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by Caitlin Elam
While spelunking in the vast cave that is the Internet, exploring the concept of “Women Against Feminism”, I did a double take:
“Women against FEMINISM? Burn them at the stake! Someone fetch me my fainting couch and some smelling salts, I’ve got the vapors!” Yes, I’m guilty of being a tad overdramatic…sometimes.
I composed myself and thought about it logically: what would it hurt me to go check out their site with an open mind, read what they have to say, and comment on it via blog? Aren’t we supposed to be open-minded creatures of tolerance these days? That’s what I thought and what I’ve always believed/been taught.
I read their Facebook/Tumblr pages and got a look at what this was, exactly. This isn’t women hating on other women but rather trying to reshape what modern feminism has become and I like a good deal of what they’re saying. They’re not saying women should go back in the kitchen and be barefoot and pregnant (unless they want to). They’re not saying that women shouldn’t have rights to healthcare, decision-making power over their bodies, be able to vote/own land/hold office/join the military/etc, or be safe from anti-victim rape legislation. I didn’t see one iota of any of that in any of the posts..
What I found was a bunch of thoughtful, ballsy women coming together for a common cause and supporting one another. Their name is either a misnomer or really cleverly crafted trolling/satire because these are actual feminists (or what feminists are supposed to be), in my humble opinion. In a couple of cases, some of these women have said that feminists have told WAF women they should be raped for their beliefs. Counterproductive, much?
I didn’t agree with all of the women that posted but that’s ok; I don’t think they were looking for my approval and that is wonderful because they shouldn’t need my approval – only their own. If it feels right, do it (unless it’s against the law – no brainer).
It was evident to me that they want the freedom to choose based on what theywant personally. You want to go be a stay at home wife and mother? Go ahead – I’ve done it and it’s the hardest freaking job on the planet but easily the most rewarding. Do you want to be a multi-billionaire CEO? Go for it! I suggest reading “Oh, The Places You’ll Go” by Dr. Seuss and listening to “Eye of the Tiger” by Survivor to jazz you up.
I’ve been working in vocations where males are more prevalent than females since I could legally work because those fields are where my passions were/are. The jobs I loved working just happened to be ubiquitously male, not because I felt I had anything to prove or needed to spank the patriarchy with my uterus of mightiness. I’ve been employed in a video store (I love movies), a movie theater (did I mention I love movies?), a comic book store (I love comics), a pizza joint (who doesn’t love pizza?), and a police officer in the United States Navy (I love me some justice).
Have I been sexually harassed before? Yes, I have and it was while I was in the military. It was absolutely a horrible experience. Do you want to know what I did? I reported the infraction (at the encouragement of a man). My “chutzpah” sparked something because a few other women were encouraged to speak out about this Sailor for his wrongdoing; he had done the same thing to them that he had done to me.
The man responsible was put up for Captain’s Mast (Non Judicial Punishment) and he was subsequently and unceremoniously kicked out of the Navy. I was then, unfortunately, reprimanded by his Chief for “ruining” the guy’s life, family, and career by reporting the harassment. Navy isn’t ever going to be perfect. Doesn’t matter – I’m still proud of standing up for myself and others.
I didn’t automatically glean from those two bad experiences that all men are horrible, women-hating trolls because that would be stupid. Overgeneralizing is not only myopic but also unfair. For every one man I had making my life hell, I had five supporting me every step of the way. My Commanding Officer, my Executive Officer, my Security Officer, my Leading Petty Officer (MA1 Darren Clayton – whom I consider my mentor to this day and a hell of a friend/person), my coworkers/brothers in arms – all of them house Y chromosomes. All of them helped and supported me. And yes, I had female Sailors supporting me, too. Good Sailors all.
The military does have a long way to go in its treatment towards women but it is experiences like mine that generally give me hope. It was also kick-ass women (like my grandmother) who were in the WAVES (Women Accepted for Voluntary Emergency Service) that made it so I could even take the oath to join the Navy in the first place.
Yes, the system does bomb and there injustices commented against women every single day all over the world. It tears my heart in two. I want to fight for those women, not women that tell me I’m a piece of shit because I like getting manicures or I let my daughter wear pink. Newsflash: the kid LIKES pink – shut up about it (she also pretends to be Wolverine from the X-Men if it helps you sleep better at night).
While it is a sickening/sobering thought that women suffer abuse every single day, it does not mean that the whole male race are vicious brutes ready to spring out and hurt ladies at all hours of the day. If that were the case, I wouldn’t be able to walk out of my house.
I wouldn’t have married my husband if I thought he was just going to persecute me; I was raised better than that. Could you look at this picture of Sam asleep with our daughter on Father’s Day and honestly tell me that he hates women? He’s helping me with raising one (very well, I might add).
The modern feminist movement has gone from women supporting each other, fighting against real injustices, and having a common goal of equality with men to the other end of the spectrum where women viciously attack each other and compete against each other for who can be the “most feminist” (but God forbid there be a pageant for that title because that would be *gasp* sexist).
I do fundamentally consider myself a feminist, though, but I always have to have to add a disclaimer so I’m not lumped in with the radicals that have the loudest voices in the media. I strive for female equality with men rather than superiority over men; there, that’s about as concise as I can get it.
I think the feminist movement has come a long way and accomplished a lot but has most definitely overshot the mark to its own detriment. It went from “all men are better than women and should dominate” to “all men are scum and must be stopped!” Whatever happened to happy mediums? As Billy Joel says, “I don’t know why I go to extremes; too high or too low, there ain’t no in-betweens”. Apparently you’re either for the feminist movement or you’re against them.
I’ve seen most of the blogs coming out against and demonizing Women Against Feminism or celebrities like Shailene Woodley because they’ve said they’re not feminist (probably because they, like me, don’t want to be pigeonholed). “Big feminism”/radicals represented in these blogs throw WAF and other anti-feminist celebrities into that aforementioned false dichotomy and it really makes you wonder if they even read anything WAF wrote. There are misogynists in this world but these women ain’t it.
I was NOT put on this Earth to entertain or please men but I wasn’t put here to hate them, either. I learned from the best feminist on the planet (my mother, whom I’ve written about before), to stand up for myself, fight for what I believe in, pick my battles, hold my head up high, and be proud to be a woman. I have, I do, and I am.
Feminists – stop shooting yourselves in the vagina, grow up, and make yourselves a cohesive/inclusive unit with a clear mission statement. If being a feminist means I have to be a man-hating bully then count me right the hell out; I choose to support rather than demean.
Caitlin Elam is a contributor for the Never Daunted Radio Network. You can reach her on Twitter at @SuperCaity
judgybitch 
Looks like a good step towards understanding.
Although today, the problem I personally have with feminism (and many others agree) is their laws. It’s not that their leaders are loudly man-hating in the media (I could ignore it), it’s not that they are killjoys and humorless (who cares), it’s how the government bent over backwards to support their delusions, hurting men in the process. That is all.
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Feminism claims to represent all women, and bending over backwards to please women is kinda what men are best at. So when feminism asserts, in contradiction to plainly observable history, that men have always used their power to oppress women, men with power redouble their efforts to give them what they want. And men without power go sleep under bridges.
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The message is spreading. And taking hold. Good to see.
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“While it is a sickening/sobering thought that women suffer abuse every single day”
Yes it is but that’s their own fault (I’m assuming women does NOT include kids since they can’t just leave or call the gestapo on someone). Men suffer it too and it’s sometimes their fault as well. I say “sometimes” with men because it depends. Since the law is completely on the woman’s side she has ZERO excuse to stay with an abusive jerk. Now it is true that this applies to men too but we don’t have all these special laws that not only artificially prop up women so they don’t feel bad about themselves (it’s always about emotion isn’t it? lol) but also completely destroy a man’s legal rights.
“You want to go be a stay at home wife and mother? Go ahead – I’ve done it and it’s the hardest freaking job on the planet but easily the most rewarding.”
You haven’t had enough jobs. No I’m not saying it’s easy (nothing worthwhile is) so get that thought out of your head.
“and having a common goal of equality with men”
You’re not equal to men. Men still hold 95% of all patents and built civilization itself. When I see you doing the same thing then I’ll believe that. Nature is NOT egalitarian and therefore reality isn’t. Women Lesbian feminist Camille Paglia admitted that without men women would still be living in grass huts.
Hell, I wanted to be an athlete when I was a kid but I just don’t possess the physical skills to do it. I’m no Barry Bonds. In that way he is FAR superior to me. Is that “fair”? No. He got to earn $20 million a year to play a game. Is that “fair”? No. Life isn’t fair. Never has been. Never will be. Get used to it.
“I was NOT put on this Earth to entertain or please men”
Actually you were. And men are put here to protect women (at least most of us still do our part). Again, there is no equality here. It’s just not reality. Maybe you should stop thinking of yourself once in awhile and help out as well as accept reality instead of listening to silly political ideologies that have no basis in reality.
“be proud to be a woman”
Being proud of something you have no control over? Weird. Instead, be proud that you can think and do things for others, or maybe be proud of some achievement you’re in the process of doing or maybe something else. It’s kind of like some black person saying they’re “proud to be black”. Proud to produce more melanin than someone else? Bizarre thinking.
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I am constantly amazed at the dichotomy of female thinking, even in “pro man” pieces like this.
You join the navy, then complain about the treatment you get from a guy in an “all-guy” environment and demand that he be held accountable for hurting your sensibilities. How is that fair? Any idea how many guys just have to endure some asshat because that’s the nature of the beast?
I can just see a male sailor going up to his XO and saying, “Sir, Petty Officer Bob is being mean to me. Can you please kick him out of the service?” Yea, that’d go over like a lead balloon!
The whole concept of women in the military is, at it’s foundation, based on gender bias in favor of the women, and then women complain when they run into a big meanie on station and demand that he be ousted. They demand that there be rules and regulations to protect them and their delicate sensibilities.
“I strive for female equality with men…”
This goes directly against what you’ve said in the past about women having incredible benefits from men, but not returning the favor. When were women not holding the upper hand?
You want the right to go to college…. just so you can study movies? Someone actually made a degree for watching movies? You want the right to join the military, but only if you get to keep your pretty hair do and don’t have to do all those sweaty pushups and run as far. Never mind that thousands of men are refused entry because they couldn’t meet the standard.
The more I see, the more I think that there’s just no pleasing women.
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Guh, another “I can’t disagree with these women because they make sense, so I must claim them for Feminism” piece…
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I have often worried that feminism might actually create the very monster which they have been battling against and which I have never believed existed. And I feel like I can see the start of that happening here. I like some of what you say BUT, women ARE absolutely equal to men – equality isn’t judged by who has achieved the most in material terms – that is a fundamental mistake which feminists made. We have always been equal to you. And I am definitely not here to entertain men – I think men make much more effort to entertain women than the other way around (why are men so much funnier than women? They try to entertain us and each other and I love them for it). And I don’t think you can blanket blame women for the abuse they suffer. I am from the UK not the US but there are plenty of situations all over the world where women are compelled to tolerate abuse. What feminists should not do but do do is use abuse which women in developing countries may suffer at the hands of men and use it to promote their own cause thereby actually exploiting those women to their own ends. That happens far too frequently.
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Regarding your point about how it’s BS that she gets to complain that someone is making her uncomfortable in the military, would you feel the same way if the infraction were the same (multiple instances of sexual harassment), only it was a guy harassing several men instead? We as a culture treat sexual matters as much more dire than all others. A movie can kill several people and get PG-13, but showing what we were born with is a hard R, if not NC-17.
Also, the moral responsibility for the reduced standards for women in the military is on the feminist policy trolls that got it made that way. Without relevant information about her direct situation and attitude, why foist the blame for that on her?
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Blah, blah, blah. Standard stock response that shows she didn’t understand a word I said and still wants to live in denial. Next…
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It is problematic if almost everything can be called feminism. Nowadays feminism stands for many ills. Like the entire rape myth story, and the equality of all types of *rape, consensual or true forcible rape-rape.
So it is understandable if women want to distance themselves from feminism that defines everything as rape. For some people, feminism has become a four letter word, polluted beyond redemption.
Feminists, after all, defend women who cut off men’s dicks (Lorena Bobbitt) and shoot their husbands in the sleep.
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In some quarters feminism is starting to take a beating because it is so blatantly a hate movement. Thus some of the smarter feminists are looking to rebrand the movement as not anti-male, dress it up in a pretty pink dress and play to men’s desires to be helpful to women.
But note the piece is still completely female centric. No discussion of men’s issues and that is what we can continue to expect from any feminist. Women in general and feminists in particular have no concern for men. Men are only evaluated on what they can do for women. Until men decide we have intrinsic value and start to stand up for ourselves, women will continue to take advantage of us no matter what label they place on themselves.
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Feminsm brought us such absurdities:
Yes means No! Forcibly raping a 17 year old is the same rape as consensual love making
I am referring to this because of the one picture in the article that complains that drunk sex is equal to forcible brutal rape.
But this is the feminism that runs the world, that dominated the United Nations and the top echelon of the European Union.
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Feminism is just chasing the endless myths they’ve invented in their heads.
“For some people, feminism has become a four letter word, polluted beyond redemption.”
As well it should be. It degrades and ridicules the very people (i.e., MEN) who built civilization and created almost all of the wonderful luxuries and creature comforts that not only make all our lives physically MUCH easier but has even allowed women to get jobs outside the home. These naive (and some of them even hateful) women think feminism “liberated” them when in reality it was men. PERIOD. We built civilization AND simply GAVE women things like the vote while the men were forced to earn it on battlefield, all the while screaming how equal they are. LOL!
“Feminists, after all, defend women who cut off men’s dicks (Lorena Bobbitt) and shoot their husbands in the sleep.”
Yes, that wonderful ideology that is just all about equality. Yeah, uh huh. you don’t see us men wanting to chop of women’s body parts (and neither should they), much less their privates for fucks sake! Most of them don’t give two shits about except what they can extract from them.
It’s also brought us star chambers in universities where a woman can simply point the finger at any man she chooses and he has to prove a negative. If this was done to women there would be a massive world wide outrage! And rightly so I might add. How disgusting is it that people could justify this type of totalitarianism? I mean this is MAINSTREAM stuff! This isn’t even some fringe group. This is NORMAL in this society!
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Bingo. This is a terrible article. Favorite line:
If it feels right, do it (unless it’s against the law – no brainer).
Because it should be obvious to all of us that if the law says we’re allowed to do something, it must be okay.
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Can this “what real feminism is supposed to be” idea just go fall off a cliff?
Real feminism is just like real communism. Both are about equality and helping the group they believe is disadvantaged in society. Both view the other group as oppressive. That is the foundation, always has been, and always will be.
This of course might sound just great to some, but says nothing of their actions or their intentions. “We just want the right to vote” says nothing of what the person will do with the “right” to vote, whether they will abuse such a “right,” expand the government, use the state against others, etc. “I just want equality” hasn’t meant “equal rights under the law.” It has meant, equal numbers in whatever fields or occupations they feel women should be in. It has meant affirmative action, lowering standards to allow for women, discriminating against men, ignoring as well as outright working against issues that effect men and boys, because men are the advantaged group in society, just like the rich wealthy elite, so you must hate the women/poor, if you think they deserve rights, or services.
This is not “radical” feminism. “Radical” feminism makes as much sense as “radical” communism. It’s just feminism or communism. If you want to claim you’re some lighter, fluffier version of feminism or communism, that’s your business, but can you please stop pretending your movement has been taken over by some radical band of man-hating feminists? They are the foundation of the movement, why there was a movement in the first place.
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Tyler, it’s BS because you have no right to a “comfortable” life. You can’t even define “comfortable” and quantify what makes a woman “uncomfortable”! As the old saying goes, “It’s sexual harassment if she doesn’t think you’re cute. If she does, it’s just flirting.”
While we don’t know the particulars of the situation, the particulars are irrelevant because women demanded entrance into an all-male environment for their own benefit and demanded that the standards be lowered so that they could get in — then they complain about running into a turd. Too bad, Snowflake, you asked to be part of the club, not the other way around!
I have been on the bad end of a sexual harassment claim that was proven vindictive by the HR department and the woman that filed the complaint wasn’t fired, demoted or reprimanded in any way. I, on the other hand, was immediately suspended pending the results of the investigation because she was assumed innocent of any wrong-doing. I was humiliated and embarrassed in front of my coworkers, and the allegation remained in my file even though it was found in my favor. She wasn’t fired for what she did.
What’s the net result of all of that? The guy that got his career killed is now a die-hard woman hater. He might have been bad before, we just don’t know, but after seeing his career shot down because of sexual harassment claims…. well, you can bet that he holds a really low opinion of women and the system that supports them. You made an enemy for life!
And what evidence could you present? Was their physical contact? Guys on teams routinely slap each other on the ass. Is that sexual harassment? Did they use “dirty words”? What did you think was going to happen when you walked into a den of wolves?
As for the standards being lowered, note that not a single woman going into the military has demanded that there be a unisex standard. They haven’t demanded that the men’s standard be lowered so that more wimpy guys can get in. Nope. ALL of the women want the standards adjusted so that they can get in and move up the ladder. Now they’re crying about how the standards for infantry should be lowered because an infantry MOS is a fast track to promotions. Not because they want to fight on the front lines. Not because they want to be able to serve their country in every way possible. No. Because infantry is a fast-track to promotion. Power. Money. Prestige. Command.
Even the tip of the hat to the WAVES: “It was also kick-ass women (like my grandmother) who were in the WAVES (Women Accepted for Voluntary Emergency Service) that made it so I could even take the oath to join the Navy in the first place.”
Note the “Voluntary” part? Voluntary like the guys getting drafted? Voluntary like the guys getting shamed by the White Feather brigade?
The WAVES were a voluntary force, true. But their whole purpose for existing was to free up the men so that they could actually go off to the battlefield and fucking DIE! So, please, tell me more about these “kick-ass women”. Being a secretary in the Army sure is hard work. Definitely worthy of the “kick-ass” honorific.
Women like to point to Rosie the Riveter as proof that women can do everything that men can do. Rosie became an Icon of women’s power, but isn’t it curious that they ignore the fact that women were riveting airplanes together because all the menfolk were busy getting shot at?
But we’re told that WAVES made it possible for Judgy to get into the navy. The men didn’t make it possible. The president and congress didn’t sign any bills or pass any laws. Nope. It was the kick-ass women that made it possible.
Try as you might, women will always default to the herd setting. Even someone like Judgy that can hit the nail square on the head quite regularly will fall back to the “it’s the toughest job in the world” shit when it comes to describing motherhood. Being a stay-at-home mom is tough for a woman. But it’s not nearly as tough as they want to make it out. Otherwise you’d see far more women dying from it. 93% of workplace fatalities are men, not women. Same for OJI’s, homelessness, and suicides. But women got it hard? Being a mom is tougher than a man could imagine, but women are so strong that they can rise up to the challenge and conquer it. No fatalities, alcoholism, OJI’s and suicides for them. They can do the toughest job in the world and come out looking like a fairy-tale princess.
Fuck that noise.
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Reason 8,376,921 NOT to get married:
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Sigh: so close, but so far.
“It was evident to me that they want the freedom to choose based on what they want personally. You want to go be a stay at home wife and mother? Go ahead – I’ve done it and it’s the hardest freaking job on the planet but easily the most rewarding. Do you want to be a multi-billionaire CEO? Go for it!”
The message is still “a woman should be permitted/able/assisted with government money to do whatever she freaking wants”. No notion that these are options that men, in fact, don’t have. No conception that sorry, nancy – not everyone can be a CEO. And if a woman fails to be CEO, well, you wanna bet that they won’t at the end of the day blame the patriarchy for it?
(Here’s a clue: anyone who thinks doing a little house cleaning, preparing a daily meal, and keeping kids fingers out of the light socket for the four hours a day they are not either in school or asleep is “the hardest job in the world” isn’t really cut out to direct a large company. Sorry.)
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Doesn’t that already happen in the navy/military in general? I don’t know I’m not there, but there’s a prevalent stereotype of man on man sexual abuse in the navy.
But to answer your question: Not just in the military but in life in general, a man can’t complain about being sexually harassed and be taken seriously.
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Jim check what I said more carefully.
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Did some of you commenters miss the “by Caitlin Elam” underneath the title up on top — yeah, right up on the top of the page! The thoughts expressed are NOT actually those of JudgyBitch.
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Please do the same of what I wrote.
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Please reread what I said more carefully.
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JB didn’t write this article. It’s a repost. She’s said on this blog, at least twice that I can recall, that being a mother is clearly NOT the world’s toughest job.
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My apologies to all, including Janet. I’m not up on all this fancy computer jargon and was only going by the “author” label at the bottom.
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I would also point out that men don’t generally get all pissy about “off color” remarks. We’re raised to believe that we’re not special little super-sensitive snowflakes.
I’ve talked to dozens of HR people and not one of them can categorically prove what is and isn’t sexual harassment. More importantly, not one of them has ever had a case come to their desk where there was actual physical proof of a violation. No video, audio, etc. It’s always just the woman’s word.
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Which is exactly why I wrote the Toolmaker article over at just4guys.com. Men have forgotten their intrinsic value, instead choosing a false hierarchy that is measured solely on how well they serve women.
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I can’t take anyone seriously who thinks being a Mum is the “hardest freaking job” in the world. I’ll tell the SAS that.
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Actually I read it through a number of times, didn’t dismiss it and thought you made some good, challenging interesting points (e.g about jobs and pride of being a woman) . I just think that it is a real problem to think men and women are not equal – that is exactly what feminists believe and therefore I think you are creating a breeding ground for feminism . I have always believed that men and women are totally equal which is why I am not a feminist. We are utterly equal even if we do different jobs. Feminists have always devalued the domestic private role and that appears to be what you are doing too.
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Depends in what way you mean ‘equal’. Men and women are equally human, but not equally capable in every way. I would agree that women are less good at creating practical things like ships and power stations, but that may just be because there have always been men around to do that stuff, and women don’t want to do that as much as they want babies (which, incidentally, men want too but can’t get without a willing woman). They’re not equal, because they’re so different. It’s like comparing oxygen and food.
As for what we were ‘put on earth for’, it’s still up for debate. If you’re religious, you might have a specific reason, but apart from that the only theory I know of is to reproduce. That might involve pleasing men, at least long enough to convince them to father your children. More important would be raising your children well.
I agree that it’s stupid to take pride in oneself, for any reason, let alone for something that isn’t an achievement. It’s also true that people should take responsibility for their own life decisions, including whether to stay in an abusive relationship. Oh, and having kids probably isn’t that hard, seeing as most women manage it…but raising them well may be. I’m not sure I can judge, being nulliparous and all.
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the author tag is just under the first picture in italics
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They are of equal value, of equal importance – equal but different contributions.
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Why was this gynocentric piece of tripe reblogged here?
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Because it represents a turning point for average women. They are seeing the light. I celebrate that.
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Unfortunately true, but as a first step, it’s not so bad. She goes on about women too much, and might still be unaware of men’s issues. For example, it gives me little comfort if a female cop says “women should be able to be SAHMs without shame” if she frequently applies the “guilty until proven innocent” principle to rape-accused men she jails.
But hearing the same thing from a regular woman (who hasn’t decended to a similar state of monstrosity) makes me hopeful.
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Here you go:
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“Seeing the light”?
We clearly did not read the same article, JB. This is narcissistic drivel.
The best line:
If it feels right, do it (unless it’s against the law – no brainer).
Because if the law permits us to do something, it must be okay.
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Nailed it.
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Seconded. Excellent post.
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If you look at the WRM back in the 50’s and 60’s, the Communist Party of the US and the USSR were strong backers of the WRM. The matriarchs of the movement were strong believers in the communist way, coming from communist backgrounds. The ties between feminism and communism are many, and it’s no coincidence that both leftism/socialism and women’s rights have started to dominate our culture over the last 50 years.
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Sees the light yet remains committed to NAFALT.
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Indeed.
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I spoke too soon. Caitlin has dropped the label of feminist:
http://neverdaunted.net/take-this-ethos-and-shove-it-caitlin-elam-explains-her-break-up-with-feminism/
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Interesting. Still a terrible initial article, but it’s a start.
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“If it feels right, do it (unless it’s against the law – no brainer).
Because if the law permits us to do something, it must be okay.”
Exactly. And look what “the law” is doing to men and children.
It’s still incredible to see young men being brought up before star chambers in these universities now. He has to prove to negative. How the fuck is he supposed to do that. It’s like Nazi Germany only for men only. Hell I’m not even an egalitarian and I can’t imagine doing the same thing to women.
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Well, she’s smart enough to see the stupidity in aligning yourself to a big ideology. You sacrifice your personal identity for you group identity.
Good for her, I think this officially makes her above average intelligence in my book.
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Its encouraging to see women promoting views that are counter to mainstream feminist ideology, however its still frustrating that most of these people still consider feminism as a equal rights movement and not the special interest group it actually is. The challenge behind equating feminist ideology with equality is that you simply cannot get past the core of the ideology, which is Patriarchy Theory, an essentially sexist belief that stereotypes the contributions, sacrifices and disposability of mankind as oppressors against women. When an ideology is based on an oppressor/victim dynamic the net result is not a push towards equality but rather vindictiveness and a threat narrative. It’s not that you don’t need feminism, its that you CANNOT use feminism to reach equality. The good news is that there are much better ways to tackle gender issues than feminism can provide, and more and more women (and men) are realizing that and rejecting both feminism and masculism for the bad idea’s they have.
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I don’t suppose she is a relation of Paul’s?- and it’s male spelled backwards – all very serendipitous!
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funny how if feminists think it is such a hard job they are willing to pay their childminders and nurseries so little.
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Men and women will never be equal nor should they be:
http://www.angryharry.com/esEqualityNotAchievable.htm
This myth of equality relies on the inherent oppression of inequality. Which is bogus.
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The operative function of equally human and value is as far as one can go. Which results in the practical prosecution of murder regardless of sex. However equality in anything else only results in catering to the lowest common denominator. Equality in social relations fundamentally denies hierarchy.
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Alas those women still has some miles to go.
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Once I got to the “I do fundamentally consider myself a feminist” part I was going to go on my feminism vs. egalitarian tangent I’m so oft to do, but the more I think about it the more I can’t even say if Janet (Mrs. Bloomfield?) isn’t a feminist, or is an egalitarian, or isn’t both.
Now I’m just confused, and a little apprehensive.
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info warrior – I am not searching for equality. And like you I don’t believe in the oppression of inequality. I believe inequality in the sense of differences in status, power wealth, talent, intelligence, beauty etc etc is a totally natural, totally acceptable state of affairs. And the reason why it is acceptable is because behind this lies some sort of inherent human equality – equal in the eyes of God I suppose. There is some kind of assumption, which underlies feminism, that if someone has less status or power they are in some way a lesser human being and therefore this imbalance needs to be corrected. I don’t think someone who is less powerful or rich is in anyway a lesser human being and therefore for me this does not need to be corrected. I suspect we are actually singing from the same hymn book – as it were.
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Oh,then we are in agreement.
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I know I may sound like a complete prick here, but I’m honestly asking this question, not to be a prick, but just because the thought occurred: “However equality in anything else only results in catering to the lowest common denominator.” – How does this make you feel about Democracy?
Please note, I don’t currently support any particular governmental model, so I’m not trolling or trying to declare you inhuman, just curious as to the constraints you may place on your logic, or the lack thereof…
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Hey that doesn’t happen to me often!
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Intellectual honesty does this. I take it that you also agree that since equality is neither possible nor desirable except in the sense of human value. That those greater in power and rank have a sort of nobliesse oblige that practically results in more equity than forcing equal outcomes.
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My position on democracy:
https://mises.org/media/1099/Democracy-The-God-that-Failed
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Well I am not sure which country you are from but I think in the UK noblesse oblige got killed off by the state. But I think I would agree in principle. I know a good example of how attempts to create equality have created far greater inequality and that is in the British education system. I could go into detail but basically the well intentioned created a comprehensive system of education which reduced most people to the lowest common denominator and eroded the social mobility which did in fact exist. It was probably one of the most damaging things done to British education.
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Interesting… I’m never sure how to feel about those I meet in this movement, as the personal strength required to balk at social convention and accepted norms is shared by both the bold and the dangerous…
I’d have to read more before I offered any real critique or acceptance though. All I can share is that currently, I’m not sure how well this gels with my personal position on many failings within representational democracy, let alone “true” democracy… Then, most of my viewpoints on government, justice, freedom and social issues stem from my interests in human psychology (evolutionary, mundane and “abnormal” [seriously, don’t get me started])… I tend to see that as the most fundamental keystone in any system of good governance. Understanding and accepting our cognitive flaws is the only path to power structures that minimise our ability to be massively stupid and harmful…
So, all I can say is, whenever a posited solution seems (as this one currently seems to me to be…) to be based on economic and free market concepts, I always feel it’s missing that vital element. Markets crash, and panics happen, and do so for entirely understood psychological reasons…
Still, that temporary place holding presumption won’t stop me from looking further into it, nor from being educated. If anything, it’s more a statement of the minimum hurdle all such newer governmental models have to get over before I’ll be particularly keen on them…
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“Markets crash, and panics happen, and do so for entirely understood psychological reasons…”
I’d argue that these things happen, regardless of the “freedom” inherent in the market.
Markets with more control are just a little better at hiding it and writing the subsequent effects off as being the result of other external factors. Maybe this is a bad example, and I don’t want you to get hung up on it, but Cuba, or example, routinely blames any shortages or economic woes on the US “blockade” of Cuba, which is just so much rubbish. We do have trade sanctions with them (which I think are stupid, but whatever) but there is no “blockade” and never really has been.
The crash happened, either way. It’s just a matter of how well the information disseminates to the people.
Unfortunately, we live in a world where the more power you give someone (or a group of someones) the more apt they are to act in this manner.
In our most recent crash, our government was only able to attempt to cover up the CAUSE of the crash, rather than cover the crash up, itself. But make no mistake – had they the ability to cover up the crash, they would have. In an instant. They tried, even, with the “bailouts”, hoping that would shore things up and make it go away, but those failed (and in my opinion, made things worse).
As it was, they mostly just tried to blame it on 9/11 and some other miscellaneous BS, when in fact, it was a massive failure of not only the regulatory regime, but an actual ENCOURAGEMENT by the government for banks to act in horribly risky ways in an attempt to meet a goal of universal home-ownership, with the implicit backing of government bailouts if things went pear-shaped.
And pear-shaped they went.
My experience has truly been that the more technocratic the “command and control” structure gets in a market, the more apt you are to have shortages, crashes, and economic woes. That’s been pretty much proven, IMHO. This latest housing fiasco is a perfect example.
However, there is a flip side to this coin,k fin and that is the spot where DE-regulating a market too much will lead to economic instability, too. There is a sweet spot, somewhere on that scale. Good luc finding it!
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“You join the navy, then complain about the treatment you get from a guy in an “all-guy” environment and demand that he be held accountable for hurting your sensibilities. How is that fair? Any idea how many guys just have to endure some asshat because that’s the nature of the beast?
I can just see a male sailor going up to his XO and saying, “Sir, Petty Officer Bob is being mean to me. Can you please kick him out of the service?” Yea, that’d go over like a lead balloon!”
Female Privilege?
What else would you call that?
I’d love to have the power to get an asshat boss fired any time I wanted. How powerful that must feel, and then to write that off as being totally normal and not exceptional in any way?
It blows my mind.
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Guys it spawned from marxism, not communism.
Feminism was part and parcel of the new left which was extreme to say the least. They eventually drifted out and re-branded themselves but the marxist foundation remains (the biggest being the nonsense that gender is a social construct.)
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” You want to go be a stay at home wife and mother? Go ahead – I’ve done it and it’s the hardest freaking job on the planet but easily the most rewarding.”
One complaint about an otherwise solid article: This is an absurd claim. It really is. It suggests a real lack of empathy, too.
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