I just have to chime in on the whole #shirtstorm issue, since I do believe this is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard a feminist utter and we all know feminists are capable of breath-taking levels of stupid. But this really does take the cake. From an article published on The Verge :
I don’t care if you landed a spacecraft on a comet, your shirt is sexist and ostracizing
Yesterday the European Space Agency landed the Philae spacecraft on a comet, a powerful step forward for humanity and science alike. However, slightly before the big moment, coverage of the event reminded us how much progress remains to be accomplished back on Earth.
A team of brilliant scientists landed a rocket on a piece of rock hurtling through space! Let’s say it again: a team of brilliant scientists landed a rocket on a piece of rock hurtling through space! An unprecedented, remarkable achievement that rightly left most sane people staring open-mouthed in awe.
But not our little feminist Arielle Duhaime-Ross. Nope. She has bigger things on her mind.
A number of the scientists involved on this incredible project were interviewed in the hours leading to contact by Nature Newsteam. One of those Rosetta scientists was Matt Taylor, who chose to dress, for this special occasion, in a bowling shirt covered in scantily clad caricatures of sexy women in provocative poses.
Oh my god he did WHAT???????
Let’s take a moment to parse some feminists *cough* intelligence *cough* on the matter of clothing choices. You might want to take a Tylenol as a precaution.
What a woman wears has nothing to do with rape culture and thinking it does is part of patriarchy.
Video games in which women are scantily dressed promote rape culture and patriarchy.
Teenage girls should be allowed to wear whatever the hell they want to school and if visible ass cheeks are distracting that is the boy’s problem.
Movies in which teenage girls are scantily dressed promote rape culture and patriarchy.
Yoga pants are appropriate attire at all times.
Women who wear yoga pants are promoting rape culture.
Topless women are progressive and empowering.
Topless women are part of patriarchy.
Tight t-shirts are part of rape culture.
Tight t-shirts have nothing to do with rape culture.
Got that? What a woman wears has nothing to do with patriarchy and rape culture except when it does.
“This is going to be a very long day but a very exciting day,” said Taylor. “I think everyone should enjoy it because we’re making history.”
The subtext is pretty clear, isn’t it? What Taylor is really saying is “I hate women”.
No one knows why Taylor chose to wear that shirt on television during a massive scientific mission. From what we can tell, a woman who goes by the name of Elly Prizeman on Twitter made the shirt for him, and is just as bewildered as he must be that anyone might be upset about her creation. Taylor apologized on Friday during a live ESA broadcast for wearing the shirt, stating that “the shirt I wore this week… I made a big mistake and I offended many people, and I’m very sorry about this.” Still, Taylor’s personal apology doesn’t make up for the fact that no one at ESA saw fit to stop him from representing the Space community with clothing that demeans 50 percent of the world’s population. No one asked him to take it off, because presumably they didn’t think about it. It wasn’t worth worrying about.
A woman made the shirt for him. There’s your first clue, Einstein. That shirt does not offend or demean 50% of the world’s population. It offends joyless, petulant, irrational, victim worshipping feminists cunts like you!
Yeah, yeah, cunt is a bit harsh, but do you know why I like using those words, especially to describe feminists? It’s a way of iterating, forcefully, that their precious feelz matter not one fucking bit to me. Women’s feelings do not matter more than men’s feelings, women do not have the right to walk through life in a state of perpetual comfort, never offended by anything at any time anywhere. It is not wrong to offend women and most women know this already!
It’s feminist bitches who seem to think the world owes them permanent obsequiousness and obedience. Remember this pathetic attention whore? Tweeting out her butthurt over a Dongle joke that wasn’t even addressed to her?
They see a guy like that on TV and they don’t feel welcome.
Bullshit. And even if it were true, guess what buttercup? You are responsible for your own feelings. You do not get to hold other adults responsible for your irrational reactions. No adult is responsible for the feelings of any other adult. That is what being an adult means.
They see a poster of greased up women in a colleague’s office and they know they aren’t respected.
Oh really? Kim Kardashian would like a word with you about body oil, breaking the internet and respect.
They hear comments about “bitches” while out at a bar with fellow science students, and they decide to change majors.
Yeah, it’s not because the training is gruelling, the hours are long, the math is wicked hard, the solutions are not easy and there is one right answer that you get or you don’t. It’s because someone used the word “bitches” at a bar. Yeah that explains it.
Notice how most feminists view women as pathetic mewling simpletons incapable of navigating the tiniest bump or challenge? How strong! How independent! How resilient!
And those are the women who actually make it that far. Those are the few who persevered even when they were discouraged from pursuing degrees in physics, chemistry, and math throughout high school.
Lol! What fucking world do you live in? How much money is spent trying to encourage women to get into STEM fields? It’s mostly wasted because women A) aren’t interested and B) lose interest in working once they have children.
These are the women who forged on despite the fact that they were told by elementary school classmates and the media at large that girls who like science are nerdy and unattractive.
Yeah, the media has no images of cool, sexy scientists at all.
This is the climate women who dream of working at NASA or the ESA come up against, every single day. This shirt is representative of all of that, and the ESA has yet to issue a statement or apologize for that.
Why the fuck should they apologize? Because some stick up the ass feminist shrew witnessed the monumental achievement of a team of men and then made the whole thing about herself and her petty grievances?
The Atlantic journalist Rose Eveleth brilliantly captures what that shirt represents in a community that continues to struggle, if not outright fail, to respect women.
Hey Rose, women are welcome in the tech community and always have been. But you feminists?
Yeah you can fuck off.
The rest of us will stand around and cheer the brilliance of men who set their minds to something. Go Matt! And don’t listen to a thing those feminist killjoys say.
Oh, by the way, Agnes McPhail is what feminism used to be. If you’re looking for equality today, you’ll find it wherever #WomenAgainstFeminism happen to be.
Come to the dark side, Matt. Bring your rockets. And your shirt! We’ll make cookies.
Lots of love,
JB
judgybitch 
I didn’t care for the mans craven apology myself, maybe when others find themselves in a similar situation…
I have been instructed to apologize under threat of termination of employment. So here it is with all due lack of sincerity and respect. I’m so very very sorry.
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Gotta love feminists.
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So…
The intelligent women generally don’t go into the higher IQ fields of work? And the higher-IQ men that occupy those jobs are going to have to constantly be making sure they don’t insult the feminazi now?
Is the human race going to actually be able to advance scientifically any more? or is it just back to the caves?
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Here’s the thing: Feminists have been bitching about sexism in STEM for years, without any proof that there was sexism in STEM. We only knew there were far fewer women in STEM and it was asserted the cause was sexism.
So feminists spend years going off on guys in STEM and Tech crying “misogynist! misogynist! misogynist! misogynist! ” over and over again. And well, after you do that enough, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Five years ago if you asked me if there was sexism in STEM I would have said no without a second thought. Now, I’m not so sure.
I hate to see this happen. And whether it happens depends on whether women choose to side with the whiners or side with men in STEM. If you women think this guy is being treated unfairly, now’s the time to speak up. The career you’ll be saving may be your own.
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I LOVE those two quotes by Agnes McPhail — except that I DO believe in apologizing whenever I’ve caused any kind of hurt or damage. And explanations can be very helpful in some cases. But I think she was probably talking about apologizing when people are just offended by how smart or different you are, and explaining decisions you’ve made that are no one’s business but yours and possibly any loved ones who are intimately affected by those decisions.
Regarding what she said about equality, and thinking about it in relation to what you said in your other post about feminist men as enablers, I don’t see any problem with men and women taking turns being ministering angels and giving backrubs and sympathizing with a spouse or significant other who’s had a lousy day. It’s just also important to recognize when you’re crossing the line into being an enabler who’s holding his or her loved one back from taking life on as a responsible and capable adult. I think women are at least as much at risk of becoming enablers as men.
About clothing, I’m completely in favor of just looking at people as people and not being so judgmental about clothing choices. Another woman or girl may wear something I’d never be caught dead in — not even when I was a slender sixteen year old — but it’s really not that hard for me to relate to her as a human being. A man or boy may wear a t-shirt with scantily-clad women all over it and guess what — I can relate to him as a human being, too.
I agree that it works both ways. If we’re going to stop the slut-shaming, then we need to stop all the bitchy critiques of men’s fashion choices, too.
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First, I do have to say that shirt is inappropiate for work. Enough said.
Next, this guy’s detractors have got themselves all tied up in knots about what could be covered with one short sentence. They are taking every opportunity to condemn male sexuality that presents itself.
What these detractors have failed to consider is that men, in general, have be exposed enough to this irrationality and find it abhorrant. It does beg the question, “How can a man live with somene who fosters such notions?” The simple answer is that , he can”t. OOPS, ladies!
JB, thank you for presenting another side of femininity.
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I think the perfect reply would have been: “This is my shirt in support of slutwalks” lol.
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JB – you are a treasure… Go get the whiners…
It’s obvious that no one understands how these things go – when you’re involved in this type of operation, it’s round the clock. That guy in the shirt had probably been there for several days and came in, and just stayed. So some one came around looking for comments and he gave them one – and women, who have no clue, start freaking out. That is why those types of women are good for one thing, and science isn’t it… Don’t like the truth? Get back into the kitchen….
Women aren’t in STEM for one reason – it’s hard, and requires logical thinking and patience – things that very, very few women have… Sorry ladies… That is the truth… Stop blaming other for your own short-comings…
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It’s terrible. While I wouldn’t personally wear the shirt, it is a bit loud for my tastes, I wouldn’t see it as offensive. It’s quite an interesting pattern actually, and it plays well with his tattoos. It really suits him, he pulls it off very well.
Now, that’s the shirt, let’s discuss the man as a human being. He’s brilliant and skilled. He’d be brilliant and skilled dressed in a wookie costume and he’d be brilliant and skilled dressed in nothing at all.
In my personal experience, I’ve worked in places where the women just don’t understand what is and is not appropriate. What’s worse is that human resources tend to let them get away with inappropriate dress, but if a man showed up not wearing a neck tie, a verbal warning or first written warning would be issued.
Equality my arse. It’s equality for women only. Men don’t exist in the feminist world. It’s not about their brains or their skills, it’s about finding excuses to justify why they are too stupid, lazy or both to undertake certain professions. And as for the “journalist”, that was just terrible reporting. She should be sacked and replaced with someone who can be professional.
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Ironic that this just came in, moments after I came across a memorial booklet for a deceased neighbor. (Neighborhood association archives.) You know the famous story about “a bug” in the computer? Admiral Grace Hopper? Well, my neighbor was her assistant and the second female programmer ever. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper
I have three daughters, my ex and I always encouraged them to be the best they could be. Number One got a biology degree from the University of Colorado. Numbers Two and Three, chemical engineering from the Colorado School of Mines. Number One later got another bachelors degree from the University of Texas in nursing.
And I assure you, not just proud papa speaking, all are at the least attractive, one at age 44 is, well, frankly, hot. So it’s not just the uglies going into the sciences.
Not only have none of them ever felt discriminated against, they know that they held a big advantage over male job applicants because of the efforts of diversifying.
Employers in the sciences are desperate for qualified female engineers, biologists, and scientists due to social pressures to hire them. All a woman needs to do is show up at the door with a degree.
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The stupid of this finally hit home. These harridans are promoting an image of women as incompatible. This will impoverish rather than enchance life.
They know better so this qualifies as stupid.
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Totally. Giving in to bullies only guarantees more bullying.
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With all due respect, it isn’t up to you to decide what isn’t appropriate to wear at the European Space Agency.
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Imagine a world in which there had always been these people.
“Look! Bob just figured out how to make fire!
“So what? He painted naked people in his cave! Death to Bob!”
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You are correct. They didn’t ask me to write a dress code. However, there are certain fundamental concerns that should be considered. Let’s say the the shirt had parrots instead of good looking women. It would still be inappropiate because it would be distracting.
That’s my objection.
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I have heard the word “misogny” so damn much, that I have come to understand that a misognist is just someone who talks back.
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Reblogged this on IL REIETTO and commented:
To feminists, science is about cultivating insanity
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Why did he wear it? Because after a week of getting a rocket to land on a freaking comet, like everyone else in that control center he had only one clean shirt.
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Dude. Best anti-feminist rant ever. I’m still laughing. I think I’ll come back and read some more.
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You are so right. Even with written dress codes that emphasize modesty and appropriateness, some women show up in very short skirts and/or with their tits about to fall out. (Please, Goddess!)
But I pull my dick out just ONE time……………….. kidding, of course.
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I had to do a face palm when I first heard about this. Just add to an already enlightening week for me. After reading about the twitter issue for the past month I dropped my twitter account after writing the idiot asking why are they limiting free speech. Never got a response. But my best moment was when I got banned from 2 sites for asking questions about the nonsense. Those where Salon and HuntingMammoths, I had never visited those 2 leaper colonies for feminist drivel before, and must say I was shocked by the positions they take.
With all of that brain washing and men hating, I can see why this woman got her knickers in a twist, it is time for them to grow a pair of ovaries and harden the fuck up. People do things, with no motive, that means nothing beyond the fact that he probably thought it was a cool shirt that a friend made for him. And he was proud to wear it on a historic day.
I say we all get on Instagram, or twitter (for those still using it) or facelessbook, and show our support for his wardrobe.
Keep up the fight JB, we love it
Ron
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This here, is why feminism is a joke:
http://www.ere.net/2013/03/01/you-dont-know-it-but-women-see-gender-bias-in-your-job-postings/
Read how company or job description that says things like “We are determined to stand apart from the competition” is “bad” because it sounds too masculine. Instead a “better” one is to reword it to sound more touchy-feely :”We are committed to understanding the engineer sector intimately.”
What the hell man. If I owned an engineering firm I would very well bloody want it to be determined as fuck to make it stand apart from the competition, and the implication that women can’t handle that is patronizing to women, and making it sound like exceptionalism and competitiveness is BAD because teh menz.
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The only good thing I saw there is most commenters did not agree with the writer or the out comes. So there are some brain cells left in some people
ron
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You make an interesting point here — women are dressed too revealingly if they expose too much leg or breast — men are revealing too much only if they pull their dick out. Of course, I understand that male fashion doesn’t include stuff like short skirts and plunging necklines — and I know from my husband’s days in an office that he had to be a lot more careful about wearing the right shoes and so on while the women had a lot more leeway.
So I’m not really griping about the work environment for women — but our culture’s attitude about female sexuality can make things kind of difficult for some breastfeeding moms. I’ve probably posted about this on this blog before, so I don’t want to do overkill, it’s kind of a soapbox issue for me.
I’ll just say that not every baby likes having a blanket draped over their head while they nurse, many babies like to nurse a lot more frequently than what our society thinks is normal, nursing for comfort is also a legitimate thing, and with all this in mind, many mothers DO need to get out into society and DON’T find it helpful to be told that they need to find some spot to hide out every time their child has a need to nurse, or sometimes for people to even imply that they’re being an exhibitionist….
So yeah, I’m completely in favor of us all maturing to a place where people can just relate to each other as people and not get all hung up over clothing choices or the amount of skin exposure. Frankly, the young women who dress provocatively just to get attention would probably rethink that if those whose attention they were trying to get just looked into their eyes and talked to them like human beings, and didn’t provide any positive or negative reinforcement for their clothing choices (I’m sure we’ve all heard the saying that kids who act out do so because negative attention is better than nothing).
That’s not to say that one person is responsible for another’s choices — especially if we’re talking about adults. Men aren’t to blame for women’s poor choices anymore than women are too blame for men’s poor choices. We can’t be each other’s savior but we can be each other’s friend.
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That is the coolest shirt I have ever seen.
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Than a woman wears a shirt saying “I bathe in male tears” and you guys go crazy LOL.
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2 different things bum bum, we do not care if you wear a shirt with guys in speedos, we would be flattered. But I am sure “you” would care if we wore one that said “I like making them bitches cry”
Ron
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Very true.
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Let’s make this a critical thinking exercise, shall wee, Bum Bum?
What do the shirts have in common. Well, they are a piece of apparel that we’ve agree to call a shirt.
Other than that, one is a “Hawaiian” style, the other a “Tee” shirt.
One states something misandronist. The other celebrates the human female form. The first is linguistic fact. The second shirt shouldn’t even be controversial, except for some of those said owners of female forms who don’t want you to recognize that they are sexual entities. Unless they do want to be lusted after.
Hypocrites.
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One last thought for Bum Bum. Your shirts statement promotes violence against men, in some form or another. Now I personally do not give a shit about that feminist meme as it just shows how screwed up the whole feminist movement is. What saddens me is that they would promote a position that is not challenged as abuse. While if men took the same stance we would be crucified for not respecting women and promoting abuse of said women.
Oh, but wait, I just realized the error in that statement, feminist do not respect men, so the rational to hurt them is justified.
Silly me
Ron
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What an idiot. Learn to read and think. But I guess that’s beyond your capabilities. LOL
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I would rather have a t shirt that says I bathe in woman’s tears than have a shirt that has near naked women. One pushes the idea that women are sexual objects while the indicates that women are sad sometimes. I am not against violence against women in video games but I am against sexual violence.
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In the world of psychology, that’s what they call Cognitive Dissonance.
I suggest you get some help for that. It must be painful to hold two completely contradictory beliefs at exactly the same time.
If you think that a “near naked” woman is promoting sexual violence, it must kill you to see “near naked” women at a beach, or a swimming pool.
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I doubt these people care what someone wears, myself.
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This is one of the best articles I have ever read.
And this is one of the best non-apologies I have ever read.
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She sounds like a great friend! And it looks like this may even turn into a business for her. If she wants to do it, I think she should go for it. You seriously ought to interview her, Janet! I mean, after you interview the man who helped launch Rosetta. Or in whatever order — whichever one you can talk to first.
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As this thing progresses, I am coming around to your way of thinking. These people were looking for any pretext to negate this achievement. Had he worn the traditional short sleeved white shirt with a pocket protector, they would have objected to that too.
In the face of this pettiness, where is the incetive for achievement?
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I commented on the article as follows
Pretending for a moment that all the very good points, raised when this article was first published, pertaining to the nonsense of gendered words, the poor quality of the research and the fact that the job posts are for different jobs, what would the gender neutral posting look like, the one that will attract both men and women?
Additionally do any of the other STEM educated/trained guys here ever feel like they have to defend themselves about being misogynistic? Whenever I talk to other people about women in STEM issues I always feel it’s important to preface with “I know women are capable of doing this material, my first high school math and physics teachers were women, as were two of my three undergraduate advisors and all of my graduate thesis advisors.” I actually disagree with Janet on this point because I know a lot of women who are capable and qualified to do math and physics and engineering, most of them understand and enjoy the subjects, but like other things even more and treat the STEM stuff as a hobby. My frustration with feminist complaints about womens representation in STEM, is that while the science capable women I knew ended up becoming novelists, a Broadway choreographer, an actress, musicians, doctors and corpoate auditors, no one talks about the science capable guys I knew, of which I’m the only one in STEM. The guys became lawyers, forest rangers, sound/recording engineers, bankers and small business owners, I strongly believe if we want to know why smart women avoid STEM, we should look at why any smart people avoid the field. From personal experience and discussions with the aforementioned women, I’ll give a hint, it isn’t discrimination, it’s more to do with priorities and knowing the difference (to some degree) between career choices and hobbies.
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JB:
So delicious and filling, I’m canceling my restaurant reservation!
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Yeah. I am sorry that his boss ordered him to make an apology. She should have joined him in the press conference (having got his friend to make her a shirt from the same fabric).
Next time, add a kilt. It increases the offense. And show the tatts. What matters is that he did something insanely hard and getting the data back will also be hard Not his shirt.
Unless you are a fool: Women’s studies selects such.
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Or he did not expect an interview. Happened to me and had daugther saying NEXT TIME CALL ME because I would have looked better with a jacket on.
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The woman who brought up the shirt is the one should be apologizing. She ruined the moment of this guy’s life, publicly humiliated him, and took a nice big shit on his accomplishments. She should issue a public apology to him.
As a person going into a STEM field, I find this disheartening. A lot of the top jobs are increasingly already reserved for women (“women will be given special consideration” often amounts to “white men need not apply – we have to make quota”), now I get to walk on egg shells my whole career for fear of offending some princess. Great.
I’s swear feminists actually derive some sick sadistic joy from making the world a little bit more sterile, a little bit more humorless.
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What gets me is that someone at Jezebel said that Rose Eveleth, the science and tech writer who complained about the shirt, was getting death threats — but the tweets they posted as proof of that were only requests for her to kill herself, not threatening statements like, “I know where you live and I’m coming to get you!” Even though I’d never tell anyone to commit suicide, I think it’s pretty important to only call something a threat if it’s an actual threat.
Makes me wonder if someone’s going to hone in on one of the other tweets they quoted, in which someone suggested that sex would help her get better, and hold it up as proof that she’s getting rape threats, too.
http://jezebel.com/woman-gets-death-threats-for-tweeting-about-disliking-a-1658337612
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I wish someone at Jezebel was in STEM, and know how to offer readers the option of viewing the last reply first. Looks like I’ll never know if any sane person replies to the post I made. It takes too long to get through all the 500-some replies. I was trying to scroll through to see how fast I could get to the end, but I kept seeing the same replies over and over and felt like I wasn’t getting anywhere.
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I spent five years doing the eggshell boogie. A healthcare organization with 2/3rds of the employees women, and at least 1/3rd lesbian in management.
I remember well so many times in the break room, or in the minutes before a meeting coming to order, listening to sexual jokes, their dating lives, misandry comments. Me? I just sat there with mouth shut, despite opportunities where I could have made pithy and/or humorous comments.
“Do as I say, not as I do.” Should be the fem motto.
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Womem can be as near naked as they want. It is their body. But his shirt shows he does not respect women and he sees them as sex objects.
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I wonder when the world is going to get tired of people using “getting death threats” (never specific, never identified, and, most of all, never carried out), as the justification for a bad argument. “See, I must be right because ‘death threats’.” The existence of trolls is no basis for truth.
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JB, thank you! This brilliant man should have never apologised to these sub-retarded whiners. I’d tell the whiners to “cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it”, but they are too dumb to build a bridge. BTW, I think the shirt is cute. Scientists can be quite an eccentric lot, and he was just having a bit of fun in celebration of a great achievement. That some dumb cunt dared to ruin HIS moment for him really pissed me off.
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JB, you forgot to mention the brilliant EU-sponsored ad to attract more women to science:
Science, it’s a girl thing!
That’s how to get more women into STEM!
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Well, the maker of that shirt is doing brisk business. At the site that sells them, that particular shirt is completely sold out now. I wanted to buy one for the Man in my life for Christmas– he loves these things!
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OMG that’s so funny! Now we need to make a sexy video of men in thongs shelving books and introducing themselves as “Darien the Librarian” to get more men into library science — but I guess Weird Al Yankovic’s “Conan the Librarian” would be more appealing to the Alpha/Red Pill gang.
I wonder if a lot more men were drawn into teaching young kids after “Kindergarten Cop” came out?
Conan the Librarian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHoHaAYHq8
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Rubbish, it was a woman who chose the pattern and made the shirt. She made the shirt because she obviously liked the pattern.
I think you’re just being ridiculous, but then that’s feminism for you. It takes offence at things it has absolutely no right to take offence at. It spends too much time blaming the wrong people for things that require no blame to be apportioned to.
I think you’ve just got too much time on your hands. Try taking up a hobby. Read a book (that isn’t about blaming men for women being too lazy or apathetic). Try cooking a meal. Go and see a psychiatrist to work through your anger issues.
You never know, you might become a productive member of society.
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Good.
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LOL :)))
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Make it yourself and he’ll love it even more — not that I’m at all experienced with sewing beyond simple mending myself, but I’ve heard of some people picking up a new skill even very late in life, and discovering a hidden talent and a new passion.
I’m so proud of myself for being able to use the scissors on my younger daughter’s hair the other night — not for a serious cut, but just to even it up because we haven’t had haircuts for nearly two years and hers had grown out very unevenly, and we sure can’t afford to go to the hairdresser anytime soon. After many experiences, over the years, of giving myself what seemed like a simple trim and totally botching it up (even bangs), I was scared of marring her gorgeous long hair — but I was slow and careful and it actually turned out okay.
I’ve been inspired by Janet’s post or video — I can’t remember the exact one — where she talks about some simple skills that a wife and mom (or anyone, I’m sure) can take to the bank — such as doing highlights or making wedding cakes — skills that will always be in demand and that you can make a lot of money on in just a few hours a week.
As for me, weddings and hairstyles are such life-and-death matters for most women that I wouldn’t want any kind of responsibility in those areas — but with many people’s growing interest in environmentally-friendly and ethically made clothing (which is going to have to be made to last if the average person is going to be willing to pay so much more for it), I wonder if there will also be a growing demand for people who can make alterations so that the same outfit can be made to fit us as our bodies change over time..
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How on earth do you figure that it means he sees them as sex objects? Are you aware that saying/writing something over and over again does not make it true?
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That says something about who’s really marginalized. At least men telling raunchy jokes will shut up the moment a woman enters the room for fear of being caught. The women, however, say anything they want, as offensive as they want, right in front of male employees, and know they can do it with impunity.
I’m in a field that’s at the overlap between scientific research and tech, so it’s one of those ‘notoriously misogynist’ fields, even though half the people I work with are women. Thankfully most of them are foreign (east Asian or Indian) and so don’t have the chip on their shoulder. But I know a few white American women in the field who do. It’s quite odd, because they work in a field full of almost entirely milquetoast men who couldn’t be offensive if they wanted to be, and yet they talk more about gender issues than their actual scientific research, and it’s like they’re just aching to have some guy say something stereo-typically sexist to them to confirm their prejudices, and it never happens. So they perk their ears up to make sure they hear every little conversation just to make sure if someone does make a faux pas, they don’t miss it. This is the result of pushing ‘the plight of women in misogynistic STEM fields’ narrative: A few of the women in these fields are now bending over backwards and falling over themselves to find an opportunity to get offended.
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You would think it would be self-evident that when you do something that (understandably) pisses off millions of people, as this woman did, that at least a few people who are off their rockers are going to go too far I exhibiting their anger.
I mean, if we just accept that at least 1 in 10,000 people are crazy, then anyone who’s anyone should wholly expect to get death threats. Men get death threats too, just as many in fact. So do MRAs. So what’s the big deal exactly? And how the hell do some people get the idea that being stupid and mean is somehow vindicated by the fact that their stupidity and meanness was enough to piss off a few people who are also stupid and mean? It’s just more evidence that feminists need a remedial course in basic logic.
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They could always try luring men into becoming teachers by pointing out that the high female/male ratio means their love lives will thrive amidst the harems of single female teachers… somehow I don’t see that being well-received though. Don’t want schools to end up like that old TV drama “Boston Public” where all the teachers and admins are sleeping with each other. But hey, at least it’d be a step up from sleeping with the students! Always look on the bright side.
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When I was in elementary school, 1950’s, there was only one male teacher, Mr. Marrow. No proof, but looking back I think he wasn’t prone to take dating advantage of his work environment…….
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“The subtext is pretty clear, isn’t it? What Taylor is really saying is “I hate women”.”
Absolutely, I was thinking that even before your finger hit the ‘I’ key on your keyboard
Great post btw
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This is horrendous. And… if you criticize it, be forewarned that you’d on the same side as basically all the feminists. And also hypocritical because messages about women never ever ever matter, right? If women really want to go into science, then videos like this won’t affect that one way or the other, riiiiight?
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JB, I’m sure you’re going to be hearing about this soon enough, so I’m giving you the head’s up:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/mens-rights-activist-civilization-will-fail-if-women-and-their-are-allowed-to-stay-in-the-workplace/
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I got five seconds in and just couldn’t take any more.
I wonder how badly we’re going to damage they U.S.’s work in STEM fields by bumping eager, qualified men in favor of women who have to be bribed to go into the field?
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“Women’s feelings do not matter more than men’s feelings,…”
Janet, you’ve wildly underestimated the perversity of the value system at work here. I’m surprised you’ve missed that contemporary feminism routinely values women’s feelings over men’s lives The emphasis on street harassment, for example which is largely a matter of feelings, over street violence, which is a matter of injuries and death, and of which men are the primary victims. The emphasis on unsuccessful suicide attempts (a majority of which are by women) versus successful suicides (men die by suicide more than three times as often). The emphasis on “microaggressions” versus actual victims of violence, who are primarily men. The emphasis on workplace harassment over workplace deaths. And on and on and on.
It’s grotesque, but very telling as to what the feminist movement values.
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I’m not too worried about rawstory.
In any case, gender essentialism and the idea that men and women reside in one sense on a bell curve that puts men predominantly on either end of the curve is a conversation worth having.
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I had heard the shirt was unique, made by a woman friend of the engineer… is that not the case?
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Imho Boston Public had one good season, the second one, where Kathy Baker’s abused son cut off her hand for locking him in the basement. It doesn’t sound like it, but it was comedy gold.
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Most feminists are just fine with the left side of that bell curve. Mention to one that the majority of mentally handicapped people are men, and you’ll likely get a snarky reply like “well, we already knew that.” That’s what I usually get. But hypothesize the majority of natural geniuses being male as well? And they’ll turn deadly serious and righteously indignant almost instantaneously. It amazes me, absolutely amazes me, every time, how blind hypocrisy is to itself.
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Women are sex objects though. I’ve never had sex with an object that wasn’t also a woman.
Sex object = woman (if you’re a straight guy at least).
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Yes and he was found out because he preserved it for science!
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I’ve just read through the article. I haven’t watched the video, but I am really curious whether Elam cites any actual figures showing that workplaces become less productive when women enter them.
In my thirty-some years in the workforce, I’ve known some very productive, creative, dynamic, and goal-oriented women and also some who focused more on making sure they didn’t do any more than anyone else and on how they were being treated in comparison to others. I’ve also known some men of both types, so I personally see it as more of a difference between maturity and immaturity than a difference between women and men.
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I recall a group of guys that had a tech start up comment on women in a group like theirs: “Women kill the buzz.” And have you ever noticed all the start ups are started by men? Women’s creativities are quite different from men’s.
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Or it may just be a lack of incentive. If you can live a seven figure salary kind of life by marrying a tech company executive, why not just do that? It’s a lot easier.
Feminists don’t understand the nature of perverse incentives. If they did, they’d see that the surest way to get more women into high positions, both in terms of wealth and power, is not to give women more things, but to take away the special privileges. Get rid of alimony and shame women who aren’t financially self-reliant as bums and losers like we do men, and women will have the incentive to major in STEM fields and prioritize their careers more. Give men equality in custodial rights, and more men will stay home with kids and more women will work and rise up in pecking order. It should be clear as day that supporting men’s rights is the surest (maybe the only) way to move toward women having equal wealth and power. Anyone who opposes custody equality should be told, to her face, that she has no right to complain about the dearth of female CEOs and politicians; the two issues could not be more intertwined. Same goes goes for most gender issues.
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Given that women often enter into fields at different stages in those fields’ industrial development, the only way on could likely verify how gender composition affects productivity would be either by measuring productivity directly (often difficult to do in service sectors) or by performing an actual social experiment whereby one hires more women in order to see how it affects productivity, rather than using retrospective data.
I’m going to remain incredulous on that matter, for the sake of consistency. I didn’t believe people when they said women were more productive than men for the same reason (correlation doesn’t equal causation), so I’ll wouldn’t believe the converse of that theory until I see a convincing study.
I can imagine that affirmative action programs could have that effect though by leading to less qualified women getting jobs they otherwise wouldn’t get, perhaps leading to disparities between male and female productivity; the extent of affirmative action hiring varies from field to field I’m sure though.
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Yes, masculine creative energy and feminine creative energy are very different. Of course, every person (female or male) has his or her own unique mixture of both kinds of energy, with more men leaning towards the masculine side and more women leaning towards the feminine side — but also with a minority of men learning towards the feminine side and a minority of women leaning towards the masculine side (some of the latter group may identify as transgender, but some are very happy to continue identifying with their biological sex while enjoying many activities traditionally preferred by the other gender; for heterosexuals, I’ve heard that this can be quite cool because following your passions also leads you to fit in quite well with the opposite sex).
With regard to the opposite gender killing the creative buzz, I think it’s true that projects can sometimes flow a lot faster when we’re working with those whose minds work more similarly to our own. At the same time, only working with people like us can cause us to miss out on the viewpoints of those different enough from us to see something from a completely new angle. If we focus in on the beginning awkwardness of communicating with those who can’t read our minds, and decide that being inclusive is just a time-waster, maybe shutting out the oddballs will enable us to keep working and producing at break-neck speed, but maybe we’ll also end up seeing that we wasted a lot of time and resources working in a direction that was counter-productive in the long run.
I personally find it frustrating working with groups that veer too far in either direction. A balance between masculine and feminine is best, in my opinion. Groups with too much masculine energy can end up with just a few of the most forceful people (or sometimes even just one very forceful person) taking over and monopolizing the conversation, directing the course of action, and shutting down anyone who disagrees with them. Groups with too much feminine energy can end up with a lot of tedium as a lot of time may be spent coaxing those who really would rather just listen and don’t have a strong opinion on an issue to say their piece about stuff they haven’t really thought about and don’t really care about, while those with strong opinions may be continually cut off in the interests of making sure that everyone feels safe emotionally.
While I don’t favor pushing anyone with no interest or inclination towards a certain field into that field — when diverse people actually ARE interested in the same field, I think learning to work together can yield very positive results in the long run, even if it slows things down at the beginning.
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Teams of both women and men are more productive when it comes to making more women and men.
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You’re right. The shirt was handmade for him by a close friend, Elly Prizeman. Which makes it doubly sickening. She made this shirt for her friend, he was honoring her by wearing it on such an important day, and the feminists crapped all over both gestures of friendship.
Disgusting.
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Agnes McPhail is what feminism used to be, which is to say, less developed. It was still “Socialism in panties.”
She was not only a socialist, but anti-marriage as well, so all I really see from her is the budding of modern day feminism. There’s no reason to believe she would think feminism had gone too far once it hit the 70s or 80s. I would expect her to be in full support of it. The only thing I could think would stop her would be if she held onto her Christian faith at least in the case of abortion, since they generally oppose the murder of unborn children.
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I have seen argued even in Slate’s XX blog that if women want to further their careers then they should marry down. Some are realizing that it is hypergamy that stops their career prospects because why men are unwilling to compromise their careers for their partners. Of course, they still blame and shift responsibility to higher status men rather than admit their hypergamous behavior is at fault.
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If it’s wrong for young girls to dress like sluts because they sexualize the environment, create bad expectations and push other young girls to be sexual before their time:
http://judgybitch.com/2013/01/10/you-let-this-slide-are-you-fucking-crazy-where-is-your-common-sense/
http://judgybitch.com/2013/01/18/slut-shaming-is-just-another-way-of-calling-out-attention-whores-and-yes-thats-a-good-thing/
http://judgybitch.com/2013/01/20/slut-shaming-part-two-yes-humiliation-works/
why is it not wrong for Dr. Taylor to wear, not only in his official capacity but also where lots of young girls could see him, images of girls…dressed just like sluts?
Seriously, if I’m missing something please let me know. Thanks!
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Because Dr. Taylor is an adult and he is working in a scientific with other adults who are expected to control their own emotional reactions and not act like hysterical nitwits?
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So do you think that the people who engage in slut-shaming are also hysterical nitwits?
I’m in the camp that nobody — male or female — should be shamed for their clothing choices. I realize that some feminists would say, “no shaming of women,” while shaming Dr. Taylor, and that’s wrong — but of course it’s also wrong to go to the other extreme.
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Susan I hope that you can agree there is a huge difference between wearing sexually revealing clothing designed to provoke an involuntary physical response and wearing a golf shirt with scantily clad human forms.
The equivalent to Matt’s shirt is a female scientist wearing a t-shirt with a half-naked David Beckham on the front (no shortage of those images) as opposed to showing up at work half naked herself.
If Matt was wearing asschaps and sporting a bare chest, there would be some claim to the idea that he was dressed inappropriately.
As it stands, he wore an awesome shirt his female friend made for him and some feminist nitwits got hysterical.
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Janet, I agree that the two different things — wearing a shirt with revealing pictures, versus wearing revealing attire oneself — aren’t really comparable in terms of their ability to excite men.
At the same time, my own husband managed to work for many years in office environments with some scantily-clad women, and he was able to get on with his work and treat them respectfully. I kind of think everyone needs to get past being so obsessed over what other people are wearing.
In my own intimate relationships, I express any concerns I have about clothing choices — but when it comes to interacting with people I’m not close to, I just try to assume the best about them and that works pretty well for me. My teen daughter doesn’t like the revealing clothes that some of her classmates choose to wear, but she still feels like they have a right to their choice AND a right to be treated with respect.
I actually think that if more people dropped the slut-shaming, it would rob some of the more extreme cases of skimpy dressing of a great deal of their fire. I think some of them do it just to get a rise out of people (and I’m not just talking about erections — I mean they want to keep the clothing discussion going).
If everyone stopped taking any interest in what they were wearing, maybe at first they’d go to the extreme of complete nudity, which would just get them arrested…but if ultimately no one cared all that much and just looked them in the eyes and wanted to talk about interesting stuff, maybe they’d eventually realize that if they want people to take an interest in them, they need to actually be an interesting person.
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My husband has a different way of dealing with scantily clad interns. He ignores them completely. They get zero feedback or mentoring from him during group activities and he generally gives them at least one withering look of contempt and lo and behold they show up in appropriate attire pretty quickly.
All this hysteria whipped up by feminists means that no young woman ever has or ever will benefit from my husband’s professional experience. He one-on-one mentors only men. Women are just not worth the risks, and almost all the other managers feel the same.
And oddly enough, even the female managers hate working with female interns. The drama and bullshit is just not worth it. Most of the women he works with have very strong quant skills and do a lot of technical work, so that generally puts most of the women at a disadvantage. Most of them have good quant skills but not good enough to take on deep analytical work. The guys tend to have that skill set so men in general have a much easier time getting mentored.
Without a strong mentor reference, these interns have little chance of moving up.
So thanks, feminists, you’ve basically screwed well meaning,decent young women out of getting the necessary professional experience they need to advance.
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“My husband has a different way of dealing with scantily clad interns. He ignores them completely. They get zero feedback or mentoring from him during group activities and he generally gives them at least one withering look of contempt and lo and behold they show up in appropriate attire pretty quickly.”
Your husband’s pretty smart.
“All this hysteria whipped up by feminists means that no young woman ever has or ever will benefit from my husband’s professional experience. He one-on-one mentors only men. Women are just not worth the risks, and almost all the other managers feel the same.”
So for a young woman wanting to get good mentoring in a field like your husband’s — in addition to dressing suitably, what’s the best way for her to communicate to potential mentors that she’s really serious about wanting to learn the job and also that she’s absolutely not interested in creating any drama?
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What an excellent question, Susan. I have no idea. “If you wish to record all of our meetings for your own protection, I understand and consent to that 100%” might work.
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That sounds like a great idea! I’ll keep in in mind for my daughters.
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P.S. I think it would be a great idea to make a post for young women wanting to succeed in STEM. Maybe your husband and some other guys here have some ideas about how they can get skilled people like him/them to mentor them.
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Mmmm…not too long ago you didn’t seem to draw such a bright line between the revealing and the “merely” inappropriate.
http://judgybitch.com/2013/02/16/schrodingers-slut-or-why-it-matters-what-you-wear/
Again, have I missed something in your distinctions?
Bear in mind also my other remark about young girls seeing it. Dr. Taylor wasn’t (just?) wearing that shirt around the scientific facility. He was wearing it on TV while representing the European Space Agency.
As I’m sure we all know, many offices have two kinds of dress codes: One that’s more casual, when everyone’s just working around the place and no clients/mucky-mucks from HQ/government officials/other VIPs are expected. And another, much more formal, for visiting client sites, receiving important (or even any) outsiders…and making public appearances.
Good implicit point about radical feminists’ simultaneous dumping on both “slut-shaming” *and* Dr. Taylor’s wearing a shirt bearing…”slutty” looking women.
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Yeah no. If you don’t see a difference between wearing a tshirt with someone in asschaps vs. actually wearing asschaps we have no common ground.
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