letter (on what appears to be hilton letterhead) indicating …”
    Not quite the same thing.

    Like

  28. Alex June 4, 2014 at 12:05 #

    at least there were a couple who weren’t so misinformed making comments on how misinforming the article was. could’ve been an epic satire of feminism though

    Like

  29. judgybitch June 4, 2014 at 13:16 #

    Paul, there were six signed letters delivered by courier from the Doubletree to various staff members all with signatures. Give it another day and it will all be clear.

    Like

  30. Steve June 4, 2014 at 15:06 #

    This comment/communication was needed. Thank you. Being stuck out here in cyberland with feminist, is torture………

    Like

  31. redpillgirlnotes June 4, 2014 at 16:23 #

    Lots to do I am sure but you guys are doing great! Hopefully the Hilton will both explain and then cooperate w filing charges so a proper investigation can be done and whoever is responsible hopefully caught before the event. Stay the course… Namaste!

    Like

  32. Ferrum Itzal June 4, 2014 at 16:53 #

    Jeez that was awful! It’s amazing that they want people to believe tripe like that, and worse that there are so many weak and effeminate men. I think there was only one guy on that entire thing that actually looked masculine. Shameful days.

    Like

  33. Riku June 4, 2014 at 18:04 #

    Hey Janet,
    please promise to keep us up to date with articles on avfm or videos posted here. I think you owe that much to all the donors, and all the conspiracy theories out there are really disturbing… I hate not knowing what’s going on. Please give us a heads up asap 🙂

    Like

  34. Riku June 4, 2014 at 18:08 #

    Wise words. If they really had bad intentions and want to harm the movement, there would be no choice but to refund all donations and cancel the event in order to mitigate the damage to the reputation of avfm.
    I do hope for fair cooperation and communication, so that this issue gets resolved asap.

    Like

  35. Snake Oil Baron June 4, 2014 at 18:56 #

    Joel Reinstein: “This is what “Voice for Men” say, a group that has been willing to harass and threaten feminists, hunt down and publicize personal information of its enemies, clog rape crisis hotlines, and promotes violent ideology.”

    Actionable?

    Like

  36. Snake Oil Baron June 4, 2014 at 20:13 #

    “obliged to act in such a way as to ensure should there be any possibility of follow through they have acted in such a way as to reduce litigation liability.”

    I would have thought part of that obligation would be to report the threats. If the police want to not consider it serious they at least have a record of the occurrence so that if there is an incident they have an extra line of inquiry. If they wanted to protect themselves from liability they should take this minimum act of responsibility.

    Like

  37. Snake Oil Baron June 4, 2014 at 20:30 #

    I’ll get my “this world makes me want to barf” bucket ready. Somehow I doubt that having everything cleared up will keep the damage from being done. Spin can do amazing things to facts.

    Like

  38. Aldir Gracindo June 5, 2014 at 02:16 #

    This is one of the things I thought in this whole thing. Why the police seemed not to be involved, investigating the death threats? Well, let’s see how that will be clafified. We want to know WHO are the authors of the threats.

    Like

  39. Guber June 5, 2014 at 05:10 #

    I think the hotel is under pressure. Feminist hysteria is mainstream orthodoxy. They want to get rid of us. The feminazis are making a lot of noise and like any good Nazi compliant entity, they are scared. So they try the trick to get rid of us by slamming additional fees on. Feminazis were all hahaha. And then when we got the donations in just 24 hours they got very upset. This is why now the Feminazis are escalating their vitriol. And all the usual leftist press is in this. Waiting for the next move. Keep calm and carry on.

    Like

  40. Pierson June 5, 2014 at 06:52 #

    Thank goodness for the wisdom of the crowds. That’s hardly a constant, unfortunately, so it’s good to raise awareness of things so misleading. Good to see that these folks aren’t above milking a tragedy for all it’s worth

    Like

  41. Michelle June 5, 2014 at 12:23 #

    While I do think the threats are genuine there is a simple solution that I have yet to see anyone else say. Maybe the manager doesn’t want to cause a panic in other guests. The situation is being handled, through the request for more security, so what good does it do to admit to being threatened to people who aren’t involved? They aren’t required to by law and that just causes possible customers to avoid staying there and it becomes a p.r. nightmare that is directly tied to that hotel. Also managers of hotels usually love to book huge groups of people because it means less rooms to sell and guaranteed better numbers/sales. If they think there is the possibility of this being an annual thing they tend to protect that possible investment, even against the concerns of staff.

    But most hotel staff I have ever met are unphased by a lot of what customers say/do. I have personally dealt with the pot smokers, screamers, customers who will literally complain about anything (the a/c works too well, elevator is too slow, etc.), violent people/couples, or my personal favorite being threatened over the bill/rate. Every person who works in a hotel knows exactly where to look to find the number for local police, usually posted somewhere guests can’t see but is easy for employees, and know they can call 911 if the situation escalates. A decent number, in my experience, have had to call at one point or another. Usually because somebody got overly drunk and physical. For the most part though those that tend to overreact don’t last long so you end up with a group that usually don’t care any further about what happens than what they think their paycheck entitles them to. Not that they don’t care at all or won’t handle a situation, just that for the most part after a year you have seen a lot, sort of like cops except with less violence.

    Another possibility is that maybe, highly unlikely, some of the staff including the manager are people who are against this conference. With bookings bigger than 5-10 rooms most hotels have a director of sales, or something similar, that books them and they generally don’t say anything about them until the reservation is agreed to at which point no one on staff can say no unless the group booking it does something. So in that case it may be booked and then someone on the staff found out and is against it may have tried to sabotage it. Like I said highly unlikely because if they are found out that means their job and credibility. For a lot of people in that industry that is their one real means of supporting themselves and it isn’t worth risking something like your job for personal feelings.

    Having worked in the hotel industry tells me most of the whole “people are being scammed” idea is, for lack of a better of a word, moronic. Nothing adds up from a logical standpoint except protesters calling in the threats. Why would anyone involved in the MRM need to do this? Feminists have shown themselves to be capable of this and more through their other protests of the MRM. Just wait and they will eventually prove it again with this conference. It is feminists that are protesting against the conference online and they are the ones saying things there that are either direct or inferred threats. So in this I think I need to invoke Occam’s Razor.
    1)Nobody has a decent motive to do this except for the protesters. (An MRA who did this would have had to realize that a couple of possibilities were likely. The conference gets cancelled in which case it helps feminism. The other possibility is they would get caught and once outed it would help feminism.)
    2)It’s also known that the MRM doesn’t have government backing, so it is the people backing this monetarily. (Hit them in the pocketbook, even if they didn’t known about the security it can reasonably deduced it would cost more to move the conference)
    3)Scare tactics are a known way feminists handle certain situations.
    4)A number of recent talks for the MRM have been protested by feminists and they have turned violent. (UoT anyone?)
    5)Feminists have shown a manipulative tactic of divide and conquer. The language used is evidence of that. (It even wasn’t mentioned that an MRA could have done it until a feminists proposed it. This should speak volumes)
    All of these point to one simple conclusion. Unless more information is presented that modifies one or more of the above, everything is mere speculation.

    Like

  42. judgybitch June 5, 2014 at 12:37 #

    Michelle, thank you for an insider view of how the hotel might be handling the threats. There is still no official statement from the hotel, although privately they have claimed the police were notified which means the police are what? Lying?

    Like

  43. Poetentiate June 5, 2014 at 16:43 #

    You know that the term feminazi works against you. It makes the user of the term look like a kook instead of making your readers think that feminists are like nazis/fascists, which I agree they are.

    Like

  44. feeriker June 5, 2014 at 19:56 #

    …although privately they have claimed the police were notified which means the police are what? Lying?

    Cops lie??!! Why, perish the thought! Never in a million years! How dare you even insinuate such a thing! /sarcasm

    Like

  45. Chris Wedge June 5, 2014 at 22:34 #

    Yeah, because we all have an inalienable human right to fill the air with particulates that get into everyone else’s lungs for no good reason, don’t we?

    Like

  46. Steve June 5, 2014 at 23:40 #

    In all seriousness. Hotels have rooms available for smokers. Those rooms filter the “particulates” outside. You’re not getting second hand smoke. And even if ya did, the parts / billion are not going to effect you.
    Now if you really want to be exposed to “particulates”…..walk outside…

    Like

  47. caprizchka June 6, 2014 at 01:14 #

    This is not the place for that debate. Feel free to drop by my blog if your frail little lungs can handle the exertion.

    Like

  48. Incubus June 6, 2014 at 05:08 #

    I’m also eager to know what’s going on, but I also don’t want to take any time away from the people who are busy handling things as best they can right now. Since Janet has indicated that the AVFM staff is scrambling to secure everything that needs to be secured by tomorrow, and since the protest march is the day after, I have to think they’re going to be pretty busy for a while (such as, if the Hilton comes up with a flimsy excuse to break the contract or force us to break it after the protest).

    Maybe some of us should just offer our time, if there’s anything I can do. I’ll definitely be glad to volunteer my time to help ease the burden, if there’s anything that needs doing.

    Like

  49. JT June 6, 2014 at 08:50 #

    Only to people who actually are “kooks”.

    Like

  50. Goober June 6, 2014 at 18:31 #

    I don’t know… seems kind of like a tempest in a teapot to me.

    You got threatened. Big whoop. The best thing that could ever happen to forward the cause is for some idiot to get violent against an MHRA convention.

    I think that the rhetoric from both sides, and the pearl clutching about non-events from both sides, is just becoming silly as shit. From one end, you’ve got feminists clutching their pearls and claiming that they are being raped when men look at them, spewing the most hateful venom about “all men are X”, and from the other you’ve got MRAs clutching their pearls because a couple of admittedly disarmed and demonstrably harmless leftist pantywaists threatened them, all while spewing the most hateful venom about how “all women are Y”… I’m about done with it all.

    My reaction if some disarmed-by-his-own-admission leftist pantywaist threatened me? Name the time. Or don’t. Your choice. I’m ready either way.

    This blog used to talk about common sense, and the inability of people to see through the smokescreen to find the truth. It still does, but this post, and all of this talk about this non-event, were just simply so much more smoke screen.

    The only thing worth discussing is the cost of the police detail. That’s extortion. The hotel said they wanted a detail. The MRA convention should have made it clear that they didn’t want one. If one was provided at that point, that’s on the hotel. Don’t pay the bill. Tell them to go fuck themselves. Problem solved.

    Like

  51. judgybitch June 6, 2014 at 18:47 #

    It would be awesome if it were that easy. Unfortunately we signed a contract that we can’t afford to default on. I’m not personally concerned about threats – this is the internet and everyone threatens to kill everyone else all the time ho hum business as usual.

    But it turned into a $25 000 problem. That’s the problem.

    And a simple “go fuck yourselves” is not going to solve it.

    Like

  52. Goober June 6, 2014 at 21:28 #

    But that $25,000 isn’t your problem unless you agreed to pay it, as a condition of holding the event or some such. That’s the point I’m trying to make. The hotel did that on their own accord, right? You didn’t ask for it. You didn’t agree to it.

    So why are YOU on the hook for it?

    They lose this all day. I meant what I said. This is as simple as just telling them to go fuck themselves.

    Like

  53. judgybitch June 6, 2014 at 21:42 #

    The contract had a security clause the hotel triggered. If we don’t meet the demands we are in default. I have no idea if such clauses are standard, but that was the contract that got signed.

    Like

  54. Mark June 7, 2014 at 01:21 #

    Not related, but you should write a blog post about the Seattle shooting. A kid (male of course) named Jon Meis I think disarmed the shooter while he was reloading and probably saved any number of lives. Likely feminists will be silent on this example of male selflessness and courage and the virtues of masculinity despite their attacks on it after Santa Barbara. Never hurts to publicly point out their hypocrisy.

    Like

  55. Brian Boru June 7, 2014 at 09:36 #

    Actionable? Good point. I’d sue the pants off the lying runt if he said anything like that about me. He’d never do it again.

    Like

  56. shagan1962 June 8, 2014 at 00:40 #

    The letter was certified? So just follow the postmark to it’s origin. Or at this point, tell the Hilton to fuck off. Sue for damages and reschedule the conference on the National Mall in Washington DC

    Like

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