Debate, if you can call it that, starts at 6PM EST.
Watched to the 20 minute mark and couldn’t waste my time anymore. Matt Binder is an IDIOT.
I see Paul Elam just taking it easy with this kid he just does not want to kill this kid spirite everything that came out of this punk kid mouth kept going to something he just red some where but not informing himself about what ever he must have looked up this young punk just bored the hell out me he should not even be behind any microphone he needs to educate himself so much on what is going on other wise he should just keep his mouth shut before he damages himself more
I have to say that the kid actually made a few reasonable points. The “Stop and Frisk” laws are sexist being nearly exclusively executed against men. This is not some thing that I’ve seen talked about by MRA. Also he did make an almost valid point about not organizing protests and rallies about treatment of men in prison. This is an issue that other organizations even feminist organizations could support as mens rights issues, but we are not doing it. Overall the kid made a fool out of himself but there where a few points that he did really make.
Haven’t the time to watch it just yet, but I’d like to point out something important: When using the written word to question someone else’s intelligence, use at least some rudimentary punctuation. It doesn’t have to be perfect, in fact, in English, getting two scholars to agree entirely on correct punctuation would be a feat unto itself. Still, at least showing that you are aware that punctuation exists would go great lengths towards armoring ones self against counterclaims against your own intelligence.
Love your screen name!
Yeah, I’ve noticed that, while a lot of inconsistencies in public policy and/or social outcomes get raised by MRA’s, very few of these issues get followed up on, or taken seriously. Prisons, homelessness, poverty and mental health concerns still take a backseat to divorce law and child custody. I constantly send up Feminism for using their (biased and gendered) take on child genital mutilation to justify fighting for “more equal” (quoting Orwell here, of course) pay.
It’s actually quite saddening that, internationally, both the groups that fight for “gender equality” use one of each genders name in their respective titles, and neither seems that interested in doing anything about the very real and frightening issues they raise in order to get attention, which is sad.
I’m starting to think I’m seeing two sides of the same, sad coin, fighting for middle and upper-class privileges while constantly name-checking the plights of those less fortunate. Maybe when I was referring to Orwell earlier, I quoted from the wrong book…
You’ve got some good points here. But here’s some counterpoints.
1. There’s a factor of time frame here. Feminism has been working for a loooong time, while MRAs are still really new, relatively speaking. Not a great excuse for not getting into more proactive activism, but it is a mitigating factor. They did just have their first conference.
2. Right now, the biggest bang for vocal buck is gonna be tearing down feminism. A lot of the problem policies men currently face, and (more insidiously) the cultural norms that really suck for men, came from or were abetted by feminism. There’s a huge reservoir of anger in many men about this, because we’re getting a raw deal. Tapping into that is going to be the easiest path to recruitment and notoriety right now, and it is really easy. Feminism has overextended itself into absurdity, so all it takes to hit it hard is demonstrable facts and sound arguments.
My point here is that mainstream feminism is toxic and crazy. If we don’t address that first, we’re ignoring the low-hanging fruit, and passing up the opportunity to establish our ideological as the one more grounded in fact/reality/justice. That would be a rather large tactical mistake.
Plus, feminism currently holds the bully pulpit. We’re not gonna get anywhere until we knock them off it.
3. A lot of the raw deals men get that you’ve mentioned, which aren’t seeing much activism from MRAs, stem from cultural attitudes toward men, and that’s what current MRAs are trying to change. Is that the best way to fix those problems? That’s pretty debatable. But it is a valid way, because the zeitgeist is a powerful force in the long term, Environmentalism wasn’t even a thing in the 50s, and now it touches every part of western society. Hopefully someday every citizen will recognize the dynamic of social and gender roles in a mature way.
4. Several prominent MRAs have done actual things to help men. Erin Pizzey, anyone?
5. I would actually love to see some organized protests. Not sure how effective it would be from a long-game perspective, but it sure would be emotionally satisfying.
I cant believe that Paul didnt bring up the fact that Matt Binders 85% statistic on Domestic Violence was complete bullshit. There are hundreds of surveys which shows women are as violent if not more violent than men in DV cases.Men get arrested 85% of the time but its estimated that women are the perpetrators in most Domestic Violence cases, but they only get arrested 15% of the time.
572 different studies covering 371,600 people show women are as violent or more violent than men.
This bibliography examines 286 scholarly investigations: 221 empirical studies and 65 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 371,600. http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
More men than women were victims of intimate partner physical violence and over 40% of severe physical violence was directed at men.
My understanding is that like any activist movement, there are finite amounts of time and resources to both document injustices and attempt to do something about them. So, while you have a valid point about the stop and frisk laws, just because you aren’t aware of anyone in the MHRA movement mentioning it, doesn’t mean that people are discounting it. Just that no one has taken the time to speak about it, probably due to spending their time and resources speaking out about other injustices.
True, there is probably some selfishness and self serving about which topics do get mentioned (as the people that have a vested interest in a particular matter, such as a father that has gone through a custody battle speaking out against the courts)
I have a question for you. What sort of follow up would you like to see? Or would you expect?
My understanding, for this and a lot of other movements, is that the biggest part of the activism is getting the message out there and hopefully to get people to question their beliefs and how things are done. Sure, you can petition your legislature bodies (at the local, state and federal levels) and maybe making some headway for and against laws. But, if you go that route, there is a lot of entrenched interests working against you (chiefly that it is majority rule in a republic, so you have to do a lot of converting).
So, while a lot of what I see in the movement may come off as chest beating (either by just talking about the issues or doing an “us” vs “them” rhetoric), the authors and speakers are offering viewpoints that hopefully get people to think and maybe change their views.
Well, we’ve got a roadmap for activism, courtesy of Feminism, Gay Rights, and the environmental lobby. So far, all I see are the least helpful bits in the west, but I’ll point out exactly what I’m talking about, with a few thoughts on top:
1: Lobby politicians. It’s simple, you want laws changed, lobby politicians. Corporations and special interest groups get far more influence than they have any democratic right to through this process. It’s a loophole used by everyone who gets any power in modern “Open Democracies”. It’s a loophole that has almost 0 viability, so harms you not, and moves one’s agenda to the national, or at least local political stage.
2: Study exactly what weapons your enemy holds, then actively work against them. It’s how the octagon works, it’s how a tiny Indochinese nation is still a communist country, despite the wishes of the most powerful military on earth. Read Sun Tzu, realise that Feminism needs men, fat men, men with beards and gruff voices, men with links to tasteless articles and websites they’ve successfully campaigned to brainwash people against. So give them Karen Straugn, or find us our Ryan Gosling FFS. Actually, as much as I have a wierd bro-crush on GWW (don’t ask), I’d recommend a Gosling-figure, well vetted. If Sun Tzu can be genderswapped: Send in a manwhore. Someone with a charming manner, cute good looks. Shit, you’ve all seen the evil power of Laci Green, so let’s use that fact that we’re not the only humans to think with our genitals against them for a change.
Further with the removal of weapons: We’re a misogynist movement, according to them. Let’s turn the rocky walls of our fortress to fucking teflon, so they can’t get a grip anymore. No more using any gendered terms at all, let alone nasty ones. If we know that most of the homeless are men, then campaign for “The Homeless”. Most kids getting their genitals mutilated are boys, so campaign against “CGM” or child genital mutilation. Rather than genderswapping their rhetoric, gender-neutralise it and point out the flaws that way. Take the M off MHRM. What will they have left to attack us with but the most blatant of lies? Nothing. They got no takedown defense, and we’re not that great on out feet, so why are we fighting with their gameplan? Take their tools away and they have nothing, and expose themselves.
And what do we do then? Show mercy. Tell the world we understand they’re well meaning, good people, who unfortunately are trying to do good in ineffective ways. Their motives are pure, but unfortunately the execution needs work. Offer to help them get better. Society views an angry man as normal, yet frightening. So be that rare beacon of awesome: A gentleman. When they lose their shit in response, we’ve fucking won, but we’ll have the courtesy to look saddened by their pain 🙂
Am I getting anything across here? If all these issues are serious, then I’d imagine that stroking the egos of a few male DV recipients (like myself) is significantly less important than altering the legal systems so that DV is treated as fairly and impartially as is possible to achieve through legislation. Letting men “share their pain” through angry rants full of “99% of all women are bitches now because Feminism” may well make him feel a bit better, or at least heard, but he’s also an unsellable commodity that is actively making the enemies case against us every time he is given a place to “Have his voice heard”.
TL;DR: Own goals abound, so how about some actual strategy and tactics, rather than demanding the world just conform to your demands. Willfulness leads nowhere, skillful manipulation of the current circumstances leads to intended change. Placating of emotion can wait until we’ve stopped the system harming more people. Pick your targets, and make yourself as immune to criticism as possible.
Still too long? Cool. One question, one answer:
Q: How do you win a fight?
A: Don’t get angry, don’t get hit, don’t get careless.
Binder uses appeal to emotions and other logical fallacies in his debating tactics. These are common emotionally-driven tactics of feminist arguments. Both parties also resorted to ad hominem.
I believe that AVfM would benefit from a public relations expert because in this slick age of propaganda it is emotional appeals and media savvy that capture the most media attention. Reason and accuracy simply don’t have the curb appeal as flamboyant claims and manufactured outrage. Given that Binder made some insulting claims of women at the ICMI14 it would seem all too appropriate for such women to take him to task for them and such cannot be represented as “patriarchy”. I might suggest that an interactive video that includes clips from Binder’s video is a more effective way to dismantle such a video.
Feminists use theater and the exploitation of the deep emotional and psychological appeal of youth and femininity shamelessly. AVfM are apparently “above” such tactics to their detriment in terms of media exposure in my opinion. For what it’s worth, there is no publicity like bad publicity even if it may go against the sensibilities of reasonable men.
Perhaps Binder will go on toward a lucrative career bashing MHRA however, the MHRA could do worse in terms of having a passionate but ultimately hollow opponent who draws attention to their movement.
Reread your first two points than think about both at the same time, and answer this question: If all we’re recruiting is angry men, and Feminism holds the bully pulpit, at least partially, by exploiting and encouraging fear of angry men, and we need to get them out of the bully pulpit… Um…
Do you see the flaw here? You have two goals: Recruitment, and the elimination of the enemy’s high-ground advantage. If you could prioritise these in such a way as to not have one work against the other, that might be a good thing?
I come across so many people decrying Feminism and women being all about the “Feelz” and lacking in cold, hard, calculated logic. Damn those women and their tiny brains! Now, let us rage counterproductively, because REASONS!
Me, I care enough about these issues to remove thought about how things should be. I see how they are, and look for the most effective way(s) to alter those circumstances for the common good. It sounds harsh, but it’s how people win wars. They sacrifice their emotional wellbeing in the short to long term for the long term goal. We want people to stop harming men unjustly. We want people to not have godlike privilege in society due to accident of birth. We have to do something! Let’s stop and work out what to do.
Seriously, trying to emotionally fan the flames of the base, while recruiting those who are bitter and filled with (however understandable and justified) rage has a long and proven history of fucking ruining movements. Shit, some of the reasonable issues some 70’s Feminists did have (there were a few, but then, even a broken clock is right twice a day) were all some Feminists wanted, but they needed troops, wight? Numbers for protests and all that? So, they recruited everyone who hated men, and look where it got the sane ones…
There’s only so long you can control your blackshirts. That’s a beast you always need to feed, a stygian contract you’ll live to regret. Right now, they grasp at straws like insensitive articles with the odd harsh word, or spurious connections thrice-removed, but when the first angry dad in an AVFM tshirt does something regrettable, all that work trying to show Feminism’s hypocrisy will be gnawing our arseholes out, publicly. You think they aren’t sowing the seeds and biding their time? They remember going through this phase, and they’re prepping the ground for it. Right now we can try at least to argue that it’s not a hate movement, but the first time it happens in “our name” it’s all over. We’ve “proven” what they were saying about MRA’s and men in general.
And their emotion will beat out emotion, because, let’s fucking face it: They’re better at that than us.
What are we good at? War. Making cold, hard decisions to get things done. Sacrifice.
So, let’s sacrifice some guys “right” to cry about their pain for a bit. Let’s sacrifice feeling like we’re the good guys to get things done. Let’s sacrifice proving that they’re wrong for allowing them to prove themselves wrong, while giving them nothing to use against us. If they’re shrill, vindictive women with no logic and a hateful movement, let’s sacrifice being the ones to prove that for letting them do that, while we offer them tissues with a concerned, avuncular bearing. If we show the world that not any men are like that here, then maybe, just maybe, we’ll have won half the war…
I’m actually inclined to say that Matt Binder won this debate. I think Matt’s overall message is off but Paul spent far too much of his time reading per-prepared statements like he was giving a speech, rather than actually engaging in the arguments. This was especially painful to watch in the last segment when he didn’t challenge any of the statistics Matt was citing. Instead opted to simply read off general points he had already made. Paul said that we need to end this culture of demonizing men, but he just left Matt’s claims about domestic violence and rape rates stand without a challenge. That’s a serious problem.
As much as I think Paul deserves a lot of credit for the work he does, debates do not seem to be his strong suit.
You’ve taken a single reference to anger and blown it out into this image of me advocating for building a legion of rage golems. Anger, especially male anger, can and does often coexist with rational thought. Bile spewers are relatively few in the movement, and don’t account for any of the prominent MRAs (mischaracterization by feminists notwithstanding), and there is a strong positive message to be found as well, in game and fitness blogs. Hell, even Captain Capitalism, one of the most rant-prone guys in the manosphere, frequently and seriously advocates for people to live the best, happiest lives they can in our screwed up society, and backs many of his opinions up with facts and research.
Ultimately, ‘anger’ is just the desire to change something about the way things are being done. It’s the observance that something is wrong. If it’s out of control and destructive, that’s called rage, and I didn’t and don’t advocate inundating the movement with rage freaks. If it’s controlled, motivating, and focusing, that’s called passion, and is the lifeblood of any movement.
Anyway, to step off the soapbox a little, I’ll address your points.
Feminism has already conflated normal masculinity with violence and sexual predation, so playing the ‘don’t do anything that could be misconstrued as confirming them’ game will get us nowhere. They’re going to misconstrue and twist everything that’s said here anyway. Political correctness is poison to rational thought. We’ll knock them off that pulpit by exposing their hypocrisy, with facts, figures, and reason. Does getting angry at them directly help that? Probably not. But it doesn’t do any damage either (that isn’t already done), and the morale cost of demanding ‘you must not offend anyone’ is just unreasonable.
Your exhortation to ‘offer them tissues with a concerned, avuncular bearing’ is beta supplication 101. You don’t reclaim masculinity by playing into female definitions of comfort. They’ve built a (relatively) cohesive worldview and convinced the country of it. Humoring it is not going to accomplish anything; you’ve got to expose what’s wrong with it. They’re not going to ‘prove themselves wrong.’ They already make absurd, self-contradictory arguments, and it doesn’t cost them any support. Feminism is the least sane now that it’s ever been, and it has the most support.
So yeah, constantly frothing at the mouth with rage isn’t what’s going to win us this culture war. Reasoned, supported arguments are. But anger isn’t going to cost us the war either, and God knows we need to change the frame of the discourse away from the politically correct nightmare it currently is.
If anger is justifiable, then I hope you don’t mind if I stop making the sort of efforts I normally make in order to be cilvil and just call you a fuckwit for what you’re saying?
You’re so off base you’re spinning, but man, you’ve sure got the “masculinity” jargon down.
Reread what I said with your tactics and strategic glasses on man, and take off the “correcting the wrongs all at the same time” specs off. Think Gandhi, you dolt.
How has anyone ever taken massive, brutal oppression and convinced the oppressors themselves that they’re horrible? Now look at every “freedom fighting” group (back when we could call them that) and every “terrorist” group now (they’re all the same imho, justified rage never justifies doing counterproductive shit just because the enemy are so wrong), and tell me just how easy it is for those watching from the sidelines to see which side is clearly the good guy…
Gandhi just sat there. Gandhi didn’t fight back, Gandhi showed understanding towards the British Empire even as they mass-murdered his people. And he fucking won.
Do. You. Wanna. Win?
Then sack the fuck up, Tinkerbell.
(Was that manly enough for you ya prick?)
Oh, and furthermore: Did I ever suggest we sit there supplicating them? Fuck no, I said we read the board and the rules, then game the fuck out of them. We manipulate them so that they’re doing what they always do, but at some Ryan Gosling-esque guy being understanding, rather than a regular middle-aged man with a beard. See, we’re all so rapey and angry, which is why none of those accusations even theoretically stick when said to the face of sweet, hot young caring guy. They pull this shit with Laci Green, and fuck does it work, even on women.
So, just to clarify once more for your tiny mind: I’m not advocating anything but a calculated win. Beating them. Fuck how, so long as they’re fucked. Once their dogma and their credibility lies in ruins about our feet, then we start trying to get people to care about the other half of humanity as well.
Or, look at it this way: I’m of the opinion, along with Karen Straughn, that “Gynocentrism” is basically evolutionary psychology, which means nearly everyone has it. So we need to take that into account, and accept reality. That just is. It can be unfair, it can be painful, it can be “So not fucking right or fair” but it still. Fucking. Is.
I’m sure the French wished to fuck it wasn’t raining in Agincourt, but choosing to fight the way they did, where they did, when they did, without acknowledging this fact = their loss.
Personally, I think not having kids have their junk cut at and justified by omission by the current guardians of morality would be something I would sacrifice a fuckload for. If you can’t, get the fuck off the front lines and let someone with a pair take charge.
Man enough for you, Sweetpea?
Yes, I agree. Paul was much to focused on his speech and less interested in debating and refuting Binder’s false statistics.
As to the ‘Gosling figure’; could it be a woman? I wouldn’t be opposed to that; not because a male front man can’t appeal to the masses, but because it would give a sense of inclusiveness to all genders and races.
I think Paul’s successor needs to be well thought out. Paul will always be the Godfather of the movement, but a fresh face is needed.
Oh, it could indeed… My first thought was of Karen Straughn, simple because she visibly out-feminists feminists, from a stereotypical viewpoint (I’d feel really cheeky saying that if she hadn’t said it first :p), as well as being the kind of strong, almost apolitical figure that would best serve for mass appeal. Also, she’s clearly unflappable when feminists pull out their go-to shaming insults, so there’s that…
The only reason I though of Gosling (or whoever is the “Hot”, sensitive man that makes feminists want to give “enthusiastic consent” of the moment) was that feminists have one weak spot, and it’s a very human one, very universal. Me, personally, I could scream at most people for being stupid, but I’d have a really hard time screaming at Laci Green, even though she’s a fucking idiot. Partly because of how I know it’d look, and partly because, well, biology *blushes*… Feminists are human too, so I figure, a calm, sexy, sensitive man, constantly proving we’re not all angry, bitter, wifebeating neckbeards, while being the face they repeatedly accuse of “rape enabling”… Well… If he could also squeeze out a tear whenever that happened, I think we’d honestly have them unwilling to go on TV anymore in six months, tops…
Let’s face it, most of humanity don’t think that deeply about anything. If the advertising is good enough, no-one thinks about diabetes, they just eat the candybar, then yell at people who tell them it’s a bad idea. Right now, thanks to Feminism’s massive rebranding effort (after they’d “fixed” everything you could theoretically get angry about), they’re still “Relevant” thanks to ditching bra-burning, enforced lesbianism and disdain for aesthetics. Now, when they’re criticised, they pull out Laci Green and pretty, young, lipsticked “pro-sex” girls to tell us they don’t hate men, just everything men do.
Me, I think, on this front, turnabout could be fair play. But that’s my personal ideal, my dream, the last thought in my head before I wake up with a boner… Still, some mornings it is Karen talking to them like she’s their mother, and she’s very disappointed…
Fuck, now I need a quick lie down…
can you believe that he believes those statistics. He says women don’t send men to war, I was drafted at age 20, my twin sister was not. Women’s right to vote, does he know black men got the vote first because they were dying in wars? He goes off on men sent to war when the majority of voters are women, and they have had the vote for 100 years. Could he discuss with Irin Pizzey the DV statistics. I would tell him that I taught women self-defense, helped women who were raped, took care of my children as babies, – they are older than he is and my daughter knows more about gender issues than he does – I took care of my children as babies to early years of school. In his world, if he knew one of my best friends taught women’s history at the college level and NO LONGER BELIEVES the statistics he is sharing.. but if all he knew was about how I helped women and girls, risking my life at times, he would think there is no way I could be an MRA but I was an MRA at age 17 taking home economics and skipping being the boy paying for the car, dinner and date… and I have been an MRA for 15 years. Matt likes being on TV and it’s sooooo easy being there for women, isn’t it Matt, and pretending you are there for your brothers too when you attack men far kinder, braver, and more generous to BOTH genders than you would consider. I also helped men and boys get through sexual violence, child abuse, and DV… for anyone today to say with a straight face that 8.5% of DV is from men shows his head is pretty far up someones butt. He likely believe the number one cause of birth defects is from men beating PG women, something feminist shared for years. ANYONE that believes all the myths he does will think MRA’s are a joke, but really, MATT, you and your feminist friends say the same things about men that the KKK said blacks, evil, mean, don’t care about kids, prone to violence, particularly rape, as a cop and social worker with girls I found women lying about rape, period, admitting they lied later. It happens. Other women don’t want to feel responsible for drunken sex because girls are sugar and spice and men are animals, look inside yourself MATT, does evil lurk, do you think because you think of body parts sometimes when you whack it you are a bad, bad man. MOTHER NATURE made you and most men, and a lot more women than you realize, think such thoughts. You will likely come around some day but between now and then, being there for both genders, you are going to slow down the day we address women’s violence, particularly
child abuse. Stop child abuse (Mostly from the care of moms, mostly boys injured and killed) and you will put a huge dent in rape, DV, and future child abuse but what feminist did was to take away the HHS Child Abuse Prevention Month APRIL and change it to Sexual Assault Awareness Month, SAMM a man’s name. Where there will be not mention of grandmothers like mine that would straddle a little boys face night after night. No mention of Antoine Fishers childhood sex abuse. No mention of RA Dickey’s sexual abuse, (Goggle it) or mention of the book “A mother’s touch” by Julie Brand, … why would they mention such abuse, as in Dorothy Lewis’ books “Guilty by Reason of Insanity” and Mickely Williams, a CA sex abuse worker and lesbian won’t be discussing her sexual abuse by her partner, … on and on. You can’t trash half the population with exaggerated numbers unless you are a total bigot and trying to raise billions of dollars more to keep teaching bullshit. My friend Jenna, no no longer a victim feminist (Says she is in remission) speaks of guys like you as “Philosophically Castrated by the Victim Feminist Movement” … Someday you will have a real scary day as in the shadows of your mind you will see how you were duped, by whom, your momma, teachers, … but you will be afraid to look, afraid to take the Red Pill, you will be like the guy looking for the blue pill, safe in your fantasy land about how you are saving really, really good women from really really bad men. My wife, my daughter, my past lovers and women friends, my twin sister, they will tell you that I am a really great guy, social worker, X cop, now a 100% disabled vet… and I am telling you, I am one proud MRA and I told my daughter that because 99% of the people are doing what their DNA and culture tells them, protect women (You are not original) so I am going to help the one percent, that wants to help men and boys, because if you don’t help men and boys, you will find more of them like the ones you pretend are most of them. SD I have some brain damage from the army, wasn’t sure where I could post this, perhaps someone can cut and paste and put in the right place and excuse the typos and spellings and lost thoughts, it’s part of the damage.
Your language speaks volume of how you really perceive masculinity; you seem to view it with the same bullshit “toxicity” lens as feminists.
Are you honestly telling us men, who worked and sacrificed our asses off in isolated, dangerous environments for little pay but for the greater social good, that we aren’t getting anywhere unless we adopt the saccharine persona of a buff pretty boy suffering from Golden Uterus Syndrome?
And what the fuck is wrong with middle-aged men with beards? You certainly have the audacity to come in here and outwardly shit on the very demographic that keeps society running. What did Ryan Gosling do for the world that the rest of us have to emulate? Pussy worship and look sexy? Are you so clueless that you don’t understand that the world runs more on blood, sweat, and tears than it does on moist panties?
And another thing: What’s with your unwarranted, disrespectful attitude towards Tyler? perhaps we should arrange a meet-up so you can enlighten me with how your definition of masculinity is. You might find yourself with a size-16 boot up your ass if you talk to me in the same manner as you did Tyler, however.
Wow, so by pointing out how stupid the proposition that one can be angry, rational and still get anyone to agree with what you’re saying is what made you angry?
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here, and presume everything you said was a joke, because it looks a lot like you read what you wanted and ignored the rest… Especially when you joked (I hope you were joking, for the sake of your own credibility) that you’d be violent simply because I responded to someone’s insistence that manly anger is completely valid and good by simply stopping moderating my own, male anger… The anger that used to have me having to yell at or demean others, escalate to violence etc… So, the fact that lampooning this both earns me scorn for straw-manning male anger as violent AND threats of violence from the same person, all because I wasn’t civil enough… While being told my argument for being more civil is flawed… You, sir, are either the funniest fucker I’ve ever met, or…
Oh, and if it came to it, you could bury your “Size 16 boot” in my “ass”… Go ahead, buy a plane ticket to Australia just to get 3 months in gaol dickhead. Use your righteous male anger to prove you’re right, I’ll use the lay of the land and the predominant morality to win, thus proving my proposition AND guaranteeing you get your “ass” kicked 🙂 I’m such a “Beta” male, I probably couldn’t beat you in a fair fight. So glad we don’t live in a fair world…
What I pointed out is that the well for people accepting older, strident, bearded men as non-threatening has been poisoned by Feminism, something I doubt you’re arguing against. My point is that that is the lay of the land. If you were gonna jump me like you claimed, you’d do it where there were no witnesses, right? Well, all the witnesses are primed by biology and Feminism to see a man with a beard and grey hairs as The Patriarch, so when he argues publicly that the Patriarchy is a myth, well…
You clearly have every intention of guaranteeing these issues get dealt with very, very slowly, while demanding the right to be counterproductive, to the point of threatening violence on the internets, something that is either, as I said, genius comedy, or proof that you lack the conviction and skills to argue even in text form without making masculinity look violent.
Either way, I just won, but keep losing, by all means…
I’m sorry, I’ve thought on this further, and come to a conclusion: Ignore my stupid ideas. They’re stupid, whiny, high-pitched and limp-wristed, and would never lead to you successfully managing to usurp Feminism as the moral arbiters of the One Acceptable Mode of Discourse. Go about things the way you are. Put men Feminists think of as “Angry white Patriarchs” to the fore, stridently quoting facts at them while the Feminists manipulate feels. Physically threaten anything you either cannot comprehend, or just fear, and tar everyone who isn’t you or just like you as an Un-male traitor.
Oh, and at no point genderswap those terms and see how much it reads like Feminism.
Now, return to your glorious male revolution, long may it continue!
“I’m sorry, I’ve thought on this further, and come to a conclusion: Ignore my stupid ideas. They’re stupid, whiny, high-pitched and limp-wristed, and would never lead to you successfully managing to usurp Feminism as the moral arbiters of the One Acceptable Mode of Discourse.”
You said it. Not me. I’m also not impressed with underhanded, passive-aggressive shame tactics.
“Go about things the way you are. Put men Feminists think of as “Angry white Patriarchs” to the fore, stridently quoting facts at them while the Feminists manipulate feels.”
Their racism, sexism, and inability to rationally defend their ideology is not our burden…. In fact, it’s hurting their cause. Playing by their rules, instead of principles, will only embolden their prejudices are righteous.
“Physically threaten anything you either cannot comprehend, or just fear, and tar everyone who isn’t you or just like you as an Un-male traitor.”
Really? I’m a dumb brute that was threatened by a superior intellect I couldn’t comprehend? Golly, and here I thought that I was just confronting a verbally abusive (and hypocritical) douche.
I didn’t persecute indiscriminately all those who don’t follow in lockstep to my world-views… I simply berated the pussy-worshiping white-knight behavior as the 21st century’s Uncle Tom. I do not believe that treating feminists with kid gloves and ass-patting will do anything positive, and only support and perpetuate the detrimental social myth of “women are angelic victims, men are demonic chickenhawks.”
The fact is, if women truly can’t handle harsh facts and equally challenging expectations, then women truly can’t handle the responsibilities required in social powers and privileges, and thus we must roll back gender equality. But I don’t believe this: Judgy Bitch and the Honey Badgers are proof that women can handle responsibility and accountability. I will treat a feminist with equal expectations, and I will not give quarter to foolish and selfish behavior.
“Now, return to your glorious male revolution”
Wrong!! It is a revolution for meritocracy and adulthood at the helm. It is a revolution for recognizing sexual dimorphism as a symbiotic human experience. It is a revolution for perfecting and emulating both masculine and feminine virtues in the name of social cohesion and sanity.It is a revolution to prevent males from tearing our digital-aged Tower of Babylon to the ground, thus repelling us back into the dark ages, in a fit of misanthropic rage. It is only a matter of time that the energy responsible for our male suicide epidemic will redirect into catastrophic mutiny without the hope for reform. the MRM is currently that hope.
How do you suppose we spin that harsh reality into little pink fuzzies for our wallflower feminists?
here come da grammar nazis again!
haven’t the time to watch the video, but ya DO have the time to come and criticize someone who got their point across despite bad spelling , etc
*sigh* at least you used commas, which make you readable. And no, I didn’t “not have time”, I wouldn’t give that time to Paul (something must be done about the suicide epidemic in men, so let’s classify the mental illness with the highest suicide rate as evil women are bitches, even while men are already woefully underdiagnosed, cuz that’ll fucking help, now, won’t it?” Elam, especially when he’s not a great debater. He’s great at trolling Feminists and confirming their idiotic hypothesis that all men crave the patriarchy, while feeding them quotes to use…
*headdesk* Now, try removing all the punctuation from that and tell me you could read it, wanker…
Oh, as to what warranted it? Simple: The bullshit Beta supplication crack. Apart from being a gross mischaracterisation of what I’m saying (one you seem more than willing to run with), it’s also just fucking abhorrent. The amount of Alpha/Beta tripe in these parts is laughable, and almost always comes from people who are, well, not Alphas. Quick joke: How can you tell when an insecure beta male walked into the room? He told everyone he was an Alpha.
Seriously, I’ve never been able to pin down this elusive bullshit distinction. Humans just don’t organise that way. Even the most primal guys I’ve ever met share their harems with their friends
Seriously, if you could re-read, one last time, and see the obvious glaring distinction between what I said, which can be summed up simply by: Winning by any means necessary; and what you’re both saying I said: Just lie down and take it, it’ll stop hurting eventually…
Christ, I never suggested modifying the message, just using a messenger that makes them look bad shooting, rather than one they get applause for attacking, ffs…
You know, like WAF, that little thing that’s done more to get us in a good light, and feminism in a bad light, than anything the MRA’s have ever done…
Sucks to be you right now. Still, at least you got big feet…
[…] Watch Paul Elam school some little YouTube punk who didn’t wike the Men’s Conference. […]
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